Recently, I had a conversation with a guy, who says, that everything - is it somewhere else or on BALG - compared to Golden Dawn system and Crowley’s work is an unworthy piece of crap. He says that Winterfield ignoring LBRP and not using ceremonial daggers is something that disqualify such practises. He says I should try do meditate for like half a year then read thousand of Crowley’s books to fully understand what I am doing, but let’s just say, this whole equipment, altars, ceremonial robes, good daggers are not only expensive, but also a bit hard to obtain. He also interviewed me about my successes and said I had nearly none. Mainly, that is the case. Having done a handful of rituals from Winterfield’s book I am still awainting the results which, as I understand, may or may not come. Then, because I haven’t that much time I must decide whether to go into this enormous pile of Crowley’s books or to just dump it.
TL;DR
Is this really any need to cover all those books of Crowley and his friends to get something done and everything else is caused by human ability to deceive reality? Share your experiences if you can and want.
Peace
Crowley was an incredibly intelligent magician and his books are worth reading, IMO. That being said, there are many different styles of magick out there and his is only one of many working traditions.
The short answer is no. If you want an antidote to that viewpoint, read something by Joe Lisiewski
Well, he had his own weirdness with his insistence of the reality of the “slingshot” effect. Basically my advice is to just read as much as you can by every author and piece together through critical thinking and personal experimentation what works best for you.
That he does. But if you want a bucket of cold water thrown on the idea that Crowley and company are hot shit on a stick, that will do it.
Book 4 & Star Ruby.
After that, the rest of his work is supplemental.
Not a huge fan of the Book of the Law.
People often find it difficult to become open to new ideas when they have invested a large amount of time and energy into a system of belief. Modern innovations in magick can be challenging to some. If they prefer to work with more traditional approaches, that is their choice. There are many ways to get magick working, and ultimately getting results is what matters.
Now, this individual may have taken particular offense to Winterfield’s book, given his opinion that Crowley’s Goetic work was, to put it mildly, lacking. Some seem to regard Crowley as more of a Jesus figure than a well-known 20th century occultist, whose words are taken as dogmatic Truth. He did start his own religion, so I suppose this is to be expected.
As for the claim that loads of paraphernalia is required, experience has proven to me time and time again that this is false. I’ve evoked the demons many times using the methods and principles outlined by Winterfield, and I can definitively say that the magick works, and quite well at that. The demons respond well, and the results are delightful.
Some would insist that without years and years of initiations into some boys-club “magickal order,” where knowledge is spoon-fed to you as dictated by some self-proclaimed “grand magus witchlord,” then you cannot attain to the real magick or “truth.”
Utter nonsense.
The workings of magick, secrets that have been well-hidden for millennia, are being made available to the public for pennies compared to their value. Some occultists whose fragile egos depend upon being in a super secret frat may not like this. I consider myself very lucky that fewer and fewer seem to share this attitude today, as otherwise such powerful secrets may never have become known to me.
Feel free to study Crowley and other historical occult documents in your leisure, but for learning how to actually do magick, I’d say there’s no better source than the masterpieces of modern, practical magick being written today.
Seriously, beyond academic merit, some elitist prick that takes a dump on you, and others for not adhering to certain practice … is … sadly, most likely an impotent arm chair magician that prefers fit over function … betcha 10 bucks he owns an iPhone too.
You probably can’t just blow sand from your hand and claim that’s enough to bring Asmodeus to your temple, but that’s not what we do right?
No. There’s preparation, perhaps cleansing, banishing (sometimes), a circle (real or otherwise), a sigil, etc.
Sounds like black magick to me man.
Spirits don’t care if your penis-wand is yellow and has an iron core.
The LBRP is actually a flare in the astral that says: “Hey look at me, I’m a magician and about to contact yawl.” … that’s REALLY all it is from the point of view of external effects.
Internally, a banishing ritual, not necessarily the LBRP brings in elements at cardinal points, to indicate that you are the central balance, you are the Operator. The LBRP serves as a great way to say goodbye to your mundane life and hello to your magickal self. To think it will banish monsters away is nonsense.
There’s no authority in magick, and even the BOSS of The Golden Dawn will say this if he expects to maintain his title and income.
So with no respect whatsoever to this dude that fed you that garbage, dude’s a douche.
Only YOU know when you finally make contact with spirits. No penis wands necessary. Use a fucking dagger for crying out loud if you insist on using tools. Little paint-by-the-numbers penis wands can stay with the GD folk quite frankly.
Trust yourself.
Ra
Could you PM me? I would be grateful if you could answer some more private questions. Thanks
You have no idea how much I enjoyed your post. Love it!
Btw, my perceived aggression was not directed at you. Every time I go through GD material, and I own their large hard cover “bible” that cost me hundreds of dollars, i get frustrated with all the extra crap that seems designed to bog people down.
It is ceremonial magick after all! “Ceremony” doesn’t always make sense.
Also I call it a penis wand because of the pinecone shaped tip and clear association the the penis. Lol.
I’ll PM you but there’s really nothing secret i can tell you nor are there any stupid questions you can ask. That’s why the forum exists.
It’s a very positive community for the most part. It’s up to you to wade through and sort out the fool’s gold from the actual gold.
Love your forum name btw. The scent of burning rose …
The LBRP in many source materials was used preceding the Bornless Ritual, which then preceds an exorcism. It clears a ritual space for magick and attunes you to the elemental energies of the universe.
As it was mentioned above, it absolutely lights you up on the astral plane. If your intention is not coming in tune with those energies for spiritual practice or for an in depth ritual, and you’re concerned primarily with a practical result, you can absolutely skip it. Even if you are performing an elaborate ritual, it’s not needed
Winterfield uses a modified Kaballistic Cross ritual, and the method for me worked great, especially the sensory preparation because those evocation keys in Demons of Magick are crucial to the experience of the demons in that system.
Golden Dawn is an amazing system for self transformation, but in my experience it takes some weeding out to make it work on a personal level. I’d recommend Lyam Thomas Christopher’s book Kabbalah, Magic & the Great Work of Self Transformation for a course in REALLY becoming an adept in that system. If that doesn’t interest you, that’s okay! Don’t sweat the dogma. Magick works if you have the desire and can get the basic principles of the subconscious mind down (cast it and forget it, and be grateful, etc).