This came up in a discussion with Zoe in another thread and I wanted get peoples views, and it would be great to get Erics if he sees it.
I think there are a number of cherished fears for people who are working or thinking of working with the LHP. One that has came up a lot already is karmic repercussion for harming others. I’m surprised the issue of involuntary possession hasnt came up more yet.
Its not just Hollywood that works up a story on demonic possession, the Catholic church is still pretty big on it too. The Roman rite of exorcism is still taught (though not to many) and still used. You dont have to look far in either popular culture the internet or indeed the bible to find stories about possession…
So how much of a risk is this in practical evocation? Is the person inviolate unless they offer to be a ‘horse’ for a spirit? Can we get an evocation ‘wrong’ and be at risk of possession or as Zoe put it undue influence and manipulation by an entity? Are their different risks for different levels and types of spiritual being? My intuition is that we would need to open ourselves voluntarily for this to occur, but then there does seem to be accounts of this happening involuntarily to some.
@necromaster…I agree. Years ago I was involved with the Church. That is all I did…get rid of them…lol…I found from first hand experience that even those I found were delivered, and many of them were very spectacular, after a while many of them allowed the spirit to come back in because they were so comfortable with it being there in the first place because of the years it was there…I feel that any time you see possession, it is allowed because of some issue in that person’s life. Heck, after what I have seen, I feel that most everyone is walking around with some friends within them, so it ain’t no big thing (as the old song goes).
Now, I am not saying that most people flat out even know they are letting this stuff in, it is just they mostly walk in fear and hold all kinds of doors open…anyway…I did a couple of radio talks with Malachi Martin…and guy knew more than he was letting on… If you google him you will find some interesting stuff concerning the illuminati…smile. I believe that there are many spirits that dwell in the place between the skull and the spine where a vibrational situation exists that will allow for the communication factor between the astral and physical. This is taught somewhat within the Rosicrucians organization.
But I believe the only way that possession comes is because of fear. In the case of the magician, if possessed, he/she is showing fear and does not need to be in that position at that time and the spirit sees it and says, possession is deserved and you do not merit being here calling on me if you do not know what you are talking about…smile. But that is just my own experience…and I am sure others may disagree with some, or all.
I remember reading that we are all born with a certian amount of spirits in our body and our actions can either replace then or build affinity with them.
BP
Pentecostals are all about the uninvited Beelzebubs too. A fortunate affect of them deciding I was possessed and having exorcisms performed on me at a young age was me knowing that I faked the reactions they wanted in the exorcisms in order to end them, and knowing and that I was hiding that ‘something’ in me that they were afraid of that made them decide I was possessed. I was quite young when this happened and lived many years thinking I was demon possessed and becoming comfortable with that and working within that knowledge before I ran off in the teenage years and began to educate myself on these subjects. Anywhoo enough rambling about that…
My experience has been that demons come in when they’re invited, but that what they consider an invitation isn’t always what we consider an invitation. Some may disagree, that has just been my experience so far. I think that a person who has a strong mind and is well in control of themselves and their destiny will not accidentally invite a demon in by being unaware of making the invitation. A dabbler? Maybe. A complete fool? Most likely.
HOWEVER, I have not worked with the stronger demons that EA has given instruction on in the BoA, and don’t have any experienced opinion to give on whether or not those would take it upon themselves to take over if evoked.
[quote=“Maxx, post:3, topic:251”]@necromaster…I agree. Years ago I was involved with the Church. That is all I did…get rid of them…lol…I found from first hand experience that even those I found were delivered, and many of them were very spectacular, after a while many of them allowed the spirit to come back in because they were so comfortable with it being there in the first place because of the years it was there…I feel that any time you see possession, it is allowed because of some issue in that person’s life. Heck, after what I have seen, I feel that most everyone is walking around with some friends within them, so it ain’t no big thing (as the old song goes).
Now, I am not saying that most people flat out even know they are letting this stuff in, it is just they mostly walk in fear and hold all kinds of doors open…anyway…I did a couple of radio talks with Malachi Martin…and guy knew more than he was letting on… If you google him you will find some interesting stuff concerning the illuminati…smile. I believe that there are many spirits that dwell in the place between the skull and the spine where a vibrational situation exists that will allow for the communication factor between the astral and physical. This is taught somewhat within the Rosicrucians organization.
But I believe the only way that possession comes is because of fear. In the case of the magician, if possessed, he/she is showing fear and does not need to be in that position at that time and the spirit sees it and says, possession is deserved and you do not merit being here calling on me if you do not know what you are talking about…smile. But that is just my own experience…and I am sure others may disagree with some, or all.
[quote=“Timothy, post:7, topic:251”]Robert Bruce is the most experienced demonic exorcist I know, and has suffered physical possession himself.
He has told me several times that the victim must give permission for it to occur- albeit often occurs unconsciously.
Coincidentally - synchronistically - E.A. and I were speaking on the telephone yesterday evening, and I brought up the topic of malicious spirits.
He articulated the point that devout Christians have such a high rate of possession, because they believe they deserve punishment for their sins.
Their shame invites the pain.
Your will controls your reality.[/quote]
that makes complete sense. those of which ‘suffer’ from possession usually are the ones who have the hardest time conforming to the rules and regulations of the church, so they have the most guilt. another prime example of why conformity isn’t always a good thing…
So the consensus seems to be that spirits cannot force entry so to speak they must be invited. Though the idea that there can be an unconscious invitation made (thanks Timothy Maxx and Ridgerunner) still seems somewhat worrying. It may be present issues of guilt and an unconscious wish for punishment. But it could also be past life (for those of us who believe in this) issues intruding and being enacted…
Thats the problem with the unconscious - you dont know what the hell its up to!
For an even sicker approach, you will find mentioned over 5 times in the xtian bible the subject of curses passed down through the third and fourth generation, meaning spirit possession.
Hi there Neophyte…and other people of course
Well Ill humbly add my two cents. A couple years ago I was convinced the same, that you had to give your permission in order to such thing as an unrequested possesion to happen. Now I think different. Many of the people here are much knowledgeable, and as serious practicioners of the occult, whether it be RHP,LHP, etc, they DO HAVE spiritual protection with them. I dont think thats the case of many of the people out there. (= people who are not into this) I also believe that due to some mental conditions, and extreme, prolonged states of stress and suffering can tear down somebodys spiritual barriers, , so to speak, even for briefs moments.
And I also believe, although when the word “possesion” the first thing coming to peoples mind is "demonic, demonic!!", (hollywoods to blame??), they are a lot of other entities/spiritual energies that are NOT of demonic origin and are capable of possesing a human being.
Good point mundopincha, yes im sure there are other disincarnate entities other than demonic that could possess people. I guess that opens up the whole debate about what the word ‘demon’ even means mind you.
And also very valid about people having spiritual protection. One of the things I understood about ‘conventional’ occult orders is that recieving initiation into them gave you a degree of spiritual protection from the forces they worked with. I bet a lot of practitioners have evolved their own protective alliances over time, but yes as you say over time, not instantaneously.
Seems like attachment is the cause of possession then? Attachment to the knowledge that you are unclean in the sight of gawd for the poor Christians.
I would definitely think you could surrender control of your body to a spirit, whether Angelic or Demonic or other. For a temporary time, the question back would be about attachment. If you become attached to the power, and knowledge of that spirit you may have trouble taking back your will and becoming you again.
[quote=“Maxx, post:12, topic:251”]For an even sicker approach, you will find mentioned over 5 times in the xtian bible the subject of curses passed down through the third and fourth generation, meaning spirit possession.
Maxx[/quote]
That is one of many things that turned me off from that religion. God or whatnot cursing a man for something he did and the poor children and grand maybe great grand children suffering because of it. How is that righteous or good so to speak? Punishing innocent people because of someone else mistakes. So fucked up.
[quote=“blackpheonix, post:4, topic:251”]I remember reading that we are all born with a certian amount of spirits in our body and our actions can either replace then or build affinity with them.
BP[/quote]
flygia, I think their called in nordic magick
I remember reading “Apophenia” from Peter Carroll, he talked about the inexistence of oneself and the existence of manyself… It kind of appeared to me that it was like taking the step foward if a human is born along some spirit, “surrender to them” instead of trying to fit yourself in the image of “I’m this and only this person”.
Perhaps many possesions are just really strong represion and, I’m not talking pyscholgically, but spiritual represion, like fiting an entity that is there.
anyway I don’t have enought positive experience with entities so it’s just an idea, and it could be completely wrong, is not something I believe either, just a thought
