Discussion About Legacy, Genetics, Descendents

Thank you, @anon88243269 :heart:

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I havenā€™t read everything here yet, but it is great to have a varied discussion of opinions and beliefs. Thanks to all

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Thankyou Biffa Bacon.

I will enjoy reading this. I was definitely ā€˜bornā€™ with a spiritual gift and I have worked on it.

I do know I had a gt Aunt who could see the dead and communicate with them, that is all I know about my magical inheritance.

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I think itā€™s worth to mention that I would probably go for a somewhat practicing (or theoretically educated) person as a partner, if my way didnā€™t brought me to my now S.O. :thinking:
Some things are just less ā€œweirdā€ that way :smiley:

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Itā€™s a custom honoured in every pagan part of the world, also in Judaism where a lengthy bloodline was given for Jesus (I mention that only to show itā€™s not purely a pagan thing, monotheistic faiths have it as well).

There is a famous Hindu story about the son of a butcher who is called to worship Shiva, and he wants to renounce his trade but he is told his dharma (duty related to situation of birth) is more important, and that he best pleases Shiva by fulfilling his trade, and we know that caste in India is inherited, the son or daughter of a Brahmin is a Brahmin, the son or daughter of a Kshatriya is also of that caste, etc.

Moving west, in Egypt they took matrilineal bloodline (which tends to breed inwards, because the womb, not the seed, is the carrier of power, whilst the kings remained mostly male) to extreme degrees and inbred themselves to the point of several dynasties collapsing because of it, marrying sisters so the male ruler could also have that sacred womb as the mother of the next King.

We can point and laugh but huge chunks of our occult lore and working methods come from them.

The gods of Egypt have clear familiar relationships, as do the gods or all pagan pantheons, the Norse gods have a clear bloodline, so do the Greek and Romans, and even in Christianity (which again I state to cover the universality of this concept) Mary was actually the ā€œimmaculate conceptionā€ - conceived without sin - in order that her bloodline inherited by Jesus (who only had one human parent) would be pure.

Popping south a bit, African gods are networks of families, in some cases marrying into their own family, again referencing the power of bloodline, and that certain forms can only manifest with pre-existing genetic combinations.

West again, the Aztec gods are linked by family, and many north American tribes had ancestral shamans, ancestral chiefs, all about the concept that the parents are the framework for the child.

Well, soā€™s magick, changing reality to comply with will etcā€¦ I mean if you want to go the self effacing route thatā€™s not something I can advise on. :smiley:

Will these be improved if only the thoughtless breed, and only their genes are carried forward?

Given that all pagan pantheons are linked by blood (including many who think their cultureā€™s first founders were sons and in some cases daughters of those gods) and that they all consider (even the monotheistic faiths) that the nature of the parent dictates the child, what will the future be, for animal, for nature, for everyone, if the most caring and selfless do not raise children to inherit those values?

And, yes, the most spiritually ascended, who have a duty to the least spiritual, just as everything in the world is interconnected?

All the same arguments can be made for burning all books:

  • it is selfish to think of oneā€™s own pleasure and education when others are starving and wells could be dug for them

  • it is greedy to spend money on feeding oneā€™s mind in this way, when other people canā€™t even read, or canā€™t read well enough to enjoy it

  • it is narcissism to want to be an educated person when it is obvious not all others are educated

  • books use up valuable resources and encourage people to hoard possessions, which leads to materialitic mindset (kindles are no different, all the rare earth elements in them and all the plastrics and circuity etc)

  • authors are a flaky lot and those who wish to join them are refusing to really help others, they want to mentally masturbate things (a metaphor used by Stephen King) onto a page

  • there are more important things in life than escapismā€¦

If we race to the bottom like that, there is always someone in need or doing worse, so, who has the right to do anything until everyone is fixed?

Ancestor worship is another ancient thing, not only amaong pagans, Jews name a child after a deceased family member, also found in the Xian custom of saints, and praying for the deadā€¦ either everyone in the world is wrong, or, those ā€œdead people who are going to reincarnate anywayā€ actually matter.

Not to mention that, again many faiths (including the still-ongoing ancient, and very different Hindu and Jewish faiths) believe a person will reincarnate later into their own bloodline.

Kinda fucked if they canā€™t because of 21st century first-world-problems angst! :astonished:

But (at risk of being controversial, and in the spirit of debate) you value yourself enough to say you have the right to end it? :thinking:

Iā€™m not saying what you should or must finally do, just asking people to consider what it means if they choose this.

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I can make it a new topic, split this out, if you prefer? :+1:

All forums come with the Split Topic function because it happens, never a problem to do. :smiley:

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No, it;s all fine. I just need to start at the top and read through and absorb it all.

It kind of boomed whilst I was asleep. :smiley:

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No, but it is a big factor and it matters. Thatā€™s all. And of all other kind of memory traits be it will, stability of mind, purity of body-mind, strength of character all this can be made/learned but the genetic memory is not that malleable and that is another reason that the good oneā€™s passes on.

I doubt ( can be wrong here ) that I inherited blood line from some extreme spiritual family, certainly not from my parents but still I am as spiritual as one can be and I am Quite good at what I practice. SO, Genetics- family lineage is one factor out of many.

Yes, it should not be the sole factor. I wasnā€™t parented well, to put it mildly so NOT going to be a parent. Even if I shift to Mantak Chiaā€™s version of Sexual life and have sex like crazy rabbit for decades , still not going to Bring another innocent life into this cruel world. I know very well How cruel it can be even for Children. And if it is someone you are extremely attached to it is GONNA HURT REALLY BAD.

As for to please dead people, well have already done enough for them , more than they ever did for me. Any offering You do to ancestors is actually an offering to 1- where ever that ancestor is, and will get benefit from it and 2- The genetic material in your body linked to that ancestor, so many genetic friction will get smoothed by that offering and in practical terms , a lot of problem will go away from your life.

So , technically you are offering your ancestors for your own good. And in my opinion it is doing more than enough for them.

AT the end of the day do what ever you feel like it. Itā€™s your decision and only you will know that if it is worth it. Just keep in mind that having a child is a 20 year old project. Give some serious thought before starting it.!

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Donā€™t have to take the burden of the World or even the burden of your ancestors. First look after yourself. :slight_smile:

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Thatā€™s actually really interesting. Iā€™d be curious to know if it ends up being permanent or if itā€™s being enforced and will revert once you procreate. I know a few gay guys that would kill be straight and have families of their own.

Unrelated. I read that people are generally unable to progress very far in spiritual alchemy unless they are married, thus creating a bonding of the male and female aspects. Itā€™s not even about doing rituals with the other person, just the simple fact of a spiritual union and mutual understanding.

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There is truth to this. One of the highest divinities is the sex love energy produced between a Man and Woman.

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In Slavic mythology, the Dziadys (ancestors) only reincarnate in their own descendants. This isnā€™t about valuing yourself, but honoring generations of people who have created you and given you life.

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Anyway back on topic, because the little tiff a couple posts up was overly exciting to readā€¦

I agree with @Lady_Eva itā€™s an odd sensation, but since i got deeper into magick I only want to ā€œprocreateā€ or make a family. This could be a normal animal instinct for all I know, but itā€™s hard to say. It almost seems like Iā€™m missing out on the next phase of my ascent If you will, some missing emotional growth. It scares me though, because I know to accept that is to one day die to give way to the new.

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I see your POV and I support it if thatā€™s what serves you best. But for meā€¦nah, Iā€™ll pass. For several reasons. The 3 most basic are:

  1. Iā€™m too selfish to prioritize someone elseā€™s needs and wishes over mine. I refuse to make someone else the center of my universe. A child is a limitation for me. And the limitations I already have are enough, I donā€™t need more. And no, Iā€™m not ashamed to admit it, Iā€™d be ashamed to pretend that this would make me happy. It wonā€™t.
  2. No matter how cute it could be to have a spawn of my own, the genes that I, as his/her mother, would pass arenā€™t nearly ok-ish. I have the duty to protect a future human being from that.
  3. The need to express myself in my house without having to find a bunch of excuses is vital. Freedom, for me, is vital. No, you wonā€™t find a flag with a sigil on my wall, but I refuse to hide from a (potentially) lifelong partner. That being said, I donā€™t wish to have a lifelong partner. People tire me too fast. I could be a single mother but, coming from a divorced family, I know I could not support a child properly in any way.

As Iā€™m the last of my name, I was troubling myself too much as a child, how will I find a husband that will accept my name to be given to our children. I even had a plan to find someone who has a brother, who has children already! lolz
Then several years later, my grandma told me ā€œPft, big deal, you donā€™t even have an importand nameā€. And you know, a weight got lift from my chest from that day. Indeed, my name is no more special than any other name out there.
And I donā€™t have to pass it along with my genes to anyone.

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Same here. I discussed this with my dad, not long ago :smiley: (Which is funny because I donā€™t even wear his name)

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O.K, I am with @Lady_Eva now on this. Planning on going back in time and spreading the message to all the cave dwellers that unless you are As HOT as lady eva, you are not allowed to breed, for obvious reasons.

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lolz same!

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In my case (and probably others), Iā€™m simply not in a financial or mental state to properly raise a child.

Kids are really expensive, plain and simple. Parents tend to spend up to $12,500 a year on diapers alone. I myself donā€™t have a job where I can accommodate for that kind of money on my own.

As for mental, Iā€™ve always been apprehensive around babies because theyā€™re really loud. When they start crying, I easily become overwhelmed with sensory overload, which is very common in people on the autism spectrum. There may be a way to overcome this, but Iā€™ve yet to find it. Also, the thought that the slightest screw up can really damage your child (or make them become the next Hitler) is beyond stressful.

There may come a time later in life where I might be ready, but now is not that time.

Also, I have cousins who have kids, so theyā€™ve already carried the gene so to speak xD

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This is partially where one derives a sense of great pride and accomplishment! In shamanick practices, often those with the deepest wounds become the most powerful in their magick and/or spiritual practices.

Try raising a Son of Belial :heart_eyes_cat:

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I have a mental illness. As much as my family nags at me to get married and have children, the last thing I want to do is pass it down and have the child suffer (either from firsthand experience or from having me as a mother). In the meantime, Iā€™ll seek ways to contribute to the physical plane.