I’ve always had an interest in magickal orders, though was never able to join one because I live in the middle of nowhere.
But it seems increasingly as though they are outdated in today’s world.
I know E.A. used to have the O.A.A., though not sure how that worked. Then apparently he shut it down and just released the book with all the exercises.
Do you think magickal orders have any place today? And if not, is there something to take their place?
It seems like orders are a pre-internet way to ensure that the right information can get to the right people. In an internet age though, not only is information easily available to everyone, but it’s also hard to keep anything secret. If I want to have all the texts written by some order or other, unless they are really obscure, then it will generally be pretty easy.
Once that is removed, that that was pretty much the reason they were so popular for so long, the next big purpose for orders is doing large rituals that require lots of people. However, I’m not even convinced that having more people is necessarily a good thing.
Good points.
For me the appeal is Also the social aspect—interacting with like-minded people. Though this forum fulfills that purpose pretty well.
True, and it also goes without being said that relationships in person always have greater potential for growth and intensity. You may spend a bit of time on the behalf of someone you’re friends with on the internet, but how many would you sacrifice your shed blood for? Or how many would you spend hours on end trying to benefit, yet you see these prayer-circles that will spend up to five hours at a time trying to bless someone they go to church with.
I do not think they are outdated. I think some like OTO, have moved pretty far from what they were designed to do. I’ve visited really large OTO groups like the one in the Washington DC Area that seemed to have almost zero to do with magick and magickal instruction. The overall vibe of the group is more like a liberal political gossip group. For every 5 minutes they spend discussing magick and spirituality they spend an hour planning a group showing at the next “pink hat”, “Pro-Choice” or “LBGTQ” rally.
Don’t get the impression that I have a problem with those activities. To each their own. But Thelema , The Book of The Law and magick in general seemed to have been forgotten by the group and was replaced by partisan politics. This was one of OTO’s larger or more well known groups in the US.
In all fairness I have heard that many smaller groups for OTO seem to be a bit more magically focused. I have not been able to visit any of them to find out first hand.
I would be inclined to join such a group to get a magickal foundation. But I would also be inclined to filter what I learn because a lot of groups, even a few newer ones like the Temple of Astarte cling tooth and nail to very old traditional ritual practices and reject any mention of experimentation, simplification or revision of the processes.
Just purely because we may have new members reading this topic, I briefly draw attention to this forum’s “no posts that have politics as their core premise” rule at this location, so no-one is misled into thinking a similar politically-oriented group on here would be suitable.
Mod hat off, orders will never die out completely I don’t think, people like to be part of something, but many will change in form to something smaller, or less tightly bound, and probably some will evolve, others devolve and be homes for petty backbiting and powerplays.
I get that. I was not trying to raise politics as a topic. Quite the opposite in fact. My objection to the OTO group I mentioned was that it seemed to be to politically focused and partisan. I went there with the idea that magick would be discussed and if I joined - taught and the opportunity to participate afforded to me.
I was never a huge Aleister Crowley acolyte and I am not a Thelemite. All that said, I recognize Crowley for a lifetime of attempting to refine magickal practices and “walk the walk” as they say. I do not disagree with Thelema or The Book of The Law either. I even admire it’s content. I was simply never struck with it’s vibe to such a degree that I wanted to adopt it as a part of who I am.
I hope magical Orders will live forever. I absolutely love my covens and the entities we are working with 
An individual coven would be ideal for most people I think. The group is not bound by any rules or principles placed upon them by a larger governing body and can audit and change any practices and traditions they see fit with little or no bureaucracy.
The OAA is non functional?
Asenath Mason’s Order “The Temple of Ascending Flame” was created on 2012 and is of the Draconian Magick Path but seems to be open to exploring and developing an individual along their owen personal magick path, but of course also seems to encourage and possibly require one to take part in certain group workings or activities. I haven’t visited them so don’t 100% take my word for it but reading Mason’s books as well as talking to their high priests Bill Duvendack a couple times and reading his books that is the notion I felt.
Here’s the link to the temple’s website: http://www.ascendingflame.com
Magickal orders have existed, and continue to exist, for a variety of reasons.
In the beginning, there was an aura of mystery about them, since only members had access to their teachings. As previously mentioned, this is no longer the case.
Some people believe in a type of orthodoxy, something akin to the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox conception of apostolicb uccession - what the original group (like the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn) or teacher (like Aleister Crowley) taught has been handed down in an unbroken line. Some people call this “legitimacy”. But in today’s age of experimentation, this is no longer as important.
Nevertheless, there is the allure of “we have the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth” that draws people to them, in a way that makes them feel superior to the rest.
Sociology aside, though, there really isn’t much use for orders any more.
Thanks for your response @ExTenebrisVictoria. Do you think there is anything that will replace the magickal order, or simply solitary practice?
Magical orders can be useful for learning. EA has had spirits lead him to various orders, including a Mormon religious order, as he describes in his books Questing After Visions and Ipsissimus.
Sometime the spirits will require you to learn something specific that only an order may teach. Once you have the knowledge needed, the spirits will tell you to leave. The problems arise when you buy into the dogma of the order and cease to grow in spiritual power, stagnating instead.
It doesn’t exist as a physical group, it’s self innitiation and you basically tick of the exercises as you work through the book and thereby also self innitiate all the way up to the 18th flame.
It’s former former and newer members eventually met up in the astral or higher planes or maybe even meet physically. E.A still teaches the lessons in his consultations if you ask him about it, as in he helps you out with your hurdles with the lessons.
I was actually looking at joining this very same OTO group and I gathered the same impression. While they claim to practice various rituals, it seems as if its nothing more than a LGBTQ club
I, personally, tend to avoid magical orders like the plague. I don’t like being told what to do in my practice. I don’t like being told that somebody else has authority over me when it comes to what I do whenever I speak to spirits. Of course, that’s my personal choice. If you want to go join up with a group, go through their initiations, and everything else, have fun, feel free, and watch out for idiots on the way.
Yeah I agree I just never was deeply into crowley’s world. I use a couple of his rituals but his thelemite philosophy though not bad just wasn’t for me either.
I don’t think they’re outdated… I’ve just never figured out what would fit me and beyond an intro talk to Amorc never ventured out too far, there is one that’s free online I’ve meant to do and again I haven’t bothered… so I can’t speak from direct experience in any
I think it’s a bit like mainstream school… you can learn on your own, or you can find a school with an ethos that suits you - there are a million different types bc some work better for some and some might lean into worldviews that suit people better eg you get christian schools and muslim schools… neither teach only Christianity or Islam but are a more favourable learning environment perhaps to those who identify with them.
I’m that person who’d like to but also can’t be that bothered… mainly because I can find material online and don’t wanna sign up to something that restricts me and well unless I do I won’t really know what I could get from it - it might be a much faster path… it might be a more restrictive one 
Must work for some!
The brotherhood is strong through the monthly workings. Magical orders are the best. Is also a very potent protection