Are we meant to bargain and make deals every time?

I was conversing with a demon and I’m still a beginner. It came across like Watto the character in Attack of the Clones the slave trader, a bit like an Arab haggler. Now these 72 Goetic demons are Arabic haha, right? My question is do we have to organize a deal every time to get them to fulfill our desires? If so how do we go about that? Do we have to suggest something we do for them in exchange? Do we bring a gift, food?

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I don’t think so no, most of the time if there is any back and forth between a magician and demon, the demon is trying to get you to adjust certain things in your life that will better help it fulfill the reason it was called. The one thing they all want more then anything is to act upon this world so they need little motivation other then being summoned.

Gifts,food and things like that, all depends on what system your using, vodou for example very heavy into giving physical objects to low to get the best results, but your average Goetic demon just wants something to do and a little acknowledgement for all their works, which reminds me…

So if you want to light a candle for them or offer some incense most of the time that’s more then enough, unless you want to do a pact with one, but that’s a whole different ball game. So yeah.


Cool, so tell me more about these pacts, are they necessary? Why would one wanna make such a pact? Inclination? Practicality?

Pacts are when you really have to do some bargaining, they are for long term goals. Why make one? Power, Money, Sex, you name it. :wink:

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Ok, how is it done? Are we talking favours for these demons? Does one just ask it if it want to make a pact? If its a Goetic demon, how could you help it out or do a favour for it?

Ask it?

Then it makes an offer? So, in effect it’s like visiting a bank manager for a loan?

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More like going to a martial arts master, in that in order to learn from him you have to show a lot of devotion, not just to him but to what your doing, So you can become like him and do what he does.


What I have found in my pathworkings with the Infernal Empire is that Contracts and Pacts (where I define a Contract as being where a particular long-term service is requested, and a Pact as being where a long-term connection for the purpose of attaining communion and Gnosis) are usually made with the being in question, and then run past a member of the Infernal Trinity in my path, Mephistopheles, the Mind of the Beast, and if the Contract or Pact is deemed to be within the powers of those involved to be attainable and reasonable, then He gives the deal His Seal, thus making it an official and binding deal.

So regarding the original question, not all workings are necessarily under the criteria of Contracts or Pacts; many of the workings performed with the Goetic Order are typically Operations, where a specific task is sought after which the Goetic Royal in question is capable of assisting the Querent (or Occultist seeking power or information to complete a task) in ascertaining. For these Operations, an exchange occurs between the Querent and the Goetic Royal without a Contract needing to be made, since it is kind of like how an ordinary cash transaction does not require the signature of the customer to be completed since it is an everyday, low cost, and cash only transaction; this same principle applies to your more everyday sort of Operations.

For commissions of power, where a great amount of power for a task is sought by the Querent, that would be when a Contract would need to be made, sort of like having to sign for a larger transaction. I have found that many of the principles used in Economics are used in dealings with the Infernal Empire, but with more allowances depending on the dedications offered by the Querent, their Initiations, their overall current, and the primary objective of their path may grant them certain permissions in workings from the Infernal Elite (high ranking members of the Infernal Empire outlined in the Dukante Hierarchy, many of which also are contained with the prominent Goetic Order), especially if their overarching goals align with or are in favor of the objectives of the Infernal Empire.

Just my take on the subject matter, hope it helped at all!


Awesome post I hear good things about S.Connoly also, haven’t checked her work out though.