Now that I think about it, this is interesting. At first he was all for evoking the angel Raphael (love em to death, (and I know he can see this, love ya Raphael) but all the sudden, hes against it…
1 Like
Yeah, reckon she’s a tad confused at the minute. It happens to the best of us, I damn near went insane when I agreed to defend a forum form negative energy ( didn’t help that our founder was damn near fully cursed ).Took me a few weeks to feel better.
I’m sure she’ll be back at it soon enough
1 Like
He is a she?
Oops, I blame autocorrect
For a hot minute I thought I saw history repeat itself between me and ashtkerr
1 Like
If you call on spirits under a specific mask, in this case presumably Joy Of Satan, you’ll probably see them show up looking blond, the same as the Imperial Arts author sees demons looking ugly and weird, because he’s a grimoire trad. guy.
I don’t place expectations on them, and they take all kinds of forms for me, including totally non-athropomorphic.
Same with angels - you go to them assuming they’re these bad guy hustlers, you’re going to limit what you get.
You know how, to get online and view a website, you need a program called a browser?
You can set browsers to make all the text on sites come out a specific way, you can block javascript (which gives a lot of the interactive functionality & other aspects on a web page, and blocking it can totally cripple the way some sites display) - and the belief you take to any magickal interaction seems to be like that.
It seems to affect what kind of manifestation you get, including limiting some of the ways the spirit will act, or what it will say to you.
Note that even with 25+ years experience in magick, I’m still only saying “seems to be” because I wouldn’t presume to know it all.
So, belief isn’t a passive thing, in magick - it can affect what you get delivered to you!
This is the part where your own power as a magician comes into play, and if you hand that right to define spirits over to other people, who have disempowering stuff woven into their system right through (Imperial Arts no less, in his own way, than JoS), you may end up limiting what you get, just like using NoScript to block all javascript at all times.
Meanwhile, here’s a fine upstanding chap who will block all Abrahamic faiths and the energies associated with them: The Demon COHZIER.
10 Likes
This ^
1 Like
Yeah It seems like we have someone from JoS here. He forgot to mention that we are in war with Jehovah.
1 Like
I’m surprised this made it as a ‘hot’ topic. Since we’re here, where do you all stand on joy of satan anyway ? You find the Nazi stuff repugnant or do you stand with it ?
JoS has some good meditations. And good advice/techniques for working with your chakras.
1 Like
Yup I agree. They have awesome meditations and techniques for energy work and stuff. Also It’s good source of information if you filter out all Nazi bullshit. I would say It’s misuse of magick to promote antisemitism and shit. Someone already mention that in another topic that nazism and magick have been always really close.
I hate it. Flat out. Let me put it this way, I hate racism and bigotry with a burning passion… Something Nazism falls under… As for their meditations and what not, I’ve never tried them but since you guys say they’re good, I’ll suck it up and see what I get
Regarding the OP, who by the way has acknowledged on another thread that we don’t need to be battered with posts like this: I’d go one step further than Asbjörn Torvol has above, and say, if you want to be dogmatic, be dogmatic – but know that you’re making a choice.
You have the power in that situation – I have to drop this in right around here:
There’s a good case to be made sometimes for subjective synthesis – synthesising, wilfully creating, immersion in a belief system, to work to the maximum with one specific current, type of entity, or whatever.
I’ve experienced this myself when I worked with Ahriman and the influence was profound, I couldn’t stomach certain kinds of foods that were linked to Ahura Mazda, and I got great, life-changing results because of that, because I threw myself in 100% and didn’t try to “cheat” or look for loopholes.
And prior to that, in my RHP era, I threw myself 100% into that to the apex point of merger, which is what has become the foundation of my work with magick, and again I didn’t cheat, maybe eat a tuna sandwich, bet on a horse race, whatever, because I was totally dedicated at that time to getting the goal and I didn’t see any value in distractions.
Even on here, when I coach people through the core shamanic system, one of the biggest problems comes when people try to work in bits of other systems before they’ve even begun, which is understandable, and that system will rapidly adapt to more or less anything you want to syncretise it with – but at first, the only way to be certain of making the interface this provides is to do it exactly as written, and as taught to probably tens of thousands of people over the years.
If you’re making beef stew, make beef stew – don’t add sprinkles, sushi, and a handful of Lego bricks because you didn’t want the group “non-food items” to feel left out. 
But when you get really good at beef stew, you might decide that adding some dried apricot, or bacon, or whatever is going to enhance your recipe, and that’s a decision made from mastery, from deep immersive knowledge of what makes a really good beef stew.
A lot of people criticise wiccans because they will choose a god, and a goddess, from pretty much any pantheon and attach whatever attributes and modern values they think are great to these spirits, and in my own experience, firsthand and personal, of changing reality in my own life and for others through magick, I get that – you CAN often work successfully, even on the same project, with spirits from different pantheons, paradigms, and whose lore and legends seem to clash, but ONLY if you’ve already come to know them tolerably well, to the extent you can ask questions and receive information accurately.
Other times, probably not so much – they may be in opposition for a reason, because everything other than the formless Source has qualities, meaning it IS one thing and therefore is NOT another, and by the time you get to entities like gods and demons, those details are going to be complex enough that you may get harmonic clashes.
Harmonic clashes? Every key on a piano is capable of creating truly beautiful and inspiring music, but you can’t just mash a bunch of them together at random and assume the outcome will be anything other than cacophany.
This is because discord (which, again, also has its place in music when used with full understanding of the effect, as a counterpoint or emphasis against harmony) arises when certain frequencies are struck together at the same time – as a general rule, any two or more directly adjacent white notes on a piano/keyboard should never be sounded unless you’re aiming for a dissonant effect by choice.
(There’s a full explanation of this in music, with examples, here.)
Sometimes opposing things work well – but if you’re undertaking a serious project, you need mastery of the individual elements, which in magick means personal experience of working with the spirits somewhat “by the book” to begin with before you’ll know when to do the equivalent of adding black pepper to strawberries, or a squeeze of lemon to chicken chow mien.
To go back to the OP, and what I posted further up this thread, the JoS system is a choice, a whole current and system that people do get results from, but it’s not the whole of the truth.
If you want to insist all your demons show up looking like Chris Hemsworth (and there’s certainly nothing wrong with looking like that! amirite, ladies?) then go for it, but you’re also going to limit their opportunity to show up looking like muscular ram-headed gods in armour, or strangely maternal dark green three-headed snake Queens (love to beloved Buné there!).
And those aspects have lessons, and usefulness, and can teach us different ways to work with these spirits that would never otherwise appear if we insist they show up in anthropomorphic drag.
So yeah, choice – that’s the difference between a magician, and a religionist – a religionist gives over power to absolutes, which then bind his or her actions and eventually even dictate the things he or she may think about, clamping down tighter and tighter on free will; but the magician chooses what absolutes to use, for the experience or for a purpose, and then, when to abandon them in pursuit of his or her personal agenda.
But they never have mastery in their own right.
That just means a lot of people replied, it’s an automatic thing the software does.
2 Likes
Love the koetting meme btw
I know, they did a whole little run of those, this one is my absolute fave:
His eyes are amazing that’s all I gotta say lol
That’s quotes everything though
I will approach, invoke, or evoke anything I see fit. Should something make it’s presence know to me spontaneously, then I won’t prevent it.
My default position is of showing respect. This goes for the living as well. I will respect priests and witches as a default starting position.
Respect is sometimes a tool used to get things from the living, but most of the time it’s genuine. Once I lose respect, all bets are off. Demon, Person, whatever. I reserve the right to judge, but won’t make sweeping generalizations about a class of entity. Judgement is earned.
Raphael’s light/current has been tremendously helpful. Bune and Marabas have been exceptionally good to me. (Oddly enough)
A particular entity of African origin thought me an important painful and frightening lesson, with no prior relationship with me at all. He could have killed me. Instead he gave me conditions on when I can contact him again.
An open mind is all that is required. Prejudices, dogma and brainwashed garbage can get you hurt.
1 Like
I don’t generally want to work with Catholic saints, because I don’t like what they believed in, nor the system that promotes their names and attributes. In a weird way that’s showing respect, by not attempting to basically exploit them when we’re on such different pages, so to speak.
I don’t see that as a bad thing, to be honest, we’re magicians, and “thou shalt not be selective” is just as dogmatic as “only evoke spirits with Z in their names” or whatever.
We always have the right to choose what we will and won’t allow into our lives, especially because connections to spirits can affect our lives in such profound ways. A person can always change their mind later if their experience and observation suggests they’re missing out - coming from the whole white-light background, I ruled out working with anything “demonic” for years.
Spirits (at least the ones we know about) seem to gain and benefit from being summoned to our world and everyone has the right to refuse to give this to a spirit whose general agenda they disagree with. We just have to remember that they’re not like us, and our sensitivities are not going to be shared in the same way, you only have to read any Greek, Roman, or Egyptian legends to see that people understood that very well in the past.
4 Likes
How about we just stop associating morality and species? No matter what you are, individuality comes first and all can choose what they want to be. There are friendly angels and hostile angels. Friendly demons and hostile demons.
2 Likes
It might sound insane but the Lucifer being thrown to earth from heaven is I think all brainwashed bible guilt fueled bullshit, in an attempt by catholic Church which worked push people away from our true creator and God,that’s my believe Lucifer is in astral so not thrown stuck on earth god that wiped out everyone everything for eating from tree of knowledge reason for great galactic war wiped out history gives merit to fact therom Angles are the arsholes and thus more dangerous judgemental it was Lucifer who wanted us to learn from the forbidden tree of knowledge! or its possible Lucifer wiped out the watchers who were miss treating his creation us who knows the,truth