Christian Occultism

I’ve noticed that the Christian church has been looking into straight up occultism and occultic practices, which is funny because the religion doesn’t like magicians and has historically persecuted them.

The strange part is that we all know the prophets were magicians. Abraham, Moses, Samuel, Solomon, Daniel and the Five, Elijah and Elisha, even John the Baptist and Jesus, Peter and the Apostles, and James the Just. SORCERERS every single one of them.

Do you want to share your magick circles and Sabbats with Bible-thumpers? Welcome all? Or get your own/these are ours?

Do you think Christians doing magick can lead to more tolerance of alternative spirituality? Or is the church in your view trying to muscle in on the New Age movement and kidnap its good ideas?

Or maybe you don’t care?

Your take on the whole shabang?

Discuss.

I haven’t seen particularly noticeable results with it, from both sides- using it and having it used against me.

Do you want to share your magick circles and Sabbats with Bible-thumpers? Welcome all? Or get your own/these are ours?

Give swords to men, not mice. Armed mice is how we got into this mess in the first place.

Do you think Christians doing magick can lead to more tolerance of alternative spirituality?

No, because they’ll pervert it and declare theirs the only “true” way, as usual.

Or is the church in your view trying to muscle in on the New Age movement and kidnap its good ideas?

Or maybe you don’t care?

I don’t personally care, however, it would make sense if the Catholics are trying to catch up.

Your take on the whole shabang?

Eh. Not worth the effort.

I've noticed that the Christian church has been looking into straight up occultism and occultic practices, which is funny because the religion doesn't like magicians and has historically persecuted them.

The fear and persecution is used to distance everyone from the occult. Especially for specific reasons, like the fact that a few individuals are in fact doing it themselves.

Edit to Add: if you are being persecuted by an individual… then said person “had to go.” Thats when you call in the Mafia and Belial (The Don or Underboss…or Consigliere… heck make it all 3 the New Trinity) to send his henchman to work said individual over because said person is acting too funny and “knows too much.” Lol

[Quote]
Your opinion: Christian occultism - good idea, or not?

Do you want to share your magick circles and Sabbats with Bible-thumpers? Welcome all? Or get your own/these are ours?[/quote]

Doesnt matter to me. I never do anything in a group unless I am the leader. This is because of selfish interests sabotaging. You very well know what happens in a “herd mind” when you want to get ahead and some “groupie” decides you do not fit the collective (religious) thinking. Either way you can still go to church, and if you know what you are doing you could reverse all their magickal work to usr against them, to work for you, etc.

[Quote]
Do you think Christians doing magick can lead to more tolerance of alternative spirituality? Or is the church in your view trying to muscle in on the New Age movement and kidnap its good ideas?[/quote]

The new age movement is juzt another power source for the church. New Age is watered down spirituality. The church is pretty much just a big cult with their own “occult Brande.” Now if everyone was empowering themselves, the church as a Business Brande would not be able to make alot of money. That is why the church needs alot of money…otherwise theyd go out of business =) because who truly wanta to believe in that shit. People have done find long before they came, without giving their wealth away and had similar beliefs in things like an afterlife and Gods.

I don’t care, there have always been Xian mystics, two I personally respect being Richard Wurmbrand and Dr Martin Israel.

(“Respect” doesn’t mean “wish to adopt their views” - but the former was one tough motherfucker, and the latter did excellent deliverence work for the dead.)

Christianity is superior to present-day Islam in that it adapts and changes, instead of regressing everyone back to the exact cultural and scienitific state of its founders, so if some Xians are throwing in a little magick, let 'em, policing who can perform certain acts is the role of a religion, and not the concern of a LHP magician (in my opinion anyway).

Also, at least some of the grimoire authors of old may have been Xians, there are arguments both ways 9that they masked the atrs in the terminology of Xian belief to avoid persecution, that they did really believe the true man of God should command demons to serve him) so there’s also that, it isn’t a new thing.

Off-topic - you’re using sentence case now? Are you feeling quite yourself, old chap? :slight_smile:

1 Like

I think Church is a business. Plus, I think a lot of these pastors would drop the Christ thing in a heartbeat if it wasn’t bringing in money and young women.

the funny thing about that is that sufism was the most advanced magick of its time and was forward-looking. dantalion explained to me in conjuration that the sufi mystics of the 11th century were ahead of their time. all of europe knew the power of moorish metaphysics. the sufis of that time would consider today’s wahhabists to be heretics.

is it also not a coincidence that when the magicians were in charge of islam, it revived and spread classical western intellectual thought? now that the imams are in charge islam is the definition of rude ignorance. times change things.

the joke is that the jewish prophets were all sorcerors, and some of them would qualify HARD as lhp. elijah, moses, and jesus in particular. the new testament describes jesus doing goetia.

that makes sense, as long as the gun collectors don’t turn around and start firing at you after you’ve turned in your weapon.

that’s pretty plain to see in kabbalism. the congolese have a term for that - palo cristiano, where the christians did mayombe but replaced the nganga with bibles. clearly the missionaries of old were up to something they kept to themselves when they got back to the ‘civilized’ world.

uh yeah. that.

i’ve been working on my typing speed again and capitalization is part of the drills. have been lowercasing it for decades now but maybe it’s time to outgrow my ntozake shange lowercase obsession and join the real world.

None were sorcerers, as far as I know. Most of those people were gifted by the Lord or were called to do certain things on His behalf anyway. There’s also various Jewish legends that certain patriarchs were angels of the Lord anyway, like Moses was the Metatron or Jacob was Gabriel, etc, etc. Rabbis typically downplay the association.

Solomon, on the other hand, was a descendant of David, who was annointed by the Lord. Samuel, if I recall correctly, was just called by God- which I think is said in the first book of Kings (or whatever the version’s say). So a prophet of the Lord is different from the commonly associated term with sorcerer. Back to Solomon, though, he just asked God for wisdom to rule and God rewarded him with magical secrets.

Most of the stories in the Bible tell it as the power of the Lord. I didn’t find different definitions of sorcery until the New Testament when sorcery was more defined both by the story of Simon Magus and in Revelations. Of course, if you know the story then I don’t need to mention either to you.

For those that don’t! Simon Magus just used magical powers to fool and mislead the people around him, which is pretty evil as it gave them false hopes and such only because he hated his fellow man. Revelations mentions sorcery in the context of, “For where is the flock to go without their shepherd?” Which gave me the inclination that magick, what we’d call white magick now at least, is acceptable if you’re helping others like through healing spells, spiritual guidance, prayers, blessings, exorcisms, etc. Likewise, the rituals employed by the Golden Dawn and Rosicrucians often brings those Divine energies to you so that you may yoke and union with the Divine. I’m not mentioning kabbalistic theories or even some Christian notions, which I’m still looking into, by the way as this post would terribly long.

From what I’ve gathered, if you’re not harming anyone and you’re helping them out, then it should be no issue. I explained this once to someone that developing and cultivating the attitude of tolerance, respect for others and being kind to them is exactly what Christ said to do. That’s also in the Old Testament in various parts between Prophets and the Jews. I have yet to look into Islam but from little pieces of the Koran (that aren’t cited by online idiots) it says the same thing since Mohammad was instructed by the Archangel Jibril (Arabic for Gabriel). The same Archangel who announced Christ’s birth to Mary.

Personally, I don’t share my knowledge with someone who’s a Bible thumper, not magickal knowledge anyway like how to charge seals and such. I usually stress to them things like prayer and confessing among us, as said by Christ. I mean, it takes a bit of an open mind and self-discipline for someone to think “Hmm, let me see and make an analysis of this stuff before I come to a conclusion.” Most older people do that, unless their shitheads, but kids and teenagers won’t because they have that fire about them- as in, they are impulsive as all hell. Well boys from my experience, since I was once. Girls are just as bad but in different settings.

Don’t get me wrong, there’s plenty of new Church movements that have sprung up since the 60s and 70s. Most groups are having a bit of a spiritual crisis now and are attempting to keep the light lit for now. Everyone’s feeling the strain, even New Agers and some magicians.

Astrologically, if we’re in the “Age of Aquarius” now, we’re certainly either in the stage of Aires (if we place the little into the big) or in the phase similar to that of Keter, where we see the “First Swirlings” as it were. Anyone interested in my math for that?

No?

Really?

Well go fuck yourselves. Nuthin but bunch of emo edgelords around here anyway…

[quote=“Kenneth, post:7, topic:8326”]Anyone interested in my math for that?

No?

Really?

Well go fuck yourselves. Nuthin but bunch of emo edgelords around here anyway…[/quote]

Er, hello?

If you don’t like this forum, feel free to leave - “Log out” at the top right-hand side of the screen, aka the Right-Hand Path to salvation.

I don’t know what’s prompted this comment, or if you were joking, but this kind of thing is usually the stock-in-trade of trolls, not serious members.

1 Like

Prophets and Sorcery

In order to make a comment like that, you have to practice magick long enough and actually understand it in-depth. Prophecy and Sorcery are synonymous. A prophet has a Vision, and a Sorceror weaves a vision into reality; Passive and Active uses of Psi-Ability in magick. Creating ones own Self-Fulfilling prophecies.

^exactly

[quote=“Lady Eva, post:8, topic:8326”][quote=“Kenneth, post:7, topic:8326”]Anyone interested in my math for that?

No?

Really?

Well go fuck yourselves. Nuthin but bunch of emo edgelords around here anyway…[/quote]

Er, hello?

If you don’t like this forum, feel free to leave - “Log out” at the top right-hand side of the screen, aka the Right-Hand Path to salvation.

I don’t know what’s prompted this comment, or if you were joking, but this kind of thing is usually the stock-in-trade of trolls, not serious members.[/quote]

No, no, no maliciousness intended. I’ve just been on reddit for the last three months so we typically banter each other like that. It’s all in good humor! =)

Edit: speaking of humor, here’s a link to a new reddit that some of you might enjoy and want to add to yourselves or make one here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/occultmeme/

I haven’t seen particularly noticeable results with it, from both sides- using it and having it used against me.

Do you want to share your magick circles and Sabbats with Bible-thumpers? Welcome all? Or get your own/these are ours?

Give swords to men, not mice. Armed mice is how we got into this mess in the first place.

Do you think Christians doing magick can lead to more tolerance of alternative spirituality?

No, because they’ll pervert it and declare theirs the only “true” way, as usual.

Or is the church in your view trying to muscle in on the New Age movement and kidnap its good ideas?

Or maybe you don’t care?

I don’t personally care, however, it would make sense if the Catholics are trying to catch up.

Your take on the whole shabang?

Eh. Not worth the effort.[/quote] My thoughts exactly, Velotak.

This is what mormonism and to a lesser degree catholocism are. My initial impression of utah was it wasn’t the most tolerant state around, but I don’t live there, for anyone who does , whats your impression?

Well, from a Biblical point of view magick is defined as any supernatural power which does not come from God. What the Apostles practiced was not sorcery, it was communion of the Holy Spirit and working through God, and not trusting in their own power or calling upon Eldritch forces that are not Holy. The prophets did essentially the same thing. Jesus Christ (Ēshw’ M’sheekha) as the incarnation of God on Earth could do anything he wanted because God is omnipotent.

I would also be wary of the New Age movement. Just because something seems benevolent doesn’t mean it is. Like the fox in the Gingerbread Man story…