I’ve been interested in magick and everything spiritual for years now. I’ve had some succcess here and there. I’m always striving to learn more and make progress but then it hit me - what am I going to DO with magick and what do I want to ACHIEVE?!? There might be a 100 reasons why I haven’t progressed with this or that but it’s dawned on me maybe a big part is that I’m simply not defining my actual goals and then I realized I’m afraid to…
For example, I want to lose weight. So, first I think I’ll use magick/spirituality to help lose weight. But my fear comes from what if I lose weight by getting cancer or similar - the universe/God/demons/whatever can say “well, you wanted to lose weight so there, now you’ve lost weight!” Or I want to do everything I can to help my 4 year old to stop stuttering. So if I use magick to somehow help with that, what if he becomes a mute - “well, see, he doesn’t stutter anymore!” the universe/whatever can retort.
My question is - how do I get past this fear or deal with it? What’s the reality of things when it comes to declaring what you want? Can things go bad like that? If so, can I avoid it or protect against it, etc. etc.
I guess this is a broader issue I have in general in that I’ve always had a fear of going after and getting things I want because I fear having those successes will somehow lead to bad things so I just go with the flow in life and play it safe. Being raised a Jehovah’s Witness I’m sure didn’t help - to where in the back of my mind I can still here my mother and the church say that pretty much anything is “dabbling with demons” and bad things will happen.
You being raised a jehovah’s witness got my attention, because I was raised the same way. So the first “work” I had to do was to get rid of all those indoctrinations. It took me a lot of time and a lot of work but in the end I managed to get released from all those nonsens.
In your case I would work on the issue “fear”! Fear is a good thing when it comes to warning you of actual realistic dangers. But irrational fear is the fear that was implanted in your mind by that religion, as well as your parents, school, and your entire environment… So if I were you, I’d work on that first.
As an ex-jehovah’s Witness, and later on, an ex-pentecostal idiot, I can testify to you that the truth of the matter is that power is there for us to grab, it’s up to us to become the god we want to be. But in order to do that, we must accept that being a god is our birthright. Every religion, whether it’s a christian, a jewish, an islamitic, and so on, has but one goal: to suppress people. Because after all, people with knowledge are people with power! And that’s what people actually fear: people with power!! Same for you: I think you fear your own power! I’ve been there, done that! But I won! And I no longer fear backfiring. And how did I do that? First of all by really specifying every little detail of what I want. As long as you are still struggling with those old indoctrinations, you should express every detail in your workings.
For instance: if you want to lose weight, you simply state that you want to lose weight in the most healthy way as possible!
You want your son to stop stuttering? Just ask to make him stop stuttering AND to give him succes in every which way he wants to communicate, in the most healing way!
So far for my 2 cents.
P.S. If you want to know how I conquered those indoctrinations and fears,… check out my story under the topic “where did your name come from”. I did it by entering a “Shamanic death”
When I do an evocation and ask for something I do something really simple to avoid backlash. I just request that the task be fullfilled in a way that I would approve of.
For me a lot goes into how I present myself and what emotions I’m putting into it. For instance involving a job “I just want to get out this fucking location and where I want to be!” can land one in the hospital… in the location I wanted to be. Patience is a virtue for sure, as well as a good bit of thorough thinking.
In the end I feel you reap what you sow ;]
SOLARUS first of all, Welcome! You are among safe friends here; we all love to put in our $2. worth (yes, Bran, I charge more than you do!). But we always express what we consider the best we have, without wanting anything in return - except what you freely give.
I’m alot in line with Bran’s advise. I would add BE PATIENT with yourself while you’re “de-programming” so to speak. And realize that most of the people in all these various religions are like your Mom - she genuinely believes in it herself, so she THINKS she gave you the best. Hold your peace, maintain your secretiveness. There will come a time when you can & should speak as freely as you please. But while you are just now starting to come out of the fog - until you get some strength, confidence and a few ‘successes’ SILENCE on this matter is your friend. Naysayers will undermine your progress wittingly or unwittingly.
And being as clear as a bell about what you DO want will calm alot of your fears. Say: “I want my beautiful son, whom I love so dearly, to be able to speak smoothly and clearly and without embarassment, because he deserves the very best!” You see how the right wording makes you look at it and think, “Wow, that doesn’t leave ANY room for error!”
And if it helps you, I will go ahead and state what you already know in your most secret heart … You are Worthy and You are Accepted and You have an Inherent Right to have absolute Power & Authority over every area of your life AND all that concerns you in any way. (Wow, that doesn’t leave ANY room for error!) Z
Solarus, what a fantastic discussion! I admit, this fear has kept me from taking the plunge into evocation as well. I too have young children, and I worry about inviting harm into their lives as well. Everyone here is so helpful. I know that much of these fears are in fact just one way religion has found to control us and keep us from experiencing our true power and potential.
On a side note, the whole situation reminds me of one of Dave Matthews songs. The lyrics are:
"If you close your eyes,
Cause the house is on fire.
You’d think you couldn’t move,
Until the fire dies.
You’d be as good as dead,
Cause you might die trying.
EA has said time and time again, he doesn’t care how or what we use our power for, just so long as we DO use it.
@Zoe, Bran, and Defectron - excellent advise as always!
[quote=“beboe76, post:6, topic:175”]Solarus, what a fantastic discussion! I admit, this fear has kept me from taking the plunge into evocation as well. I too have young children, and I worry about inviting harm into their lives as well. Everyone here is so helpful. I know that much of these fears are in fact just one way religion has found to control us and keep us from experiencing our true power and potential.
On a side note, the whole situation reminds me of one of Dave Matthews songs. The lyrics are:
"If you close your eyes,
Cause the house is on fire.
You’d think you couldn’t move,
Until the fire dies.
You’d be as good as dead,
Cause you might die trying.
EA has said time and time again, he doesn’t care how or what we use our power for, just so long as we DO use it.
@Zoe, Bran, and Defectron - excellent advise as always! :D[/quote]
I think that with Evocation its irresponsible not to close doorways that are oppened… so I second your sentiments.
As far as fear goes - well - that part of deprogramming…
Why is silence so important? Is it as simple as the “naysayers” will undermine your progress like in most other endeavors or are there more esoteric reasons why silence is best?
[quote=“Bran, post:2, topic:175”]For instance: if you want to lose weight, you simply state that you want to lose weight in the most healthy way as possible!
You want your son to stop stuttering? Just ask to make him stop stuttering AND to give him succes in every which way he wants to communicate, in the most healing way!
P.S. If you want to know how I conquered those indoctrinations and fears,… check out my story under the topic “where did your name come from”. I did it by entering a “Shamanic death”[/quote]
Thank you. Very helpful on how to phrase things and to what level of detail. I’ll look up Shamanic death - very intrigued.
[quote=“Evangelos, post:8, topic:175”]Manifestation and defining things is an art like magick is… And I. Have been burnt many many many times… Each time a refinement occurs…
Dare, will and be silent…[/quote]
Are you comfortable sharing some examples of how you’ve been burnt? If not in the forum, PM if you prefer. Just curious. And, again, why the focus on silence? Someone said the same thing in the thread.
Are you comfortable sharing some examples of how you’ve been burnt? If not in the forum, PM if you prefer. Just curious. And, again, why the focus on silence? Someone said the same thing in the thread.
[/quote]
Well, Solarus, I’m gonna turn the question around: Why would you WANT to talk about it, share it, discuss it? When you start evaluating why you would even want to, you begin to uncover the problem… If you “cast a spell” and then bring the process & possible outcomes into discussion, you are going to invariably find yourself in a state of second-guessing, doubt in the process and uncertainty about you method. ALL of which are counter-productive to getting solid results.
If you plant a flower seed in the soil & water it every day, do you also dig it up to see if its growing? No? Why? because it would kill it… Z
[quote=“Zoe, post:13, topic:175”]Well, Solarus, I’m gonna turn the question around: Why would you WANT to talk about it, share it, discuss it? When you start evaluating why you would even want to, you begin to uncover the problem… If you “cast a spell” and then bring the process & possible outcomes into discussion, you are going to invariably find yourself in a state of second-guessing, doubt in the process and uncertainty about you method. ALL of which are counter-productive to getting solid results.
If you plant a flower seed in the soil & water it every day, do you also dig it up to see if its growing? No? Why? because it would kill it… Z[/quote]
That’s just my style - I always want as much data, probabilty of risk, etc. so that I can then make the most informed choices possible. That methodology has worked well with my career (technology/project management) but it can definitely lead to analysis paralysis if I don’t watch it
So it’d help reduce my fear if I hear how at least one person got burned once by not being specific enough in ritual - it’d be at least a concrete example instead of just going based on what crazy scenarios my mind is conjuring up.
To be clear, I don’t fixate on the bad stuff that CAN happen in anything I do, but I do want to at least know the potential dangers and level of risk that I could experience and then gauge my actions appropriately from there.
… BUT maybe you’re right when it comes to magick, maybe I should refrain from my usual thinking process and avoid thinking of any risk involved and just dive in. I haven’t had great magickal success so I don’t want to take anything for granted and want to try different things and that can even mean a different thought process all together. And your outlook on it would definitely be different for me - to do something without knowing all the risks?!? - preposterous!! And maybe just what I should do!!
You remind me alot of ME … I wanted Magick to be a mathematical science where " if I do this, that’ll happen" is the rule. And in a way it is - but you gotta find a way to give up comparing it to the way of getting things done physically, which includes giving up supervising, micro-managing & troubleshooting. These Beings you are working with are so Precise, so Intelligent and for the most part Friendly … just be clear!
I think you’ll benefit a great deal by doing a few test runs with a result you don’t REALLY want badly or need. Something that’d be nice, but not a big deal. Pick two or three different subjects & experiment. But make it odd enough to diminish the idea of ‘coincidence’.
“I want twelve dollars to come to me from an unlikely source.”
“I want that guy at work who never speaks to walk up and start a pleasant conversation with me.”
“I want to receive a white daisy from a child”
Make sense? If you can successfully draw one of these - or all three into your experience, what would that do to your confidence in the Process of how Magick works? You don’t hafta jump off the deep end and manifest the extraordinary next week flawlessly! Don’t ask for things that frighten you with what ifs until those what ifs start to calm down. Thats all. Z
You remind me alot of ME … I wanted Magick to be a mathematical science where " if I do this, that’ll happen" is the rule. And in a way it is - but you gotta find a way to give up comparing it to the way of getting things done physically, which includes giving up supervising, micro-managing & troubleshooting. These Beings you are working with are so Precise, so Intelligent and for the most part Friendly … just be clear!
I think you’ll benefit a great deal by doing a few test runs with a result you don’t REALLY want badly or need. Something that’d be nice, but not a big deal. Pick two or three different subjects & experiment. But make it odd enough to diminish the idea of ‘coincidence’.
“I want twelve dollars to come to me from an unlikely source.”
“I want that guy at work who never speaks to walk up and start a pleasant conversation with me.”
“I want to receive a white daisy from a child”
Make sense? If you can successfully draw one of these - or all three into your experience, what would that do to your confidence in the Process of how Magick works? You don’t hafta jump off the deep end and manifest the extraordinary next week flawlessly! Don’t ask for things that frighten you with what ifs until those what ifs start to calm down. Thats all. Z[/quote]
Thanks Zoe - you’re a huge help. Yep I’ll do as you suggest; it’s time I stop (over)thinking about it and just do some test runs. Thanks for the nudge/push
Hi Solarus. I too am a scarred product of a childhood in Jehovas Witness. That religion is sick…
I too have had similar problems with fear. I am terribly indecisive concerning which way to go and am afraid of limiting myself. Which system to chose and afraid that I may be led to some place that I don’t want to be. I’m not the kind of person who goes from 1 extreme to another. I’ve been in an extreme and it isn’t for me. So going all darkside as the LHP almost always ask you to do doesn’t feel right for me, neither does the other extreme of going all lightside. I feel more comfortable with being at it the way that seems to be my own way, which unfortunately is being too rebel to follow any extreme (I say unfortunately because I know of some magicians who are way more successful than me because of their tendency to jump from one extreme to another). Getting tangled up in spiritual politics between two opposing factions of spiritual forces isn’t something I want. So I have had major problems actually getting started on a single grimoire and use it properly. Which is why my magical experiences has been mostly spellwork (which can be fun enough as it is :D).
To get to a way of escaping the bad mojo put into you by your past, sometimes we must simply jump into it regardless of fears since they for years can disrupt your advancement, and life is much of the time a battle. If you want to win you have to shevle your fears and (often the case for me) laziness and fight back all you can and beyond that. I don’t believe in it being possible to be properly prepaired for “the other side”. I doubt it’s any use to wait with it all til you feel completely comfortable with it. I know of plenty that started on evocation and got a major success who was very afraid at the time while performing the ritual. Fear seems to be of help sometimes when concerning magical practis. So I do not think fear should stop you. An advice an occultist on youtube once gave that I wish I heeded better is “Start small, start big, but JUST START!”.
That is not to say that you absolutely “have” to go out and summon a demon right away necessarily, but do something. Sitting behind and checking all the theori out there can last a lifetime in itself and it’s easy to fall into the mistake of not getting started at all. The first step to realizing ones power and potential is to go out and use it first, which is what Koeting often states in different ways. I wish I was better at following that advice lol.
There’s some sound advice in this tread on how to handle your fear of a spirit fixing your problems in catastrophic ways.
Anyways, welcome, and I salute you for escaping JW! Cheers!
Z