An NDE Account [UPG disclaimer applies, as usual]

The following is, as best as my facility with words may allow, my account of what may be called a ‘Near-Death Experience’. For those who have expressed the interest and posed the questions leading up to my public revelation of this experience, I must thank you for your role in encouraging me to construct the bridge that will begin to connect this years-long cultivation of inner strength and vision with the shared world of practical actions (and I do believe that this account’s reaching the right people will bear wonderfully forbidden and fateful fruit) and cultivated effect.

Before coming to this decision, this sort of experience was the kind that remained consigned to personal communications only, for several reasons. First, my military enlistment had not yet expired, and it may not have been beyond the conscience of overseers not as intelligent as I but unashamed of passing judgement on matters beyond their perception to hold an opinion on my mental health - the thorough indoctrination of even our mental health professionals relegating them to an ultimately materialist-informed dogma from which to judge the ‘truth’ of any experience they may offer an (all too often entirely unsolicited!) opinion on.

Secondly, and perhaps less ignobly ‘rationalized’, I have for a long time held to the belief that such experiences should remain intensely personal, that one individual’s real contact with a higher reality should remain only valid for that individual. Thus did I hope to avoid attracting ‘followers’, of perpetrating a ‘religion’, of watering down any real wisdom gained through being handled by those who had not been initiated in real experiences of their own. To an extent this insistence on experience to qualify any pretension to opinion remains with me - I have only been shown the suitability of sharing some personal experiences to serve as an example for others’ individual quests. And, some correspondence being had with other travellers not content to rely on word of distant things second-hand, a great significance may be found in what, from individuals’ separate experiences, continually surfaces as shared observation.

Finally, and in light of my current understanding perhaps a little ridiculously, I was lately of an opinion that an experience such as this one was ‘Sacred’, and I would be ‘profaning’ it by sharing with those who were not inclined to seek this out for themselves. I still regard it as a sacred experience. But one of the chief reasons for this most recent move on my part in the direction of ‘Breaking the Silence’ has been for the benefit of those who would seek, if only they had some idea of a possible direction; who might make the trial, if they had some encouragement that such far-off destinations might have some truth; who might begin a journey of their own if ever some word of a strange traveller made them stop in the midst of their regulated, parochial life and wonder if such a strange place beyond the horizon were not the most truly reasonable explanation for such a divergence. To share this, now, because it is sacred, and as a reminder to those who search that there still are sacred things in this world, if only they will refuse to close their eyes and stay put.

But the decision has been made, and the account will follow. I will endeavour to portray these essentially wordless experiences as faithfully as my command of words will allow. A few minor details, such as the entire (mundane) circumstances enabling this experience of Beyond, are omitted in practical consideration to my everyday life as it remains in the present and is planned into the mid-range future. In all of the most important matters, however, I will attempt to provide as informative and honest (sans religious ambition, for one thing) a description as perhaps any public in recent memory has had access to, and within these parameters (and with these caveats) I will begin my description of the act of dying.

As much as I understood on some level that a point of no return had been reached and that something was approaching which would forever change my perception of reality - possibly something that I would not survive - the consciousness of my rational-mind proved remarkably resilient - willfully stupid - in trying to shut out complete awareness of this fact, of rationalizing away the extraordinary and making up explanations, above all, to preserve the fragile ego and save it from the threat of reflection and acknowledgement of that which infringed upon its preferred way of interpreting the world.

My heart, never unhealthy, was beginning to beat at a truly frantic rate while I sat inactive on the couch - but there could be all manner of reasons for this. True, I felt exceedingly strange in my relation to the space around me and the ‘flux’ of time - but was that not standard fare for someone who dared to hold poetic ambition? My mundane senses became sharpened and sensitive to a prodigious degree, and I felt that this was mounting to some significant crescendo - but could not this, too, be explained away self-satisfactorily, given enough time? Given enough time, perhaps, it might have been.

As my heartbeat showed no signs of slowing down, my mundane-consciousness was finally forced to admit that something entirely unprecedented was in the process of unfolding - and it was beyond my ability, or at least understanding, to stop. With this acceleration of my vital processes approaching a point which could not for long be sustained came a surprising equanimity and a resolution for detached observation and calm embrace of the uncharted course that Fate laid out ahead.

One thing that I recall in particular was how immense and monolithic sounded the little wall-clock whose repeated movements of the second-hand consistently washed over my awareness as unending waves of sound and time. That repeated ticking, loud as artillery in the confines of the living room, came to dominate all other sounds and subsume the whole of my awareness, almost. My eyes became more sensitive to the lights, but before I could attempt to stir my vision grew more dim as if the room became swiftly swathed in shadow. My skin, and in particular the hairs of my arms and neck, became extremely sensitive to the tiniest air currents within the room, and then, as my heartbeat reached a straining pinnacle of trying to beat its way from out my chest, that peculiar feel like static electricity in my vicinity. Simultaneously, the newfound sensitivity of my hearing not only picked up more and more sounds from within and around the house but seemed to be increasing its range more and more towards the upper end of the spectrum - tones and hums and whines of higher and higher frequency.

While all of this culminated into a peak of physical hyper-awareness, I noticed something very strange. The time in between my heartbeats was becoming greater again - perhaps a welcome return to normalcy - but at the same time, so too did the perceived time in between those colossal, thunderous movements of the clock’s second-hand. As my experience of time began stretching out into a strange ‘in-between-time’, I found myself in a strange state of relative quiescence. Suddenly, like the bursting of a bubble, my hearing equilibrated once more (or perhaps was overcome), and I found myself encapsulated within a tranquil quiet unencumbered by my hyper-awareness of the moments before. Instead, there was a strange…ambience…which was sensorily interpreted by my senses of hearing and touch simultaneously as a semi-electric ‘charge’ in the air - one in which time found itself ‘slowed’, and space - ‘opened’.

When I say that ‘Space Opened’, what I am trying to convey is that while I remained sitting in the same room as before, occupying the same mundane dimensions as before, my awareness was now cognizant of what might best be described as other spatial dimensions intersecting and alongside - it was the same room, but I could now see that there was much more to it than I had known! As I looked both through and into the space around me, I was met with a new realization of just how vast were the gulfs of space lying between the Things we are normally so fixated upon, who remain miraculously supported upon and within that eldritch Space all the same.
Very impressed with all this in spite of some cause for alarm at my subsiding heartbeat (or perhaps in danger of becoming forever lost in the rapidly dilating Space between heartbeats, hell, I don’t know), I raised my hand before my face, and even this was sensorily interpreted in a strange new light. There was more of a delay - or reverberation? - between my brain’s volition to movement and the actual manifestation of this nervous impulse down my arm and to the tips of my fingers and, although I still felt this motion through that strange electricity-like ambient hum that also formed the background of my hearing, watching this willed motion actually unfold with my eyes was an act of beholding a spectacle more distant-seeming than a part of my own body should have been - never before had I felt quite so much like an electric brain manipulating mere nervous puppet strings to control a body that was not really me. In fact, this normal physical body now seemed downright alien - a strange and foreign thing put on like a masque, but not wholly identical with my original essence.

All of my physical senses at this point were growing very subdued, or rather phasing out as my awareness kept ‘shifting gears’ in a sense very similar to the way the range of my hearing had been rising to accommodate higher and higher frequencies of sound. I felt like my senses were shifting their attention to a much subtler field, and that these senses were more identical with what might be called my essence or soul as I began to leave my strange and temporary body-masque behind.

I blinked, and suddenly across my vision - not on the inside of my eyelids but ‘cutting out the middleman’ and displaying directly into the part of my brain which was prepared to process signals from the physical media - lay a bizarre and otherworldly visage! It was an entity’s head, simultaneously partaking of elements both insect and reptile. It was shaped more or less like the head of a praying mantis, but covered in numerous iridescent little rainbow-coloured scales. It should have been quite a shock, but honestly at this point it made just as much sense as everything else and I had already made up my mind to meet my fate with dignity and calm aplomb. Its mandibles moved, and sounds issued forth to me - not solely and imaginatively ‘within my head’ but falling directly upon the sensory medium of my ears! I could tell it was speech, it was structured and conveyed in some meaningful way, but I could not understand its language. It seemed almost ‘robotic’ in that it consisted of different beeping and mechanical tones, all through an intense electronic crackle like a megaphone. After this, I could not tell that its eyes betrayed any motion, but something convinced me intuitively that it was looking off to its right - my left.

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I opened my eyes again, and now the dark room seemed to be infiltrated by a faint light from somewhere. Casting about, the source was so small and faint that I almost missed it, but there a little ahead of me and near the ceiling in a corner was a little golden spot about the size of a dime. It was too small to make out, but it seemed to be somehow ‘turning’ upon itself in a way which my spatial understanding was not quite adequate to interpret. It seemed to have been floating there (or rather, in one of those strange Spaces between our own) stationary, but as soon as I noticed it, it began to move out of the corner towards me at a languid pace.

The closer it got, the larger it grew - beyond what a simple change of linear-spatial perspective might bring about - and I saw that it was definitely revolving around itself. The number and relation of its dimensions eluded my appraisal, but on some of the revolutions it somehow revealed itself to have - from some angles - a tunnel-like path leading through its centre. At this point I remember thinking, yep, this is the stereotypical ‘light’ people always talk about going into - I must really be dying, then. This understanding seemed to ‘activate’ this ‘gateway’ still further, as its motion rapidly accelerated and it swelled into a circular portal of nebulous golden ‘light’ that hovered a couple of feet in front of my face. The inside was completely invisible to me; it might have been a completely white screen of blinding light.

I closed my eyes again - for what would be the last time as the person I had known - and the gateway remained in my inner vision in greater detail than before. I now saw the turning in circles of the outer striations of light at its borders, and the way within was revealed as a kind of tunnel of light, drawing me irresistably in. This inner vision seemed to be impressed upon me through the space just above and between my physical eyes - the classical ‘third eye’, and as this portal finally seemed to have enough of waiting and rush forward to envelope me it was through this ‘third eye’ location that I felt the immaterial ‘body’ of my consciousness drawn out of and through my physical body and, with only the briefest awe-struck glance about the room and my body below - into the bright light.

As soon as I crossed the ‘threshold’ into the ‘tunnel of light’ there was a mighty thunderclap like a sonic boom, and I was whisked along at breakneck speed. It was in many ways like some depictions of ‘wormholes’ in science-fiction movies: long stretches down a tunnel of golden-and-white ‘light’ (or at least highly accelerated matter) at impossible speeds, then occasional violent turns that left the feeling of extended after-images of oneself still lingering in different places within the same moment through the vicissitudes of that sheer speed. There was a high-pitched whining hum over and above all sounds, even the colossal rushing roar of my passage down this tunnel. I was both regretful of things in my life left undone - and wholly and unrepentantly exhilarated at this bold adventure into worlds unknown - if anything, I felt that experiencing all this instead of attending to my mortal duties was rather selfish! The high-speed passage down this tunnel of light was intense and jarring in spite of my resolve to explore this to the fullest - I would, in this non-physical counterpart ‘body’, clench my ‘teeth’, shake my ‘head’, and ‘hang on’ doggedly as the speed and suddenness of the twists and turns grew more pronounced. And then, just as I wondered whether the whole process of dying just culminated in the oblivion of extinction somewhere within this bright and interminable light, - I emerged through the other side of the tunnel.

I was now floating in a vast and cavernous space, immeasurable in its scope. In front of me - above, below, left right, in every direction and for as far as the ‘eye’ could see - was a cosmically immense ‘Wall’. It was smooth, hard, and translucent like a type of stone or more aptly crystal, yet on closer examination its texture had the warp and weft of something woven. All across this vast - this apparently endless - stretch of wall danced the most beautiful and breath-taking display of shifting colours. The closest thing I might compare it to is the Aurora Borealis, but this wall, and these colours, I intuitively grasped as containing in their endless expressions all the possibilities and instances contained within the mortal world on this side of the Wall. The Wall consisted, in some linear-spacetime-defying way, of the entirety of what we are wont to call ‘the Universe’ - and I had reached the ends of that Universe and floated there in awe before the Wall in whose colours were written all of our Universe’s Possibilities.

This Wall, and those Colours and their Dance, were so beautiful and mesmerizing that I feel I could have easily spent Eternity simply gazing at it rapturously and on one level wholly fulfilled. But something - and I yet remain unable to firmly pinpoint exactly what - prompted me, ever so subtly, that this, that our Universe, was yet not All - not by a long shot. That there was more - beyond the Wall - if I Dared. I had to ask myself - if there is more, am I satisfied?

Somewhere back in that room immeasurable distances upon distances away and yet pinpointable to an exact point upon the vastness of the Wall, I felt through some strange and invisible connexion to my motionless body on the couch a sensation within my brain very much like the opening of an important but carefully safeguarded door which I had only now come of age to rightfully open. I made up my mind that I would find a Way past the Wall, and Know what lay Beyond.

Apparently, committing to that decision was all it took in that strange space, for I felt a ‘shift’ in the atmosphere that I recognized from the ‘tunnel of light’ as the preparation of some force or forces to propel me into decisive motion. The high-pitched hum began again, much like the revving up of some jet engine, and the ‘space’ that my ‘body’ occupied, and my ‘body’ with it, began shaking back and forth rapidly and violently with the pent-up energy to launch me forward - forward, I realized with some moderate horror, too late - right into the Wall!

A moment later, the violent shaking subsided and there was a moment of calm before the ‘launch’ as I floated there staring at the impregnable surface of the wall like a circus performer about to be launched from a new and wholly experimental cannon. This, much more than entering the tunnel of light, was going to be a point of no return. I remember thinking, Oh, shit - now I’m going to die. And then like a bullet from a sling I was hurled forward at the familiarly impossible speed.

In spite of all my last-minute misgivings I was now committed, and remember laughing like a maniac as I rushed through impossible gulfs into the unknown. When I struck the Wall I was about as tense as an immaterial body could be - but at the moment of impact, I don’t recall that I really felt anything at all - it was like passing through an Illusion of the greatest solidity - but an Illusion all the same. Instead, I was greeted with the most awe-inspiringly colossal barrage of ‘sound and fury’ I will likely ever experience. Some I have shared this with have called it ‘the rending of the veil’, and that’s very poetic. I would compare it to the kind of continuous explosive cacophany which might be approached by the roll of a hundred thousand nuclear explosions perfectly timed.

Whatever the least inadequate comparison to this symphony of illusion-destruction, I was carried forward on the heels of its explosive force Beyond, and Through - the limits of our Universe. I was in a different tunnel, now, and this one was already wholly ‘otherworldly’ or even ‘alien’. If the previous tunnel of light had seemed, due to the abstraction of illusion, immaterial (or even ‘transcendent’ of the material!), this one was very solid, or even hyper-real - more real that the Universe I was accustomed to, whose weaving within the Wall was at best a pale imitation of the wider existence Beyond.

This tunnel was suffused with a bluish light, but rather than blindingly overpowering like the abstract illusion, this very-real tunnel’s details were readily discernable in a light that was more dimly ambient than glaring-concealing. I still moved along at speed, but it was not a violent or jarring travel, so I made sure to look around me. The walls of this tunnel were most like flesh, and in fact I could discern what seemed to be ‘veins’ within it - the impression received was most like I was travelling some strange kind of ‘cosmic birth canal’ - I was strongly of the persuasion that if the one tunnel had re-presented dying in one world, the traversing of this tunnel re-presented being born in another.

Still, there were confusing discrepancies. For one thing, every detail that presented itself as a thing biological was met with another that presented itself as a thing mechanical! There were ‘blood vessels’, and also ‘wires’, there were ‘panels’ whose lights revealed ‘blood’ or other fluids, and there were ‘veins’ which carried pulses of light, or even what looked like stars, nebulae, galaxies!

I was trying to reconcile this strange blend of living, mechanical, and cosmic when I approached the other end of the tunnel. As this grand destination opened up before me, I was rendered awe-struck by an illimitable vastness of space in which numberless stars, nebulae, and galaxies gleamed pristine and clear of any intervening atmosphere. It was piercingly beautiful, and - though an astronomer I am not - I imagine that they were all completely unknown to our tiny corner of mundane observation.

Ahead of me in this bejewelled expanse of primordial Night, I saw some kind of ‘platforms’ or ‘pylons’ that seemed to remain stationary (although there was nothing near enough to establish ‘motion’ or ‘stability’ -relative- to anything) without any obvious support on which to rest - no more than any of the other objects found occupying their places within this primal space. The pylons supported what looked like some kind of arcane and hyper-advanced machinery, and I was exiting this second ‘tunnel’ from ‘above’ in the perspective of these platforms. My vision of the details here below, however, was obscured by the beings looking up at me expectantly with a very palpable feeling of intense interest.

I could make out their outlines, more or less humanoid although somewhat elongated, and when they spoke the words impressed themselves directly ‘within my head’ or ‘upon my mind’. These words will remain with me for a while longer, at least - but it was explained that my journey was not a ‘final’ one to this place, and that I would be returning to our world very much alive.

The return trip under these beings’ (beings, gods, that I will return to describing in an upcoming bigass thread of UPG and current practice) watchful gaze much resembled the first journey, with the exception of the Wall’s appearance - from Outside. Stripped of the beautiful dancing colours of Illusion forming the other side of this actually-insubstantial barrier, from the Outside the Wall most resembled a gigantic edifice of intricate clockwork mechanism - this mechanism, which translated on our side of the Wall into all of our ‘natural laws’, ‘causalities’, and ‘fates’, was in fact a construction, an imposition - almost like a ‘corral’ of κόσμος from χάος . Beyond, lay all the possibility and potential of a greater reality - within, a kind of deterministic sandbox founded on a certain arbitrary degree of abstraction.

Within this kosmos-encompassing clockwork machinery of determinism, I was made aware of the total inevitability of all causal reaction within this Kosmos, and the impossibility of Free Action without partaking of, and Bringing From, the Wholeness of outer Xaos.

As I returned to my body and eventually opened my eyes again, there was a certain small tree visible in the window in front of me, waving in the breeze. I recognized even the tiny and (relatively) insignificant movements of these boughs in the wind as being foreordained within the Mechanism of Universe, and for several minutes could only sit there and process the degree to which my memory of this mechanism was reflected in this unfolding process. Fortunately for my sanity - and my enjoyment of our little sandbox! - my memory of every last detail of this mechanism of causality rapidly faded within about a week.

The conclusions drawn from this experience, which I will leave to any readers to determine (hopefully in the light of future investigations of their own!) as I have for myself, have, however, remained.

Finally, this is the sort of experience that is just much, much to huge to properly re-present in a single attempt at re-telling, so if any of you do have any questions or any exposed holes in the account to poke at, please speak up and I will be glad to do my best at answering.

If you made it this far, thanks for reading! I wouldn’t be sharing this here if I didn’t think the forum were becoming a better place for such things within a very timely current of exciting events!


This is truly awe-inspiring! And beautifully written, as ever.

I think that the only on-point observation I can make at the moment is of having, also, experienced the clockwork nature of things, the first time through pathworking the Runes years ago, and the most recent being the work I did with Ahriman & Azi Dahaka.

I was still very much inside it though, unlike your experience, but I can recognise some of what I experienced in your own account here, though you had a much better vantage point. :slight_smile:

All avenues, if dug deeply enough into, seem to suggest that our reality, at least physically, is some sort of bubble dimension with boundaries, inside of, presumably and logically (to me at least), an endlessness that is incomprehensible to the mortal mind.

I have seen extra spatial dimensions in dreams, which should not be possible to conceptualize if they didnt exist. I once in a dream, through a pane of glass, watched the motion of a 4 dimensional engine the size of a small air plane hanger. In the dream it was clearly moving without intersecting itself, but as I began to wake, and the mortal mind began to take over, it began to appear as if it was folding in upon itself.

If one can see movement through a 4th spatial dimension… why not through 5? Or 6? Or a billion?

The laws of nature seem to be arbitrary.

Its one reason I very often consider this reality a game, being run on a server with some rules set up, some config files that the program draws its parameters from, and an unimaginably large player base. I dont like the term “simulation” that much, because its steeped in materialist thinking that we are in a physical universe literally on a physical computer, which I find exceeding hard to believe. Its just an analogy, but people take “simulation” quite literally.

Its funny, its a game, but there doesnt seem to be any victory conditions. Its a big sandbox that we all join into for all our own reasons, and then upon arrival, forget why we joined…

But maybe thats part of this game… to see if you can remember why you started playing! Sounds silly, but why not? Its a maze. And when we finally finish the maze, remember why we each started playing, and have our own personal journey to remember the game by… maybe we play another game, totally different from this one.

True Reality might be a gigantic arcade room…

And I say that only half jokingly.

Oh, man, you GET ‘It’, or at least if we’re both glaringly wrong we are very much on the same page - what are the odds?

In addition to this account’s relevance in explaining the beginnings of my thoughts behind what was expressed along with Lady Eva’s and Bahamuthat’s consideration of concealing ‘white’ light versus revealing ‘black’ light (in the recent 9/11 working thread), your comment just now reminds me of when I shared with a great magitian not on this forum a letter from Miguel Serrano to Carl Jung which included the following passage in particular:

His response included:

"If Time is an illusion, what does it mean to have instantaneous results?

“Frankly, trying to conceive of change outside of time has always given me a headache.”

My response that might easily be a more current attempt at briefly summarizing the experience of about two years ago described in the OP here:

"[…]my own NDE and similar experiences lead me to operate on the working model of Time being synonymous with living in this manifest kosmos which I personally view as a created enclosure from a ‘surrounding’ Unmanifest Potentiality which is indeed the essence and soul of change, among other things including, admittedly, its opposite.

“To transcend Time means to step outside this life as we know it and operate on a superior and anterior level in order to create true Change. I use the capital form form for this kind of Change to distinguish it as something truly creative and truly Changeful on a broad scale, as opposed to the petty and superficial little changes within Time and the manifest kosmos that are really only the rearranging of finite and ultimately limited puzzle pieces within our manifest kosmos’ ‘deterministic enclosure’. To the degree that we can ‘breach the wall’ between manifest kosmos and ummanifest xáos, however (and most any act ‘unnatural’ to the kosmos’ arbitrarily created rules, such as stepping outside it to the original unmanifest before, after, beyond those rules, will work towards this), and restore (again in my own opinion/personal gnôsis) the primordial balance with Xáos by bringing it ‘back’ with us and through our actions, do we truly Enliven with Potentiality’s essence the mere shape-and-form of ‘life’ and ‘change’ otherwise found within the magnificent (as the best illusions are) but comparably mundane kosmos’ massive but ultimately exhaustible possibilities.”


“If you’re saying that the change itself occurs within time, even if it’s source is outside of time, than that’s easy enough to understand.”

To which my, possibly wrong but thus far working:

"UPG obviously, but I do see linear-time as part of a multi-dimensional illusion sequestered off from greater reality by the arbitrary ‘game-rules’ we think of as our laws of physics, nature, causality, etc.

"All of these laws considered, though, all possibilities within them may be vast but are ultimately finite. So shifts on the causal level only appear to be genuine changes from a limited perspective, within the illusion. When they’re really more like rearranging a vast rubiks cube to make another superficial pattern, but not truly changing the thing’s nature or creating a new possibility.

"Doing this, what I would (perhaps pedantically, I admit, from an everyday perspective) term Change with a capital C would involve ‘breaching’ the integrity of the illusion in order to manifest genuinely Changeful Potentialities from outside the normal boundaries of those highly intricate but ultimately finite combinations routinely possible within the ‘deterministic sandbox’.

“Strictly UPG, obvs, but it’s a working model until it’s scrapped for another. Certainly nothing ‘sacred’ or unquestionable.”

Yeah, I’d say we’re near enough on the same page. Thanks for your comments!

I tried posting this several days ago, but the site went completely down. Good thing I always ctrl-A, ctrl-C every time before submitting a large post. Saved me quite a number of times and a lot of frustration.

I have some theories about what time is, but as far as I can tell, it is almost entirely artificial.

I think the easiest way I can describe to everyone, and myself for that matter, is that time is the arbitrarily forced flow of 3 dimensional space through a 4th spatial dimension. This would explain entropy, and why it exists. This would explain why motion, which is just the relative positional change between objects, independent of will can exist, such as gravitational attraction. It would explain momentum, and it would explain why there was seemingly a start point for this universe, or game.

This 4th plane allows for hidden functions, hidden forces, to interact with the 3 dimensional objects from outside those objects realm of control. Think of gravity… why does it exist? WHERE does it exist? What is it? It doesnt seem to actually BE anything… its just something we can observe the effects of, but not really point to a source for.

But what if it exists as geometry in a 4th spatial dimension that 3 dimensional space is being forced through/over?

Then… it starts to make sense.

Gravity isnt “bending space”, as science describes it. Gravity is actually the interaction with terrain that you move over, but cannot see, nor touch, nor know its there except through observing its effects.

Think of a black hole and its gravity well (an apt word to describe it). At some point, when you get close enough to it, or pass the event horizon, you can no longer get out no matter how fast you go in 3d space. But think of it in 2d space… and the object getting close to it, can only move left, right, forwards, or backwards… except the black hole is a 3 dimensional funnel. While the 2 dimensional object can escape that 3 dimensional funnel up to a certain point, only by directing force along any vector in 2d space, there is a point where that 3 dimensional funnel becomes a vertical wall in any direction the 2d object is capable of rotating. And perpendicular forces do not interact with each other, so that 2 dimensional object is now stuck, because it can only move up against a wall that it cannot see nor feel, and just as in our dimension of time, the 2d objects dimension of height is in constant motion, and it will slide forever downwards into the funnel, being unable to alter its course.

(Tangent: it is conceivable to me, that the 3d funnel and 4d hole may actually be something more like an hourglass than an actual funnel, too. If you think about it, we have a terrain that is changing its angle up to a certain point, and then presumably just stopping at 90 degrees. But why would it just stop? If the angle began at 0 degrees (a flat plane), and then started moving towards itself in the opposite direction, why would it just stop before it reached a full 180 degrees, counterbalancing itself in some sub-dimension that due to its presence, or maybe anti-presence, gives the object existential stability? Eh, just a thought.)

Our poor 2d object cannot look up, and say “Oh, I can just direct force upwards and escape this 3d funnel!”, because it cannot see up, nor down, despite its constant motion through the dimension of height. It can only see left, right, front and back.

Just as in 3d space, encountering a 4d object (a black hole) will leave you with limited options once you reach the point were moving in any of the 6 directions causes you to hit an unseen “vertical” wall that you cannot directly interact with, nor overcome, because all your force is being directed perpendicularly to the wall no matter which direction you go in.

Unfortunately for our poor 3d object, it cannot simply look backwards in time and say “Oh, I just need to go this way a little bit and Ill get out of this 4d funnel!”, just as the poor 2d object cannot look upwards to escape the 3d funnel.

WHY does gravity attract, though, even if its just simply terrain over a 4th spatial dimension? It doesnt “attract”, per se. Thats our perspective of it, but its not actually attracting. What is happening is that 3d objects are being forced over 4d terrain at a constant velocity. The “attraction” is the observance of the interaction with the natural curvature of that 4d space from a 3d perspective. If we had 4 dimensional vision, there would be sense of a constant, unending motion. If we could see the geometry; the terrain of “time”, everything would be known to us. There would be nothing hidden from our sight, and this game (assuming no even higher spatial dimensions, but really there only needs to be 1 hidden dimension (time) to explain practically everything) would then no longer be a game, especially if there was no forced motion and you could move in 8 directions, instead of just 6. It would just be… a design project… a sandbox game in “creative mode”.

And gods, are those games boring after the first 5 minutes. There would be no point in “playing” the game… there would be nothing to discover, because all would be revealed. No challenge. No adventure. No exploration. No wonder.

The games purpose… THIS games purpose, would be thoroughly defeated… or maybe, just maybe, that is the final victory condition of this game… to have absolute mastery over it, and when that happens… congrats! You win! You get to be on the winner list and sign your name with 3 characters! :slight_smile:

This is, of course… just one perspective :slight_smile:

I think that’s not an NDE, more probable a kundalini awakening or just a psychic/spiritual occurrence came on for whatever reason (a god or a demon provoked it in you or just some physical or paychological adjustment in your brain)

^ That post is some serious & top-quality mind-food, thanks.

JMO here, but it sounds a lot like the “The Vision of the Machinery of the Universe”. Just a thought. Very well written, and thanks for sharing it with us.

Thanks, I’ll have to check that out!

Edit - hmmm, all I’m seeming to dredge up seems like really armchairy/bastardized Crowleyan/GD/etc. stuff. Thanks, internet. Might you be so kind as to indicate what you meant?

Certainly. You were on the right track, though, with your Google-fu. The various Visions come from the Kabbalah. I can’t remember if all of the Sephirot have a Vision attached to them, but at least most of them do. The Vision of the Machinery of the Universe is attached to Yesod. Basically, they’re experiences that can be had through meditation on a particular Sephira, or even sometimes, they can spontaneously occur. I believe I experienced it some twenty odd years ago, spontaneously, as well. For me, it was a perfect and complete understanding of how everything in the Multiverse meshes together. Everything has it’s place, it’s purpose. I could see every atom in every thing, understood where they flowed from and to. I understood the “rightness” and necessity of dark and light, chaos and order, destruction and creation. It was profound, but even if I spent a week typing non-stop, I couldn’t explain it fully to you, or how that deep comprehension felt. But I don’t need to, because you’ve been there, done that, and know that some things just can’t be put into our very limited words.

I believe I could have gotten even more out of it, but alas, I made the mistake of “paying attention to it”, and poof, it was gone. What you described sounds the same as what I experienced, only with symbolism that was relevant to you. I still consider it one of the most profound “mystical” experiences I’ve ever had, and it purged a shit load of Abrahamic ideology from my system. Sooo, just something to think about, not saying I’m right.

Can I just be an annoying pedant for a moment, and mention that actually, “The Kabbalah” probably comes from these visions?

Sorry, had to be said. >.<

In the thread Common Experiences Among Magicians I mentioned that I have seen (as have others) symbolsim claimed by Freemasonrty, despite being possibly the least Freemasonic kind of person ever.

I therefore make the point that, just because a field of study or an initiatory system claims symbolism, that does NOT make that symbolism belong to that system, nor does it even necessarily mean that they’ve mastered it or fully understand it - they just saw it, thoughty “hubba hubba looks KEWL!” and worked it in, thus also claiming masterful insider knowledge amongst ordinary people for whom it resonated.

This may seem minor, but I suggest that if any group (such as the loose group “people who studied and talked about Kabbalah in the past”) are then understood, however subconsciously, as teachers - then their MAP will begin to define the territory.

Think of it this way - if people are operating from a map, navigating and defining their positions by it, the people who drew up (or edited, censored, and controlled) that map have IMMENSE power.

And it’s actually happened in real life, with real maps: Phantom island.

I’m currently at a stage where Kabbalah is just the name one group (or a few loose groups) gave to some things they observed, and their accounts are no more trustworthy or definitive, than when I see an advert saying Coca Cola is the best way to quench thirst.

The recent 9MOTHER9HORSE9EYES9 Reddit phenom (info here), which I followed along with interest as it happened and really enjoyed, also describes flesh tunnels - I ascribe this to many minds finding a similar real/objective thing, much like the way Harner derived “core shamanism” from the way global shamanic cultures used a tree, mountain, or other rising feature as both an axis mundi and also tool to navigate into subjectively Lower & Upper Worlds.

So, I don’t think that as magicians, we’re obliged to take whoever first described something as an authority (not saying that’s what you mean either Chef, just marking out my own views!) - if some matches, cool!

But watch what drew (or coipied and edited) the map and why, and what their overall aims were. They may be good, or bad, but they existed, because no human alive was ever without some kind of agenda.

Personal exploration risks re-inventing the wheel, but if it’s done with thorough awareness of former ideas, and if that wheel is largely useless (or prohibited) because the knowledge that’s commonly shared seems somehow incomplete, then it’s a risk worth taking IMO. :slight_smile:

I guess I could have phrased it along the lines of, “my knowledge of the Visions comes from my studying the Kabbalah.” I’m so eclectic, I don’t really pay attention to “systems” and such. I see the similarities in all of them. It doesn’t matter who discovered it first, who used it later, etc. It only matters that it’s available to us. I get where you’re coming from, and I generally speak of magick in very generic terms, because it seems to me that it’s all the same. Some years ago, I would have drawn divisions, but I tend not to, anymore.

So with all of that said, I still do tend to use “common use” names of sources, like Kabbalah, in large part because a fair number of people here will be unfamiliar with a particular subject. It gives them a point of reference, and the name of a system to research if they want more info. I’m sure the Visions exist in other systems, in their own way, I’ve just never run into it.

And Coke is the best way to quench thirst. All others are pretenders or wannabes.

I hear you, I mean you’re someone on here I really respect so I knew my pedantry wouldn’t so much be “at you” as just a general observation. :slight_smile:

The core shamanism thing, I typed up a whole tutorial for that I’ve sent to lots of people, I really believe in it as a system BUT it’s not the complete picture, it’s just a good starting framework.

And I am just annoyingly pedantic, I own up to this - I also line up labels on tins, and get really weird about biros and socks (all have to be the same brand, so nothing mismatches, and black ink, black socks, black everything), but to be fair, I have to live with myself 24/7, and you don’t, so count yerself lucky! :stuck_out_tongue:

Thank you, I really appreciate that. It goes both ways :slight_smile:

Food for thought: the NDE of Carl Jung as excerpted from his wonderful Memories, Dreams, Reflections. This is legit - he was there.

You are an amazing and beautiful writer…

You should pursue writing.


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Thank You so much!

Can you make a summary of this topic, like what happens and what’s the conclusion. My IQ and English capabilities aren’t enough to comprehend them.