Blood Offerings : Menstrual Blood

One of the most interesting things about playing with different blood offerings in quantity, form, and timing is that since the source for menstrual blood is reliable, and the structure varies greatly depending on the precise day of menses, it has a very different signature depending on the time of use.

On the first day, it is generally very dark, viscous, and often not homogenous, more clotting. Successively, lightening, brightening and becoming a much much more homogenous solution.

The lighter brighter blood is what is generally perferred for generative white magic. The older seeming, more egg-white in texture blood is used for black magic workings. I’m sure this has to do with the hormones present. And the clotting factor incorporates different nutrients and minerals than the fresher flow.

It very simple to precisely chart and collect the correct kinds for the correct workings with cute little apps like ‘period tracker’ which has a place for notes and is even possible to add in the moon phase and sign (such as full moon in Pisces 10%) if that’s important. As well as description of the quality, the working, and spirit. The use of a menstrual cup provides a superbly clean catch and with little measure marks (1/8 oz, 1/4oz, etc.) is a very accurate way of tracking the quantity for documentation.

At times when the working perhaps does not require a combination of black and white magic, I do not waste the first day, either. Creating repelling energy around the vessel, I enter t/g sync and make an astral link to which I can return in deep trance later. Mark the date, the moon phase & sign as well as noting my planetary transits. And I allow the blood to dry in the collection vessel, because yes, the structure and DNA signature are the powerful link.

Then for the black magic ritual that requires a significant amount more blood than I have at the time, I return in trance to that space/time and consecrate the offering retroactively.

Other times, the entities with whom I am closest and do not regard such behavior as violation of my spiritual self, have directly bypassed the need for precise consecration and used the flow as soon as it has left my human vessel and entered the collection vessel. At which point, I simply empty the menstrual cup directly and proceed to the room cleaning/energy cleansing phase.

The details are then recorded in memoriam in either a digital journal or physical journal.

The insight on the perception of the operator is also quite apt. If the spirit requests a certain amount at a certain time, this is all based on what the spirit has gleaned from the operator, and so often they pick up things we hide from ourselves and test (attempt to trick) us to determine or force spiritual growth. If the operator is aftraid of pain or has a stingy or conservative nature, or is sickened by the sight of blood, the spirit will know and potentially bring this to attention if required. Again, depends on the working entirely; the goals of the operator both conscious and subconscious here are totally in play and fair game.

For example, cursing someone to death out of sheer anger and rage without the raw hatred component will have a different effect, if the operator sincerely wouldn’t hurt a human and hasn’t really deeply contemplated their death, and ramifications in the ‘real world.’ Likewise, a working to heal someone about whom the operator may be a bit apathetic, may lack power as well. This is why I enjoy the potency of blood. It gives the spirit the power and in a way turns over the Will that the human may lack so that the working can generate the ostensibly desired result. Of course, this requires a very precise pact/law/testament/relationship with a lot of analysis devoid of judgement, guilt, self-doubt, etc.

Different spirits also have different abilities, functions, power, so doing a retroactive offering with a particular demon might be undesired or impossible with an angel or ancestor. Its all totally subjective and based entirely on the operator’s perceptions both conscious and unconscious. Another reason divination and self-hypnosis can be quite beneficial here prior to the t/g sync and working.

Self-hypnosis following divination will pre-program the subconscious to accept the result, and proceed without self-loathing or fear, or confusion. Something as simple as “I want xxx dead and I love and accept myself” will do wonders for accomplishing the goal. As a Christian, I confess my tendency toward error and misjudgement, speak my goal to my Heavenly Father through Christ, and request Grace to cover my error that my knowledge may increase and as a result, my faith in my Heavenly Father to grow. I actively take the part of Chaos/Mother/Holy Spirit, but with the intention to further evolve my understanding of Source. And to watch how the love of God is truly there to cover all sins. That sort of thing in a very basic form.

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Odd as it may sound, I have never used at type of blood because for one thing I would feel pretty grossed out collecting it into a chalice or vial and I cannot even begin to imagine how you would go about doing that. It’s not like a faucet gets turned on during that time of the month and it flows right out in an endless supply, it’s a very slow process which is why most women are on their cycle for 4-7 days because it takes that long for the process to complete. But the use of such bodily substances is not available for every woman. I had my doctor make it go away for good with a permanent surgical procedure and I had a good reason for doing this. So if I want blood, I have to get it the old fashioned way.

I have spoken to a few wiccans that swear by it though, the kind of power it can produce but even if I still had something like that to use as an offering, I would be grossed out by it. I don’t see how a spirit could want something like that without being repulsed or offended by it.

What an interesting post that was Gwendolyn; as I said in the latter section above, only a woman of the black arts will know how to deal with the menstrual blood. I have known for years how powerful it can be but I’ve had no luck asking certain spirits because they would never tell me.

I’ve left semen for my own dark goddess and she has used that as a portal to pull more energy out of me days later, and I mean she literally made me come like a friggin geyser (lol). This has happened as I explained above because I’m sure the spirit can use the DNA as a link straight to my body to get more whenever she wanted it. This can be embarrassing as well at the wrong times as you can imagine?

Blood however tends to vibrate the spiritual realms and I’ve not even scratched the surface as to the knowledge I would love to obtain about different usages of these offerings. If you wish to share anymore insights about the use of blood than I would love to hear them.

Wait a second, Gwendolyn, you consider yourself a christian? Because I have always felt that you cannot be a christian and practice magick at the same time. Magick goes against what christians stand for and the concepts of christianity goes against what most magicians believe in whether they identify as an RHP or LHP practitioner. So to mix the two belief systems seems counter productive and strange to me. We had this argument once on a wiccan forum and it seemed to be divided in half, half of us felt you could not have those beliefs simultaneously, and the other half said it did not matter if the views were conflicting that anyone can believe whatever they wish even if their very beliefs went completely against the type of forum they were a member of.

Don’t get me wrong, you had some good advice but I find it strange to mix christianity with anything magickal especially blood sacrifice rituals which have been mainly associated with darker paths over the years. Only recently have more RHP magicians been open to the idea that blood sacrifice does not have to be considered as something dark or sinister.

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[quote=“RavensAscent, post:4, topic:6095”]Wait a second, Gwendolyn, you consider yourself a christian? Because I have always felt that you cannot be a christian and practice magick at the same time. Magick goes against what christians stand for and the concepts of christianity goes against what most magicians believe in whether they identify as an RHP or LHP practitioner. So to mix the two belief systems seems counter productive and strange to me. We had this argument once on a wiccan forum and it seemed to be divided in half, half of us felt you could not have those beliefs simultaneously, and the other half said it did not matter if the views were conflicting that anyone can believe whatever they wish even if their very beliefs went completely against the type of forum they were a member of.

Don’t get me wrong, you had some good advice but I find it strange to mix christianity with anything magickal especially blood sacrifice rituals which have been mainly associated with darker paths over the years. Only recently have more RHP magicians been open to the idea that blood sacrifice does not have to be considered as something dark or sinister.[/quote]

You can Mix Christianity with Satanism/Paganism as to giving of blood/sacrifice. This is because the underlying Symbolic Foundation is shared. A Christian whom does a Blood Sacrifice is nothing more than a Closeted (Abrahamic) Satanist. And vice versa.

I should however point out the difference between the Abrahamic and other types of Satanists. The Abrahamic crowd is basically those types that Stereotype Pagans/Satanists as being into all manner of “Hollywood Fare Horror Show” such as Ghouls and Goblins and human sacrifice… to follow with their Gore.

Then one has what I call a Disillusioned Satanist (or Practitioner, depending on how you want to see yourself), who does not subscribe to that Stereotyping of Either Closeted Christian or Abrahamic Satanist. This is because the underlying symbolic foundation of how such a Disillusioned Individual thinks does not all for all that garbage.

Shall I split the posts about menstrual blood into a new topic folks, so it’s not on this specific thread?

Say the word, I can make Gwendolyn’s post and the replies into a new thread so it’s not two conversations at once. :slight_smile:

[quote=“Lady Eva, post:6, topic:6095”]Shall I split the posts about menstrual blood into a new topic folks, so it’s not on this specific thread?

Say the word, I can make Gwendolyn’s post and the replies into a new thread so it’s not two conversations at once. :)[/quote]

Menstrual blood is still blood,and this topic is about making blood offerings.

If you meant seperating the topic of whether Christianity,and Magic can coexist,then do separate it,if people starting talking about it which considering my next post(sorry for being a thread hijacker!)

On the topic of whether magic and Christianity coexisting.First off,the blood thing.RavenAscent is superbly right,when she says that RHP religions have for a long time,frowned upon the use of blood and recently revived it.

However,blood has been a part of their customs for centuries.Eid al-Adha,involved lamb slaughtering,which was one of the core parts of their practice.Ancient Jews would sacrifice one goat for Yahweh,and one goat for Azazel,and throw it off a cliff,so that they’re dumping everyone’s sins on Azazel,thus where the term ‘‘scapegoat’’ originated.Finally,is anyone blind enough to notice the blood of Christ and the symbolism in it,and all the people who bleed for Jesus,simply to make their sacrifices seem like his?

Religions such as Kemetism,and Odinism and Asatru and Hellenic all hail from ancient Paganism,which in turn,did involve blood offerings.Puja sometimes,was indeed bloody.Few religions can attest to being completely without bloodshed(maybe Jainism?) so the idea of a Christian honoring their God with blood is not so far fetched.I do know Gwendolyn isn’t honoring Jehovah or Jesus,or the Holy Spirit with blood,I’m just stating that blood isn’t alien in the Right Hand Path.

That said,I am a zealous eclectic,a lifelong lover syncretism,and when people IRL ask me about my religion,I simply say:’‘I’m kind of an eclectic.A Universal Unitarian.’’

I have yet to encounter a religion,that I absolutely loathe in every single way for every single thing.I genuinely loathe some things about every religions.There’s a ton of stuff I mind.

In Satanism,I mind the nihilism,the lack of forgiveness etc.In Christianity,I mind the zeal,the force,the coercion,the blindness,etc.In Islam,I mind the sexism,and the killing,etc. In Buddhism,I mind the escapism,the abstinence,etc.In Hinduism,I mind the forceful taking of dharmas,and the escapism and the rest.In Kemetism,I mind the lack of connection made with the spirits,the whitewashing of ancient customs,etc.

An ideal religion,that will suit everyone is IMO impossible.So I identify as a Universal Unitarian,because I pull what I like from each one of them,and make something out of them.And I remained detached.

That said,what can one make of the complicated(and awfully coercive) methods of the Goetia,among other texts?They are certainly very Christian.So there is such a thing as Christian mysticism,and Christian Magic.

and when I first got into magick,coming from a Muslim background,I dug very deep(like almost everyone around here) and the more and more I researched,the more I realized that Islam is OK with magic.

No seriously.Islam doesn’t shun spirituality,and encourages the pursuit of knowledge.However,the basic tenant of Islam,is that all other spirits are evil jinn in disguise and the only real God out there is Allah.So they mind the Paganism/Atheism/Idolatry(collectively known as Shirk),rather than the actual practice of magic.

And indeed,there is tons of material out there that calls on God,makes talismans in Allah’s name,and such.Plus there’s Sufism.

Now,I am not an Islamic Magician…at least not primarily.So mashing up conflicting philosophies is nothing new to me.I am well aware that Christianity forbids the practice of magick.Then again,it also forbids theft,killing,and prostitution,with Christians belonging to all of those backgrounds,because Jesus preached to them a message of forgiveness and mercy,and blah blah blah.

So,I’m pretty sure it is possible to be a Christian Witch.And I also know I am not one.I don’t belong to any direct religious path,and yet apply what I like about their philosophy into my life,and do away with what I don’t.And the same goes for the magic and spirituality,and mysticism.

I know I am going to get backlash from this.I know Christianity despises Black Magick,and I know that Black Magicians despise Christianity.I am not trying to sound like some kid who’s still in the shackles of his former religion,but I’m also not a rebel who completely denounces it.If one has merged with Allah,met with Krishna,evoked demonic legions,and gazed into the eternal Abyss than they know how to look past labels,and are able to merge with all forms of magic.

Because that’s what religions these days are.Not dogmatic oppressions of free will,and not lifesaving brilliant gifts from the divine.They are labels that set us all apart,labels that we aught to do away with.At the level of the Formative Plane(which is the farthest I have ever Soul Traveled,if you don’t include my trips to the ALL when I was seven) then one will notice that thousands of religions,millions of ‘‘one true churches’’ will all be transcended.And all that’s left is the tangible,and very real,spiritual power from which they all pull their power.

JMO!JMO!JMO!Don’t yell at me,as these were just my UPGs,ideas,ethics,and feelings.I’ve seen evil come from every path,and I’ve seen good come from every path.So I know that there is no such thing as universal morality,or universal good and evil.

Wow,that was a lot.

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Oh this is such a fun topic! Split if necessary Lovely Lady Eva, but I think that its quite enjoyable as is…

If you refer to Christian as a purely New Testament construct concocted by the Roman Catholic church and published circa 1611 in the original King James Bible, complete with apocryphal/deuterocanonical attachment, there is slightly less of a paradox than one would imagine. Of course, at that time, the ‘public’ was unable to read scripture. With the invention of the printing press, the Deuterocanonical writings were truly hidden away and not published; hence the word ‘apocrypha’ - means hidden; occult - means hidden. With good reason. The Wisdom of Solomon specifically speaks of magical practice. The book of Judith, quite empowering to women, etc. Why encourage slaves and children (legally idiots and not responsible for themselves) with that kind of power; why give a jackhammer to a ten year old child? Why allow a six year old to drive a car? The ones who actually seek will find, but do most persons seek? Or do they sit on their couches with their television blaring, beer in hand and whine about how life treats them? In my experience, most people truly believe that their public face, their facade, their shell is self. That the physical vessel is all there is; secular Satanism. The idea that the ancient brain (brainstem, cerebellum), the animal self is the reason for the development of the cerebral cortex, with its logic, personality, compassion and the like.

They never bother to attempt to discover who they are, why they do what they do, why things happen to them, and what they can do to change their perceptions, therefore circumstances. Childish behavior, incompetent behavior. Weak behavior.

Again, its entirely one’s perception. Is a Christian, one who follows the Christ within as a sovereign, a creditor? Or a weak slavish person, a corporate entity, a debtor who begs for mercy and forgiveness without understanding even the simplest facets of existence? Most Christians I know who adopt this label revel in weakness and celebrate incompetence despite a feigned belief that the Author and Finish of Faith, the Great Architect of the Universe, the Source/All is the mind within which the universe compassed. Is aligning with the Father, the ultimate Creditor through Christ/Grace a cancellation of debt/sin/misunderstanding by time-bound human vessels, making them co-creditors/co-heirs through Christ? If so, isn’t that a direct Willful decision to seize as much power as is available?

Is using magic in alignment with the Father’s will through Christ/Grace sin that can be mitigated through that same Grace? For example: I want to know if I should purchase a vehicle for which everything has fallen into place to do. Financially possible, desired, appreciated,…yet through prayer, its still a revelation (intuition & instinct) that this is a poor decision. A Christian could accept this and not make the purchase - weak in knowledge, and without growth in faith as a result. Or a Christian could use divination for more detail - grows in knowledge and therefore can have a greater appreciation for Creator and grow in faith. Or a Christian could simply observe the movements of the planets and realize that this is an inauspicious time for the purchase - grow in knowledge and therefore able to exercise faith to greater extent.

The thing about so-called Abrahamic religions is that it is assumed that The Old Testament, New Testament, Koran, Torah, etc. are set in stone. Yet, they are covenants/testaments/laws/relationships - all words that are synonymous.

BUT, we are time-bound in our corporeal vessels (bodies) until death do us part. And in contract law, all contracts change for the time-bound. ALL OF THEM. The written record is nothing more than a dead construct. In Memoriam. A closed cannon is a dead relationship with deity. It allows for no further growth, no futher revelation, no gnosis. Period. Amusing that the founder of the Mormons realized this even if he chose not to share it with the ones who desperately wanted rules (contracts/relationships/laws) set in stone. Those who want death/unconsciousness receive it.

So, by choosing to believe that any particular scripture is final, god-breathed, AND infallible, the practitioner is choosing to kill their relationship/covenant with deity. Anyone studying contract law, however is aware that any contract can be and is continually modified and changed. Now, keeping a record in memoriam can be a useful tool to try to retain the original ‘meeting of minds’ that created the contract in the first place, but for humanity, this is an impossibility as we have such incredibly vast and varied experiences that our human collective mind is never still; yet we are time-bound in our vessels.

The name of God is ineffable for us because we have absolutely no language to express ourselves adequately to each other. With the disuse of Latin, there is no mode to adequately express IDEAS, we have only poorly designed words. With the removal of classical education; no more grammar (data compilation skills), logic (data organizational skills), and rhetoric (data expressive skills), we are at an incredibly low point for connection and communication with humanity. Our relationships/contracts/laws with each other are difficult to maintain because understanding one another is difficult to do. Because words are contextual, and we have no context.

I say God. You assume I mean YHWH. But, what YHWH might mean to me vs you, if that’s even what I intend to convey in the first place, is going to be miles different depending on education, region, culture, etc.

Our specilization in various disciplines handicaps us to a massive degree. Someone is a lawyer, another person, a waitress, another person a lawyer from another country. Someone conceptualizes Grace through Ganesha who also died and rose from the dead after 3 days. The symbolism morphs and changes as humanity ebbs and flows through time and space.

I can practice magic and call myself a Christian because of how I conceptualize a Christian, not because of how another person does unless that person has had enough similar experience, education, and practice to do so.

closeted (klŏzˈĭ-tĭd, klôˈzĭ-)►

Being In a state of secrecy or cautious privacy.

See also: chamber, confidential, hide, private, seclude, sequester, shroud

Even the use of the word closeted by Biosynth, doesn’t jive with my experience because many witches/magicians/etc. here on this forum are closeted in some fashion as they practice in private rather than in public. They have 2 faces like everyone else. The public, corporation, dead entity. And the private living soul that powers the human vessel - the consciousness that resides Elsewhere, but periodically inhabits the human vessel.

I call myself Gwendolyn. But, I am not Gwendolyn. Spanish is a better language for this concept. Me llamo Gwendolyn. I am a soul and placing any restrictions/names/etc. on this is only a part-truth, a part-truth is a lie, a lie is death/written record. Even so far as calling myself a Christian is part-truth as its a label, but as my public face is my dead face anyhow, I call myself a Christian, and I also call myself Gwendolyn. And neither of those part-truths are me.

Even Corinthians 13 makes it clear. lol “When I was a child, I thought as a child, I spake as a child, I reasoned as a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror, then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part, then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.” Humans can know only lies, only part-truths, its only the degree that varies. And from an eternal paradigm, that means everything and nothing. Total paradox. Hence the requirement for Grace. Unmerited favor. Father is Law/Order/Justice, Mother is Chaos/Creativity, Son is Grace/Mercy. And of course every other quality that comprises love in its absolute fullness.

So, disillusioned

verb (used with object)
to free from or deprive of illusion, belief, idealism, etc.; disenchant.
a freeing or a being freed from illusion or conviction; disenchantment.

  1. disabuse, disenthrall, undeceive, disappoint.
    And yet, how many people have such a negative connotation with freedom? Isn’t freedom supposed to be a good thing?
    Doesn’t every human vessel seek total personal responsibility for their actions?
    Don’t they want to live fully?

Not that I’ve ever witnessed. Most like to hide behind insurance. Behind lies.

Christ/Lucifer, Grace & Gnosis, with Law/Order/Justice, with Chaos/Creativity/Wild Growth.

The reasons I’ve noticed for blood sacrifice as in the old testament with Azazel, the sacrificial scapegoat - require someone else to carry responsibility. Someone else enacts Justice.

And in the new testament with Jesus’ sacrificial lamb someone else to pay the price, to purchase the error and sin for which humans simply refuse responsibility; pass the blame, bitch and moan.

But, again, those are only two dispensations. And to dispense with something is to do away with it for the benefit of an individual. The old dispensation allows for blood sacrifice through mortal priesthood intervention, the new through ascended human intervention.

To me, it stands to reason that souls seeking to discover themselves will also desire to bear full responsibility for their actions and at all costs grow into adults. This is why I use my blood, and why I consider it the most sacred substance in existence; my existence, and why I could never dream of considering any bodily fluid that my vessel exudes to be repulsive or disgusting. Because I am aware that my soul powers my human vessel, and I fully forgive that vessel its errors, its unappealing qualities, and its infirmities. I love me, so I can love the vessel I call Gwendolyn, and everything about her, I love as would my dear stupid, precious, incompetent child. Myself, on the other hand is neither precious, nor incompetent, nor dear. Myself is Power. And by aligning with the Greatest Power, my small power simply ceases to exist.

Universal Law: In praesentia majoris potestatis, minor potestas cessat. In the presence of the superior power, the minor power ceases. Jenk. Cent. 214.

Its what’s made this incredible relationship/pact with Belial & Christ so delightful over the past year or so. And why I have no problem with my menstrual blood in any capacity, and why I am eternally grateful for the lunar cycle.

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I’m sorry but, I am just confused here. I read your post Gwendolyn and I feel like you were kind of preaching a little, like the way you contexted your reply seems very much christian to me to the point that I don’t understand how you could utilize blood sacrifice and also practice magick on the side. I know we are all free to form our own beliefs, I even consider myself ecclectic (with strong Luciferian views) but I mix a little of every type of magickal religion into my practices including Hinduism and paganism but nothing based on a monotheistic religion.

I mean christianity is monotheistic which is a religion that believes only one god can exist, there is no such thing as multiple gods and you are forbidden to acknowledge any other gods or idols, so how can someone be part of a monotheistic one god only religion, but practice magick that utilizes working with many gods, goddesses, demons etc.? And also, working with demons and goddesses. Goddesses are not even recognized by the bible because the bible likes to keep women in inferior positions as if our only purpose is to have babies and serve our husbands and be offered to angels as rape victims when our fathers sin. Yeah, we get raped by angels because our father sinned. I don’t even see how any woman could be part of a monotheistic religion as they all repress women, and some to an extreme.

And demons are considered the enemies of christians and christ, they see them as ugly creatures that float around possessing people against their will trying to convince them to turn to satan, so how could someone who considers themself a christian work with demons? I mean I could go on forever because all of this seems counter productive and ironic to me, like mixing two complete opposite sides together and saying it’s normal.

I am not critizing you Gwen, as yes, you are free to believe as you wish but to me this just seems very odd as you are mixing things from religions and belief systems that just weren’t meant to mix. It’s like having a half naked prostitute that worships god and goes to church on sunday marry a radical islamist. That relationship would not last long because the radical islamist would end up beheading her for walking around half naked as a woman and for believing in christ. I have had this conversation on pagan forums and also said, I don’t see how anyone could be a christian witch because paganism and wicca also conflict with christianity.

So in my opinion, yes you can mix and match with religions and become an ecclectic but there is still a fine line and certain religions that are not meant to be mixed and mingled and never were meant to be, because each one has such opposing views to the other it is illogical to join them. So certain religions, if you feel you identify with them they cannot be mixed with magick, paganism, LHP or anything similar because one side believes in a supreme god with no magick to be practiced by any of its followers and the other does not believe in a supreme god and believe magick can practiced by anyone.

There are just so many conflictions that I feel, if you are interested in magick but have any hint of interest in christianity you cannot reasonably mix it with a magickal belief system. In that case, I would think it would be easier to identify as just christian because if one truly was a christian, then their beliefs would prohibit them from contacting demons, making blood sacrfices, believing there is more than god that exists but if you believe in all of that and do spells and magick anyway, then you are going against what the christian god wants for you so in a way you are opposing and defying both sides which is just strange to me and why I am asking so many questions as I find this all very conflicting and unusual.

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Why, Ravens, you are a superbly wonderful person and have demonstrated my point admirably. Gracias.

Not only is my reply annoyingly preachy, it’s an utter paradox.

And you’ve convinced me that I really should return to university to attain my PhD in divinity/psychology/music/philosophy. After offsetting my prior student loans.

Then I can reasonably found my own Christian church. With open cannon, priestesses and priests, blood sacrifice, and of course sacrament, revering equally the gifts of the spirit and seeking to manifest the fruits of the spirit. Creating my own unilateral contracts/laws with my adherents who seek to be told what to do to live a full and beautiful life.

Because the Holy Spirit (Mother) evolves everything with the exception of Father/Son, this includes religion and religious practice.

Plato’s Republic, I quite enjoy. Particularly the concept of the Guardians.

This has gone in its own direction now so definitely deserves a new topic, so RavensAscent’s thread can stay relevent to her own practices and current possession work.

I don’t have time for the lengthy reply I’d like to make, so I must keep it brief. This is directed primarily at RavensAscent. Here in the States, we get a much different perspective, and education, as to the history and beliefs of Christianity. Thank the Puritans and Evangelists for that. Early Christianity is full of magick. There were, and still are, sects that practice(d) magick. Gnostics, Coptics, the list is long. Many of the “heretics” wiped out by Rome, were wiped out because of their use of magick. A bit hypocritical when you consider a Catholic High Mass is nothing more than a magick ritual.

Esoteric Christianity is alive and well. Gareth Knight is a splendid example of an esoteric Christian, though he’s often referred to as a Qabbalist, Hermeticist, etc.

Many people consider Christianity, in it’s earliest form, as an Initiatory System, rather than a religion. I can’t find an argument to make on that account. And, it needs to be remembered that the Roman Catholic Church, in reality, represents the shift of the Roman Empire from a military/political entity, to a religious entity. When Rome fell, the Church rose, and exercised the same power and influence as the former empire. The end game was the same: control of the masses. The only difference was, instead of accumulating wealth and power through conquest and force, as the Empire did, people willingly gave of their money and personal power to the Church.

It’s easy to see, as Americans, how we can feel magick and Christianity are mutually exclusive, but in fact, they are not, and never have been, at least outside of the mainstream. Hope that helps clear up some confusion for you.

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“Catholic high mass is nothing more than a magic ritual”

Exactly Chef, something else I also find confusing. My dad is a methodist pastor which is very close to catholic but without the rosaries and confessional stuff though, and he said he was buying some more candles for this years christmas church rituals. I was like wait a minute “rituals” I thought ritual was more of a magic term and ceremony was more appropriate for church related functions?

We got into a huge conversation about that and I said it’s odd you are calling the christmas ceremony a ritual now because to me, all along, the entire thing seemed like one big magic ritual. Lighting candles in a certain order that have color associations and only lighting them on certain days seemed very pagan to me. So I also found it funny how my dad and others like him could dismiss magick all together as fake (those who don’t beleive in it) and those who do beleive in it consider it a tool of the devil, yet clearly practice paganized versions of candle rituals in the church on easter and christmas.

But then again, this is also the religion that stole the pentagram and triquetra and tried to make their own versions of them then tried to say the design was theirs all along. So obviously christians and catholics are very conflicted about what to believe and what not to believe.

And Gwendolyn, I get the vibe you feel like my input to the conversation was targeted specifically at you. My response was not a personal attack on anyone. You started speaking of your christian views during a conversation about blood sacrifice and I found that out of the ordinary for what you typically would hear on an occult based forum so is it not only natural for my human instincts to kick in and cause me to question such statements?

I have heard many speak of how they mix their catholic upbringing in with their current wiccan views and such which does make sense to a certain degree as I even recognize that many catholic traditions seem to be pagan and magick based in their roots and also I am aware of communion, the drinking of wine (or grape juice in most non-catholic churches) to symbolize drinking the blood of christ and how his blood was shed as he died for our sins as mentioned in the bible but this was the first time I ever heard of someone reversing that around and they being the one who is offering the blood sacrifice.

Maybe I have not been exposed to such a wide array of mixed beliefs before so of course this is something completely new for me to take in and ponder. In my earlier magick days, the forums I frequented that also had those claiming to be wiccan christians or christian witches, they did have some unusual practices but most of them were opposed to the idea of blood sacrifice in general as like I mentioned before, only recently have more RHP practitioners stepped forward and started accepting blood sacrifice as something that was normal again.

So most of those members had more traditionalized wiccan views that saw blood sacrifice as something to be considered “black” or “evil” or out of context for their current belief system. Now, I do realize that in the more traditional forms of paganism, blood sacrifice is nothing out of the ordinaire. In fact, most considered it a requirement if you wished to please the gods and keep them on your side. So it was not uncommon to see a few members whose last 10 generations of their family were traditionalist pagans, the families that pass these views down to their children, to see them speaking of blood based ritual was nothing unusual although some of the wiccans squirmed at the idea of such practices.

And a few of them had one parent who was raised as a pagan and the other rasied catholic so even then, it was not too unusual because both of those religions believe in magick. Catholics do recognize magick as something very real so it is common practice to call a priest to your home if you feel it is being invaded by a malicious entity to have the priest attempt to remove the entity because both the family and the priest believe the entity is real. It is also not uncommon to see a catholic family, if their priest is unavailable or feels the issue is too small for the concern of the church, to contact a psychic medium, a Native American healer or shaman, or someone of a similar affiliation to handle the cleansing of their home when someone like a baptist would say there is no such thing as a psychic.

So while I may not have been exposed to such a broad range of mixed beliefs I do have somewhat of an education on this subject. But if I saw a 7th day adventist suddenly claiming to also be a voodoo practitioner I would definitely have to question them on what lead them to their beliefs out of curiousity because adventists are usually the type that think magick is bullshit and if you beleive you can do magick then it’s because the devil has you fooled into believing it, the type of people that would kill someone for sinning, you know the muderous religious cult kool-aid drinking copperhead handling types. So If I saw someone with an upbringing like that claiming to be doing dark voodoo based rituals it would be very weird to me.

So that’s what I meant when I said that mixing two pariticular belief systems can raise some questions. But just as we are free to believe what we want, we are also free to view others beliefs as odd or peculiar.

And Gwendolyn, maybe it was just me as your last comment seemed to be mainly sarcastic but I do have to applaud you for keeping a cool head during all of this. I ask these questions in an attempt to understand where you are coming from or what lead you to assume your beliefs but no one ever wants to take the time to explain why they feel that way or attempt to justify this for others who are confused, instead most people resort to cussing at the person asking the questions and the thread ends up being locked or deleted when the person asking the questions was doing so out of genuine interest.

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Ravens, I’m sorry if I came off sarcastically or facetiously. It was perhaps a result of a long exhausting week, and for that, I am sorry. I’ve been defending my unorthodoxy as long as I can remember and while, its good practice to keep the mind sharp and make sure that my beliefs stand up to scrutiny in my own head, sometimes, it can be tiring/frustrating/baffling trying to explain. So, yes, my tone/writing style (probably speech, too) is fairly preachy as I try to organize the thoughts that bounce about all day as events like preparing food, chores, work, etc. occur, as well.

A cliche I hear a lot and without even a modicum of understanding from most Christians is that Christianity is a relationship, rather than a religion. Truth. Though, most bury the relationship in …religion and religious bullshit. Recall that according to contract law, the definition of relationship is contract/law/pact/relationship/testament.

Yes, Christianity is full of magic, and is extremely initiatory; from admitting that the human vessel is finite, therefore ‘flawed’ and in need of divine Grace, therefore learning to forgive one’s self and others, by aligning with the Source as ultimate promulgator of every aspect of what we call ‘love’ (a ridiculous catch-all really), to Baptism by Water, that is publically repenting after the private acceptance of Grace.

Once a Christian has been initiated privately - a soul commitment/contract to strive for the Heavenly Father (Law/Order) through the Son (Grace) by accepting that the vessel must actually undergo death to attain that kind of power, and accepting that only an ascended human can emulate it; a Son of God, then the Christian has access to the divine Grace (fruits of the spirit made holy: think Galatians; love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, self-control, perseverence) in a totally different sense than using the corporeal body.

That is: This is a system entirely and utterly apart from the corporeal, no relation whatsoever to chakras, or the energetic body. Hence the verses regarding: By Grace are we saved through faith. And this is a gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast.

Now, working on the energetic body is of course a wonderful practice, yoga, meditation, and I partake liberally of those, but they are focused on only becoming a human living god and so are totally finite. The body is viewed as the vessel; the temple that houses the bound spirit (soul), and its a duty to care for it, but the vessel is NOT me. As in: When I go to court, and the judge asks if I am Gwendolyn, I can honestly say that I am not. I call myself Gwendolyn, but in reality I am a bound spirit (soul) inhabiting a body called Gwendolyn. I think of Gwendolyn as my property. Christianity focuses on alignment with Source - as Heavenly Father - freely and willingly. Not merging, not separating as own god, but alignment through my will as spirit, rather than Gwendolyn’s solar plexus chakra, seat of corporeal will.

This is a prime reason why Christians are so against strengthening the energetic body, the finite flawed vessel. They irrationally believe that a strong chakral system will allow the vessel to move away from Christ, that I would permit my vessel, Gwendolyn to begin feeling pride of her vessel self and breach the contract/relationship/pact with Heavenly Father.

Once that contract/relationship/pact is made privately, then all other relationships are downstream in the hierarchy, however. So, the sinners prayer: “I am flawed, I cannot do this on my own; I am in need of divine Grace; I fully and freely accept Christ’s sacrificial death as atonement for this finite vessel’s state of being finite. I choose fully and freely to accept Christ as Savior/Healer/Infinite Love.” The purpose being that accepting Grace allows for this gift to flow through the Christian upon request. Naturally, this is only upon request as we have free will. It is completely possible to fail to request this gift when necessary, moving out of alignment with Source - this will, of course, result in motion away from Heavenly Father’s Law/Order - motion back toward animal chaos. Direction of an adversarial lifestyle; fighting for position among animal/humans; satanism. Another paradox here; I also allow Gwendolyn to evoke Satan as an entity and converse without fear or issue. To me, this is logical. She wants to consciously know what obstacles lay before her so she can consciously make decisions to increase her knowledge. She venerates Lucifer as well; bringer of knowledge. But, they are not where she obtains Gnosis, that is from Source. They are assistants/tools/helpers, treated with the utmost respect. And in the ways that those entities prefer and are capable of receiving it, the aspects of divine love that she can gift them and receive from them. (However, according to Divine Law, things in part are dead; they are lies; so aspects of love are impure/false/illusory)

So, menstrual blood; a gift of my property’s corporeal vessel/temple because Grace is not something the demonic entities with whom I permit my property, Gwendolyn, to work desire or require; they are beings of energy of a different sort. Menstrual blood is the ultimate in my experience because it is the agent that nourishes chaos (impure/unholy Mother principle with which we are all born); until it is expelled from the vessel, its purpose is to create with its nutrient/hormone compliment. Blood excised from the body has different purposes depending upon location, time, stress (hormones), etc.

Angels, I rarely work with and not closely, so I cannot speak to a contract/relationship them.

The second initiation is necessary to undergo Water Baptism - that is to publicly confess the same things stated in the sinner’s prayer to the community of Christians (and world at large) and through collective Grace to give and receive community blessings. Hence the “it is more blessed to give than to receive.” God’s Grace is viewed as able to pour out into the surrounding community healing self and others. Again, this is not a result in any way of the corporeal vessel; not related to chakras, or energetic healing, or bioelectricity, or aural. The body is viewed as finite which is flawed. Of course, the power of the Heavenly Father through the Son can heal the body and whatnot, but that’s never the main purpose. Its all about alignment with source as a Christian Collective at that point. As I see it, the water immersion is immersion in community; a drop in the ocean - pure symbolism as guide. (In energetic [pagan] practices, the actual life/energy of the water its self is used.) If it is God’s will for a vessel to operate a certain way, then aligning with Heavenly Father will bring about that operation be it through paralysis, blindness, or the body of an athlete. Damned thing’s only a vessel. Which is why I like to have a practice to keep my vessel in the best shape possible; paradox. I’m not going to invite my beloved God into a place where I also house fucking twinkies, cheap beer, and a lot of thoughts about the latest sitcom. Not going to clutter my temple with shit, let her get fat, and lay about bitching and moaning. I’m going to work on perfecting my property’s mind so that bringing Gwendolyn into alignment with Christ is easy, a pleasure, a joy. So, ironically, that means working her ass off in every healthy way possible.

After Baptism by Water, then next requirement is Baptism by Fire. Just because, every human vessel is viewed as ‘sinful’ and ‘flawed’ it doesn’t preclude unloved; . We are gifted divinely with free will. So, a Christian who is aligned/striving for alignment to the Father principle through the Son principle has the third principle: Holy Spirit. At birth, our spirit is joined with body and together they function as soul; chaos, animal nature is created for survival. And we survive quite horrifically and painfully and chaotically; painful, brutish, and short; animal existence - adversarial. Some embrace this, some fight it and try to create beauty and peace. A Christian, however, through the aligment with Father through Son, can reweave the relationship/contract/pact back on its self and request Heavenly Father’s power manifested through the spirit, which santifies (makes holy) the unity of the soul. Again, nothing to do with the energetic body, though it can heal the vessel and control it as an act of will. However, the only act of will possible is the request for the Holy Spirit to manifest, the rest of the process is done through blind faith.

Here’s what it looks like in my experience. I allow Gwendolyn, my property, to do divination to foresee whether she should pursue a relationship/contract with another human vessel to whom she is attracted; runes, or tarot, or whatnot. Answer is quite positive and helpful, but Gwendolyn still cannot see how to get from here to there. The path is unclear no matter the readings. She looks at the heavens, reads her transits, looks for the best timing, but again, the tools…are not quite there. So, I direct that she pray. Begin by thanking Heavenly Father for His blessings, for her life, for everything; worship, gratitude for loving my finite vessel, for Grace. And then I request the Holy Spirit (sanctified Mother principle; Chaos/Creativity pouring from Law/Order, through Grace/forgiveness/mercy). And the icy burn and glossolalia that emits through her connection with my spirit completely transcends the entire energetic body; doesn’t matter if her chakras are clear that day, doesn’t matter if she’s eaten a shit ton of ice cream and her vessel feels like poo; doesn’t matter if she has the flu. Unlike working with her chakras, this is a total gift nothing to do with my/her works. But, its a divinely ordered chaos gift. She has no fucking clue what will happen; utter blind faith; it comes from beyond the consciousness and is totally uncontrollable save for turning it off. It might tell her exactly how to go about meeting the person she prefers, it may throw her to the floor convulsing, she might start singing like a fucking loon, she might suddenly have a migraine, or conversely have a migraine dissipate. It is a massive power surge that results in the perfect and appropriate healing/counsel/realignment with Heavenly Father, and it alters histamine levels, the prime neurotransmitter; oh science, how I adore it. And no, I never cite anything, because I don’t care to do so; 20 years researching every topic under the sun would have me doing nothing but citing various studies, papers, articles, experiences, and I’d never have time to analyze.

So, most Christians seem to prefer to live lazily, commercially (materialistically), and simply. They don’t seek knowledge. They take shit care of their vessel; mind, emotions, passions, body. But, when the real shit comes into their lives, they make an about face toward Law/Order (Heavenly Father) and request their get-out-of-jail-card (Grace). And weirdly, it works because they are so damned aware of their flawed finite state at that point because they basically stopped steering their vessel period… and can see the disaster imminent or have already crashed it. hah. And the only way that they can love their vessel at that point is though divine Grace. facepalm

Seems a stupid, boring way to live for Gwendolyn. She’d much rather push all limits. Work in each department. Only bother the CEO when she’s exhausted her vessel’s resources by using them, so to speak.

I see nothing wrong with learning Heavenly Father’s tools as long as I keep in alignment; remember who I am; remember who I am not. Keep my awareness of the vessel at the forefront and don’t slip into thinking that she with her errors, bitchiness, and tendency to bite her fingernails when she’s nervous is me.

And of course, I got to that place of comprehending the separation through use of chemical substances, another thing I have no issue with as long as the use is for research and learning or refreshment/healing, never for escape/non-thinking/non-analysis.

First praying to Heavenly Father through Christ, I stated my intent to attain knowledge and wisdom so that my faith could grow. (Stating intent is NOT entering a contract/altering a relationship/renegotiating law) Any other pact/relationship/contract is lower in the hierarchy than that which I have with Heavenly Father. With the assistance of Lucifer (gatekeeper) and Belial, I timed a journey so that I had the correct amount of menstrual blood available. Entering trance, and placing the blood on my crown chakra, I used their enns and evoked them, asked them to guard my vessel, and guide me so that I could return. This most obvious experience of being a spiritual entity was leaving my vessel entirely, experiencing the whole of the universe and rejoicing.

Then, there was the return. It was the most excruciating agonizing process imaginable, took about 3 hours. Me, the infinite being, was slowly forced into this bizarre creature/container/vessel. I could move only stubby appendages, strange sounds emerged (cries of terror, utter sorrow/despair), odd cravings/compulsions (starving/needed immediate food), then when I allowed it to operate as its pre-programmed will pleaded, I discovered that most functions were automatic (breathing, eliminating, swallowing), even the creatures inhabiting it (cells, and smaller entities) were overseen/controlled by this weird being/container. And the container/vessel was full of thoughts/ideas/expectations already since it was an adult rather than a baby. This was the worst experience I have ever encountered in my awareness with the vessel Gwendolyn. Shattering. Agonizing. Illuminating. From singing with the stars to being essentially trapped in this human container. Gah. Even my thoughts are trapped and twisted by the container because it perceives. The genii wants nothing more than to be free of the lamp.

Then again…the lamp is a world of perception that fascinates, so fortunately, the genii is easily distracted within. And all those other lamps crashing into this lamp also fascinate.

Anyway, these reasons are why Christians aligned with Heavenly Father through Grace can do some crazy shit when they manifest the Holy Spirit, even breaking the hold of powerful Loa …be it God’s will. Often it is. Other times, not so much. Regardless, the glory is all to be given to God.

As in the Lord’s Prayer:

Our Father who art in Heaven (divine Law/Order)
Hallowed be thy name (God’s name is ineffable as we finite vessels cannot convey it to one another)
Thy kindom come (bring law/order to my vessel)
Thy will be done (I align my will with yours)
On earth as it is in heaven (as above, so below)
Give us this day our daily bread (provide divine nourishment)
And forgive us our debts (as ultimate creditor)
As we forgive our debtors (only through alignment/credit with Source)
And lead us not into temptation (spirit sanctified - Holy Spirit, rather than animal)
For thine is the kingdom (the vessel is yours by my will to align with you)
And the power (power apart from the vessel)
And the Glory for ever (glory manifested through the vessel, but not from the vessel)

And her sermon ends. Tired Gwendolyn vessel to ceases typing and is allowed delicious organic chocolate devoid of dairy.

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You have an interesting take on things Gwendolyn, have you thought about running a simple blog or site, or maybe writing e-books, to get it out there more?

There are very few authors who tie magickal practice to Christian faith in this manner and I think you’d be performing a service to people who don’t want to stray from their faith, but feel the call to magick and are troubled by that.

Although I’ve never been a Christian, when I was pursuing my own RHP “path to merger” using methods based on yoga, magick was something we were expected to shun since it created new karmic entanglements, so I’m personally familiar with the dilemma of one’s religiously-oriented path being in conflict with the idea, the NEED, to enact magick.

Work that helps people see this in a new way is valuable IMO, and deserves wider exposure. :slight_smile:

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Gwendolyn, I also think you should get a blog going, or some e-books. Or at the least, starting more threads here. Your perspective is different and thought provoking. You should consider writing more.

I’m of the general belief that one needs to understand all sides of a position. To be good at healing and protection from baneful magic, learn how curses work. If you want to be a great leader, experience being led. To this end, I am neither pro- nor anti- any path. Nor am I pro- nor anti- any religion. I invite everything that resonates with me.

What I’m saying is, the knowledge you share here provides a counterbalance that encourages people to either challenge their beliefs and systems, or embrace them with sounder conviction. I see this as good for everyone.

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What they said.Positively inspirational.

It also shows that innate beauty in the Left Hand Path that’s very laissez-faire,that everything is permitted,and that the only ideology,and philosophy that’s true is the one you define.If your ethics,and such match that of the religion of your birth,then there is absolutely no reason to part with it.

Blessings and giggles on you all!

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