A black hole is just as natural as the sun or as our planet. The law of physics are our effort to understand what’s going on. We don’t entirely understand dark matter either, but that does not mean it is unnatural.
So what is natural, after all? If we are a part of nature, why aren’t our products natural? Is a foxhole unnatural? If it is, what is even natural, since everything is formed by some force.
Energy can never get lost, however. It is not necessarily death, only change. So you could say change is the most natural force. Wouldn’t stagnation or permanence be the most unnatural thing then?
However, natural and unnatural are manmade concepts. Considering something “unnatural” is merely an idea, and it is often used as a synonym for what we consider “abnormal” or what we don’t understand.
i appreciate it,but parsing semantics isnt my main goal here.
all i have to do to demonstrate this point is ask “existence had to begin,so what happened before that?”
as i said before,reversal of causality is the thing im defining as unnatural here
after all,what would you say if for instance you were watching a hamburger begginning to be cooked,and upon the application of heat,instead of starting to sizzle and firm up,without warning or reason the hamburger twisted and contorted back into a solid peace of meat,getting bloody and then dissolving into a soupy sludge of cells then into base elements and so forth?
or if a person had a fully loaded,perfectly functioning gun,and without warning or reason,when they pulled the trigger,the bullet was put back into the magazine and then the magazine fell out of the gun?
you would be very confused thats what
this is not impossible per the laws of physics,the only thing that makes it improbable is the flow of time,and once you take that away or reverse it?then you have a legitimized paradox
this is why im saying reversal of causality is the unnatural thing. inside of a black hole time becomes traversable in two directions depending on how your looking at it. so you could very well go in and come back out before you ever got there,all in order to tell yourself not to go,creating a functional problem whereby at the maximal possible speed more and more of you show up,causing a critical mass that consumes the universe in a singularity before the first tick of a clock has even passed by
Hmm, the birth of the universe followed the death of the previous one, I’d say. But this is a still unanswered question.
Searching for a personification or state of “non-existence” is an interesting paradox, because if it exists, it is not non-existent anymore.
Time reversal symmetry.
But I don’t understand your connection to it being unnatural.
simple. to reverse things is unnatural because it normally never happens,conservation of energy,entropy,whatever you call it. though it does and can happen
you ironically somewhat proved my point by admitting the birth of this universe followed the death of the previous,that death is so natural that even the universe dies.
yet you left out the part where in order to birth from death the universe has to compactify itself in a “big crunch” as its often called in science,and that entails a reversal of entropy.
firstly,i dont appreciate being quoted out of larger context (though who am i to complain,i cant stop you)
secondly. time reversal symmetry is a mouthful in english,it would probably sound even worse in latin,and id wager given humanity’s length of time on this earth and the amount of human lives come and gone in that time,that our modern conception of it cant possibly be the first time that has been thought of
and thirdly. im talking about paradoxes,though time reversal be a useful tool to illustrate this,how many times do i have to say the word paradox before people get it?paradox is a more formal way of saying something is unnatural
very interestingly,learning and understanding how this deity functions and exists can lead to madness.but much like things being burnt being a secondary effect of fire and not the fire itself, the madness/insanity is not this diety of the unnatural,its just a secondary. after all we dont refer to a dementia causing disease by the word dementia now do we?we dont name hurricanes “hurricane windy” now do we?people’s minds are so addicted to the idea of nature,or mother nature depending on your preference, encompassing everything that there either left jabbering incoherently or they gloss over it when nature simply does not and cannot take hold
I’m not opposing your idea, I said it before, it’s an interesting paradox. I was just trying to give some food for thought, and discussing about the choice of words. That’s all.
well,amongst all of this paradox talk we’ve encountered one truth,english isnt an exact. and word choices are usually a concensus reality.
as for food?our mutual discussion has likely indeed fed more than one brain today,and gotten the topic incrementally closer towards a conclusion.i personally think that is the “bedrock” as it were of any decent research outfit,and likely the only reason that most people have ever had a conversation to begin with.
“when melting ice leaves things dry,
when scratching a nose pokes an eye,
when just to be born things must die,
you’ve arrived”
and another one
“surely you have to be lost to find a place that cant be found,elseways,everyone would know where it was”
are you sure?after all,the only thing i said on that second quote snippet is that in essence,i know nothing. and if you hold to p=np,or atleast the basic idea put forth by it,by knowing nothing,i know everything,and so on
ergo,by channeling this deity of the paradox,you can receive immense wisdom
So… What is the truth then?
Are you referring to “mother nature” vs manmade things being binary opposites? But most manmade things are born of resources taken from mother nature. we didn’t just snap our collective fingers one day and suddenly conjure plastic and styrofoam and ballpoint pens and automobiles out of thin air.
Hence my stance that anything that exists cannot be unnatural. It can be paranormal or it can be beyond our understanding or our limited filters imposed by a perceptual 3D existence.
Yes, like I said. Opposites can be binary but often they can be represented by a scale.
Again, being constrained to a perceptual 3D existence, I can’t ever say definitively that my actions in the future have affected my past. But I have had a handful of not-insignificant experiences where hindsight shows me my past experiences were determined by my future actions. Enough to convince me that retrocausality is indeed a thing.
I read some study recently about retrocausality having been demonstrated on a quantum scale. If you want paradoxes, there are plenty of them happening at the micro level. Like quantum entanglement, or the nature of wave-particles to exist in a superimposed state until observed. So “paradoxes” in that sense are possible. Does that make them unnatural? No, because they happen… under natural law.
Perhaps we’re just not understanding each other correctly, or we have fundamentally different viewpoints – all of which are totally fine I am going to respectfully bow out of this discussion, I wish you the best and would be interested in reading any journal you might make which documents your findings and experiences
we didn’t just snap our collective fingers one day and suddenly conjure plastic and styrofoam and ballpoint pens and automobiles out of thin air.
I am going to respectfully bow out of this discussion, I wish you the best and would be interested in reading any journal you might make which documents your findings and experiences