Coincidence or Supernatural

I think it’s appropriate to preference this post by saying I consider myself an Atheistic Satanist. I align with the works of Anton Lavey and have read just about everything he’s written.

However, I’ve been researching energy fields. I got into by studying Masaru Emoto’s research on the molecular structure of water. In a nutshell, when people would project emotions onto water it would affect the composition of it.

Like radio frequencies or TV waves we never knew they were there or could be broadcasted until we developed the technology to receive them. I think this concept may be in parallel to human development . It’s not far fetched to think that there is energy and currents around us that we aren’t aware of.

This idea lead me to research chakras and auras. Maybe, I have this same energy flowing through me. What a concept that I can channel it and use it to create change in a material sense. Science has proven that there is a biometric energy that surrounds all of us. Some paradigms call it an “aura”. Just another indicator that we are more than just this crude physical being.

The big leap that I’m having a problem making is that there are forces / entities / consciousness out there that exist in non-physical form that can interact and have an affect on my life.

I have always viewed magic as a type of psychodrama to focus on a goal. In parallel to Napoleon Hill’s famous book, “Think and Grow Rich”. Focusing on a goal and setting your mind to a specific intent. This cause and effect relationship where YOUR actions make something happen in the material world.

The evidence keeps adding up though. I’ve been reading about astral projections. Even tried binaural beats to get my brain into the Theta brainwaves. Which again leads back to the third eye. Seems like I’m on the right path because I keep coming back to the same vein of information.

No success in experiencing or even seeing other people experience anything out of body. I would say I’m hesitant to try an evocation because of my ignorance. There’s always the “what if” situations.

What if what I’ve been reading about is true?

What if I evoke something I don’t understand?

What if I can’t control the situation I’ve put myself into?

I view myself as a God and my body as my temple. My dwelling, my body is not something I want to share with another force or stream of consciousness.

Maybe I haven’t developed myself enough or educated myself enough to move forward with interacting with demons. If they even exist.

I doubt they do, but I’m open to a constructive dialogue about how to continue exploring this idea. I’ve always been fascinated by the possibility that something else other than humans is in the universe.

EA made a video about a demon coming to “hunt him” in his bedroom. Now I know this is border line holly wood drama here. But what if it’s not? What if forces can be used against you? Or you just unknowingly piss some entity off and it negatively affects your life?

I just need the smallest bit of evidence before I dive head first into this paradigm. I’m willing to put in the work, but I won’t drop hundreds of dollars for mats with Aramaic and black candles without something to go on first.

Your thoughts?

Look into Micheal Fords Paradigm(s) one view utilizes the sub concious, one utilizes a conceptual superconsciouness via the former (athiestic vs spiritual) both are accessing a “dark force” (either within or without or both) which produce the same concrete results through methods nobody truly comprehends entirely.

You’ll see what I mean. If you can stomache it try to decipher some of Kenneth Grants work regarding primal atavisms.

I find it wonderfully ironic, that I am new to this path and forum and many similarities to you, your thoughts and your situation. But, not all. And, I’m not willing to label myself at all and place myself into some box, which implies boundaries and limitations. However, once I started the meditations, a new world opened for me. Interestingly, the energies I saw, my children observed as well so we could observe and comment on them together! Seems logical to me that not only could I feel them, but now see them, then I could use them. My patience is at issue, because I put quality time in, daily, but do not have the patience to wait for positive results. Though I have had a TON of synchronicities. Which, honestly, seems so light weight here, that I’m almost hesitant in even stating it.

Here’s a question: I’ve had a lot of issues with birds being attracted to me. Even had them suicide bombing myself into my vehicle and I killed 11 birds in 10 days. Funny…but not! This was when I was really starting the meditations and beginning candle magic. I finally told the universe I had received the message I was on the right path and that I didn’t need to kill any more birds to “listen” to what was being told to me. No more bird killings! But, I did have several that would come towards my car and I would put my hand out to stop them and shout, “Enough! I got it!.” As I write this I now have a sparrow trying to break through my window. Coincidence? Don’t think so. But, anyone have any insights or perspectives about the birds or any entities associated which may be associated with them?

I’m a huge fan of Nap. Hill! :slight_smile:

All those New Thought, law of mind guys, the older the better (Wallace Wattles is amazing) - but Nap’s my hero, and probably saved my life several times over when I was an angsty teenager.

And really familiar with both Emoto’s work, and Sandra Ingerman, so it was good to see those two namechecked.

To business, do you believe that there are forces / entities / consciousnesses out there in PHYSICAL form which can affect you, even against your will, even (this is where it all goes beyond "everything in your life is a mirror of some part of you) against your “highest good”?

My partner (who doesn’t post on here btw) believes, in short, that everything around us is the shared sub/superconscious, throwing out aspects of itself to have experiences, and in that sense even physical beings aren’t “seperate” in the sense of being things floating randomly and haplessly in a sea of other things, with nothing unifying their experience.

I’m a hard polytheist, which is almost the opposite, believing that while we all stem from the Source, we differentiate at a very “early” stage and are therefore seperate personages, and I believe that beings can interact with us, physical or non-physical - and, really, look into the entirely non-solid nature of matter and spacetime, being “physical” isn’t like this huge - no pun intended - quantum leap that differentiates spirits from us.

Have a read of this post I did for more on that split you seem to imply between physical and non-physical beings: Time to blow your mind: the block world concept.

If you’re thinking, “meh, I don’t click links off strange ladies,” then may I just tempt you with the fact that you pretty much have your godlike powers, complete with miracles, right there in valid physical models of the universe - explained in that post. :wink:

@ Cogitation

Thanks for the recommendation. I’ll have to look more into Michael Ford’s work. I’ll admit I’m not to interested in jumping into a whole new paradigm as I believe he’s a Luciferian right?

EA talked about accessing this “realm” through whatever paradigm you’re comfortable with. There are many trails on the Left Hand Path. I’m not so sure I want to go exploring a new one just yet. But I’ll do some research on it. Always open to learning something new.

@ Colleen

Thanks for your input! It’s great to hear from people who are somewhat going through the same thought process as me.

I simply labeled myself in this post to illustrate my paradigm. Thought it would be helpful for people to know where I’m coming from.

The synchronicities are an interesting point. Then again you could just be looking for them. For example if I asked you to close your eyes and name everything in the room that was blue, you might be able to name a few things. Then when you opened your eyes you’d be seeing blue all over the place. You only see it now because you’re proactively looking for it. You focused your intent on it.

Now sit in front of a candle and think about whatever your goals are, or things you want to happen. Did some force make help you bring these things into existence or have your actions manifested it?

I’d be interested in hearing about what you saw / felt / experienced. Really just looking for any tangible results from your perspective that aren’t just “coincidence”.

Out of curiosity, what did you use to start with? What was your “start up kit” so to speak (candles, sigil etc.)? Did you have a specific goal in mind?

@ Lady Eva

You’re the saving grace of this forum. I thought for sure everyone here was a crystal wearing white Wiccan. LOL! J/K. Good to see that people here respect / research the sciences as well.

I’m sure there are people out there that don’t like me or don’t have my best interest at heart. I normally avoid social interaction because I have such high standards for people I call “friend”. I normally don’t even give people a chance. Keeping the good ones away often times keeps the bad ones away too.

So, in relation to spirituality I guess I’ve done the same thing. Establishing if there is actually anything there to interact with is what I’m trying to accomplish now.

I read about an experiment done in Finland called the “split pea experiment”. They basically cut a pea in half and put the other half in a separate laboratory miles away. They then affected the pea in different ways and the other half responded almost same. Things like heating it up, cooling it down, microwaving it etc. The same changes were seen in the other half. Supporting the idea that we’re all connected. There’s this invisible force that links us to one another.

Now I know this is starting to sound like something out of Star Wars, but experiment after experiment are supporting this idea. It’s not such a leap then to assume that if the universe came from a big bang that we are all in some way still connected.

I appreciate you providing that resource. That was a great post. I watched a YouTube video about that very topic. My mind can hardly wrap around conceptualizing the possibilities.

EA talks about being able to manifest these things during meditation. Making something so real you can reach out and grab it. He talks about this in reference to his motorcycle.

I’ve read about people who astral project and are able to instantly manifest things while projecting. Getting into that 200Hz range mentally and accessing things beyond.

This all sounds like awesome stuff, but my problem with this is it all happens in the mind of the practitioner!!!

Could this type of meditation or fantasy be just a way to empower the individual to make changes he was too weak to make on his own toward obtaining the object of his desires?

::My Experience::

I live in an apartment alone and since researching and doing nightly meditations (about 30 minutes or so) I get the feeling I’m being watched.

I’m not trying invocation / evocation. I just put on a meditation video from YouTube and think about my goals. I’ve noticed things moving in the direction I want them to. Surely the spiritual realm has better things to do than act on behalf of my best interest.

Maybe it’s just my head expecting something to be there. Maybe I should close the blinds on my window. I could just be getting sucked into a world spiritualism I don’t really believe in yet.

My concern with going all the way with trying this and really putting in some effort to meditation is what if it works? What if I try an evocation and call Asmoday forward and he shows up! I would literally shit my pants.

I could potentially access a force or something I don’t fully understand. Then what? I’m not fearful, just ignorant. EA says when meditating or performing a ritual you become the center of the universe. You are a God at that point. With that mindset I would just start making things happen. Teamwork makes the dream work. Maybe that’s the wrong attitude though.

Thanks for any advice you can provide about how to start approaching these personable forces and working together to help change come about in my life.

[quote=“KenTabor, post:5, topic:3944”]The synchronicities are an interesting point. Then again you could just be looking for them. For example if I asked you to close your eyes and name everything in the room that was blue, you might be able to name a few things. Then when you opened your eyes you’d be seeing blue all over the place. You only see it now because you’re proactively looking for it. You focused your intent on it.

Now sit in front of a candle and think about whatever your goals are, or things you want to happen. Did some force make help you bring these things into existence or have your actions manifested it?[/quote]
The fist Law in the Kybalion, “The universe is mental” kind of covers that though - as a discrete thinking being within a larger thinking being, you’re able to both draw things to you in ways that slightly surpass normal physical rules (by at the very least creating convenient “coincidences”), and also to use concentration and awareness to find more of those things using normal methods.

I’m sure anyone who’s become a parent, or joined the armed forces, or even just learned to drive, knows how a new aspect in your life can bring a whole new awareness to you, and a completely different level of thinking.

That ties in with both conventional “positive thinking” stuff, and the studies whereby people who believe they’re “lucky” therefore take more chances, open themselves fearlessly to new experiences, have more confidence - and therefore, by completely normal routes, they do get more good luck, more breaks and opportunities.

Have a look at this: Be Lucky - it’s and easy skill to learn.

Here’s a short quote: “One month later, the volunteers returned and described what had happened. The results were dramatic: 80 per cent of people were now happier, more satisfied with their lives and, perhaps most important of all, luckier. While lucky people became luckier, the unlucky had become lucky.”

If you extend that slightly into the metaphysical by trying out the idea that the universe is a thinking thing, something covered nicely by Wattles in his “Science Of” books, then you can see that there’s the further possibility to consciously align yourself with the situations and things you want (the basic stuff behind the book The Secret) and therefore to draw them into your life by being in harmony with them - and that to take conscious control of this process is an imperative, because you’re actually doing it anyway.

EA talks about being able to manifest these things during meditation. Making something so real you can reach out and grab it. He talks about this in reference to his motorcycle.

I’ve read about people who astral project and are able to instantly manifest things while projecting. Getting into that 200Hz range mentally and accessing things beyond.

This all sounds like awesome stuff, but my problem with this is it all happens in the mind of the practitioner!!!

Could this type of meditation or fantasy be just a way to empower the individual to make changes he was too weak to make on his own toward obtaining the object of his desires?

But again that presupposes a split between physical - if I may, the “normal” reality - in which you work for what you want on your own, along normal routes and it comes to you, contrasted with, you sit in your room frowning and struggling to make it appear by mind alone: but that’s a false split - the physical and the mental thinking universe are one and the same.

Magick always happens in the mind - in the practitioner’s mind, and (depending on your model of the universe) within the mind of God/Source/whatever - weirdly, the recent work I did exploring how demons think (at least the aspects of them we interact with) kind of covered how they’re such excellent channels for manifesting physical outcomes, because their focus and desire is so pure and driven.

If you want to read about what I found (and of course, it’s UPG only) I posted about it at The psychology of demons. It’s a work in progress but what I discovered explains why demons have so much apparent power, yet seldom do things outside their grimoiric descriptions.

It also explains why a demon can be tasked to attack someone who’s previously worked with them, even on a very amicable basis, which is something that comes up a lot for intermediate-level magicians as a question about whether demons truly ARE evil - taking my model, that’s explained by the fact the demon loves the activity and the consequences more than anything else. it has nothing to do with “disloyalty” - just a different value system and different set of drives.

And getting back to the more normal realms, Nap. Hill himself talked about the way when you take positive action, with a clear ideas of your Definite Major Aim and the complete confidence it will happen for you, the universe aligns itself to bring you those results.

I'm not trying invocation / evocation. I just put on a meditation video from YouTube and think about my goals. I've noticed things moving in the direction I want them to. [b]Surely the spiritual realm has better things to do than act on behalf of my best interest.[/b]
That right thar :o) is a thought you may want to dissect mercilessly, because it has potential to be a big obstacle to exploring different models of reality.

Seriously, the most important living person in your life is YOU, Nap. said it, the LHP says it, what’s the universe for if not for the enjoyment and use of its multiple semi-seperated consciousnesses to enjoy?

Seriously I don’t want to sound dictatorial and I know a lot of faiths like people to put themselves second, but it’s probably not going to do you any favours with either old-school New Thought/LoA stuff, nor with exploring the LHP.

I could potentially access a force or something I don't fully understand. Then what?

You already are.

If the universe is a giant mental thing, and there’s a “law of attraction” by which things in our lives are brought to us in harmony with what we think, believe, etc., then you’re ALREADY co-creating your own life, but you’re doing it unconsciously and with a dollop of other people’s unexamined programming overlaying it all.

Once again this is an area where the LHP and LoA thought aligns completely - that we’re agents of nature, co-creators of reality, and we either go with the flow of external influences, or, we can steer our own way through an act of will.

Wattles admits this isn’t easy, and while Nap. Hill’s very inclusive, you can see that he’s aware that not everyone is ready, or willing, to do this.

Maybe it's just my head expecting something to be there.

The only way to test it is through trying the methods and assessing the results, I believe in Nap. Hill’s works and the conventional LoA concept because I KNOW from repeated results that this method works, the same way I don’t wonder if water’s going to come out of the faucet when I turn it, the same way gravity doesn’t vary because that’s also a universal law, but I realise that sounds borderline dogmatic so the BEST way is to test it yourself - and, because this stuff works on the level of thought to begin with (everything comes from thought, including whatever you’re reading this post on, which was once just an idea in someone’s mind) that’s where you need to make a choice to give this a go, with an open mind.

That’s why keeping an honest magickal journal to record what you did, and how it worked, is a good idea. Crowley has more to say about why magick sometimes doesn’t work (Magick in Theory and Practice) by the way.

If demonic evocation isn’t for you right now, there are other forms of magick, there’s working with angels (through sigils, prayer, or whatever), there are gods such as Ganesha or Lakshmi if you’d prefer to avoid angels, or planetary magick, there’s a world of different options - AO Spare’s method of making and firing sigils walks the line between subconscious programming and outright magick, as well, and that works.

Have you read Prometheus Rising by Robert Anton Wilson? That might be a helpful segue from positive thinking (as in, focusing on what you want) to outright “Fuck me, there’s a demon standing in that triangle” :o) evocation, and the heavier forms of magick.

Sorry if I’m rambling on and I didn’t mean to kind of lecture you, but the link between the LoA, the LHP and black magick is one that I’m keenly interested in and have a lot of opinions about, and (if I may make a modest boast) a lot of experience exploring, coming at this, as I did, from Nap. Hill’s works, then via Wattles (who’s a bit more mystically minded) and so on.

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I understand what you’re saying as far as exposing yourself to new experiences can increase your awareness and thus make you “luckier”. The study was an interesting read as well. The possibility of achieving your goal multiples when you expand the avenues for it to happen.

My point is that’s YOU doing that. Maybe I’m wrong here, but the whole point of trying to contact forces beyond the physical is because I need help doing that.

I would talk to a demon about bringing people into my life by circumstance for example, if I was trying to make money. I would then be proactively trying to expose myself to new people. No way to tell though if success was through my own working or if the demon and I just met halfway on our efforts.

My presupposition was injected simply for the sake of the conversation. I haven’t yet seen any proof that there exist a realm, for example the astral, where demons dwell. Kind of the whole point of me getting involved with this.

Is this whole Black Magick thing just one giant psychological head trip or are there personable entities out in the ether that bend to my will because I say it so? I don’t know, but open minded enough to find out.

I don’t think it’s a false dichotomy (false - split) to assume that there is a realm unseen by our senses that operate independently of us. I understand what you mean by they are one in the same. Or as EA describes it in his book “Calling Upon Hell”, sheets of paper that overlap one another.

That means to me that there is a tangible force outside of my head that in some quantum mechanic miracle has the ability to be pulled through time space itself and affect my life. Either people are actually doing this or it’s just a bunch of imaginary friends for adults who have no real life skills to accomplish things on their own.

I would say I’m sold on it enough to give it some solid effort and keep track of what happens. Honestly, right now it just sounds like a bunch of people meditating and talking to themselves. I don’t need the physco drama to focus on my goals.

To “embrace and attain the focus of a demon” to achieve my goals as you put it.

Funny you say that, I’m to the point now that I’d love to see a demon standing in a triangle just to know that there’s something more than just this life. To know that something does exist. That people aren’t crazy and just do this for show or social validation. That it’s not Hollywood. That I can access things beyond this physical plane.

It probably would scare me at first, but then I would at least know. So much to learn.

My opinion, and it’s only that, is that you need to go quite a long way with doing stuff that brings those “Is this magick, or was it just the way things were going anyway?” moments first - TWF on here called it “The art of consistant coincidence” and in a majority of cases that’s what it feels like - then, at some point along that road (and you may or may not be chatting to spirits by then, and still wondering, a bit, “Is this truly real?”) you’ll have the occasional experience so stark-staring against all probability, or, some spirit will tell you about something you could never possibly have known by normal methods, and suddenly you get that feeling that “Oh fuck: THIS STUFF WORKS.”

It might not be “Oh fuck” but that moment when all the coincidences, the warnings or advance notice given to you that worked out exactly as the spirit said, all add up into a huge violation of the probable outcome you were expecting, that’s the point for most of us (I think) where the penny truly drops.

What you’ll probably not get right away is full-on, visble audible manifestations of spirits who levitate the neighbour’s car for you or make gold bricks appear out of thin air. Part of the laws of this material world seem to prohibit the flashier stuff - at least until the adept has reached such a point that they actually no longer need it, and certainly would never talk about it.

Why that is, opinions vary: I go by, the universe, me included, is a thinking mind and can’t violate its own rules that keep manifest spacetime ticking along by making stuff happen when it can be observed by a mind that’s unprepared, but that’s kind of a whole topic in itself and opinions vary quite widely about it.

Once or twice I’ve experienced things that were truly “miraculous,” but they’re not things I feel that comfortable talking about - other people, again, feel differently, it’s a very subjective area.

That means to me that there is a tangible force outside of my head that in some quantum mechanic miracle has the ability to be pulled through time space itself and affect my life. Either people are actually doing this or it's just a bunch of imaginary friends for adults who have no real life skills to accomplish things on their own.

I understand what you mean, but that’s not the case for most of us anyway - I have a partner, a life, a lot of people on here have the same, kids, families, I mean in terms of fitting the definition of functional it’s actually very common for people who are heavily into magick to have a profession or trade, and the other trappings of a life that’s working for them on material terms, than not.

There are always a few people at the start of their journey, whose lives are not going the way they want, but that kind of thing is often what brings people to magick (and I by no means just mean black magick), and very often they get themselves sorted out as part of the journey: for me that happened quite young, and yes, my unhappy childhood is what drove me into wanting more out of life.

Kind of hard to prove you’re not a certain type of person though, especially when too much rebuttal starts to sound like “The lady doth protest too much, methinks.” :wink:

(Oh, and I totally have invisible friends, but that’s a trick I learned from Napoleon Hill himself, and not directly relevant to this discussion.)

I would say I'm sold on it enough to give it some solid effort and keep track of what happens. Honestly, right now it just sounds like a bunch of people meditating and talking to themselves. I don't need the physco drama to focus on my goals.
Cool, if you put in the work with an open mind then you might start to see something, I don't know the internal state of your mind obviously but to some extent, similar actions lead to similar results so long as your mind's not tightly clamping down to prevent them happening.

I don’t want to harangue you or try to “sell you” on this idea that magick’s real, demons etc., are real, because it might not be right for you, however, it seems to me to be so, so my comments are coming from that place - magick’s as subjective an experience, a lot of the time, as falling in love, and can you imagine trying to convince someone THAT experience was real if you didn’t have the culture already saturated by models of what it’s supposed to be like, and had to use terminology designed to describe completely different things? :slight_smile:

Good luck with your explorations, and I hope whatever you find works for you.

Thanks so much for your input Lady Eva, you’ve been very helpful at providing a look into this new world I’m exploring. I appreciate the time you took to reply to my inquires.

You’re so right about Love. Totally off topic, but I remember the first time I truly felt what love was like. Looking into someone’s eyes and them looking right back at yours with the same intensity. lt was nothing like the superficial model society said it should be. I’ll never forget that moment or how it felt. People might be able to describe what it feels like, but nothing compares to experiencing it.

Thanks again to everyone!

My apologies for not responding sooner. I’ve been crazy busy and have been working through the new soul travel course…which BTW, is awesome.

I started candle meditation. I never did an intention while meditating. I did some Robert Bruce work because my ultimate goal is soul travel. That lead to energy work and then being able to see auras. During the candle meditations, I see energies, which is very cool. I’m going to try the blue one recommended in the soul travel course as soon as I can get to the store and find an indigo candle.

As for the synchronicities? Well, I’ve greatly considered that I have somehow willed or projected them. But, the thing is, what they are is a VERY unusual name and 3 songs that are several years old. It’s not statistically possible to have 5-10 of these a day. Maybe one or two. So, I just thank the universe for the message to me that I am on the correct path of what I am trying to manifest for myself and my family.

Everyone is different, but for me it resonates strongly (and logically) that there is a whole lot out there that even the best of the best do not understand. No offense to those here that are way up the ascent ladder! I’m referring more to main stream.

The very essence of defining something inherently places limitations and boundaries on it. When we begin talking of and having experiences of things that most would laugh at, renounce, and dismiss as fiction because they fail to recognize it; it’s outside their frame of reference or simple ignorance does not mean it isn’t real or true. It may be an old adage, but ignorance is bliss and truth is stranger than fiction.