Why are we talking to becoming a living God and nobody can manifest million $?

Money = Value.

What is value?


§ 1-204. Value.

Except as otherwise provided in Articles 3, 4, [and] 5, [and 6], a person gives value for rights if the person acquires them: (1) in return for a binding commitment to extend credit or for the extension of immediately available credit, whether or not drawn upon and whether or not a charge-back is provided for in the event of difficulties in collection; (2) as security for, or in total or partial satisfaction of, a preexisting claim; (3) by accepting delivery under a preexisting contract for purchase; or (4) in return for any consideration sufficient to support a simple contract.

What does that mean?

It means that money can be anything: Any claim, detriment, time, or consideration that has meaning to one party; holds value in the commercial world.

It’s your choice whether or not you want to kill yourself over Federal Reserve Notes that are ultimately evidence of debt in the public corporate system, or (Option B) become a true magi who’s ultimate weapon is his mind, and learn to exist in a world where you don’t need ‘money’ as it is known to the plebeian public.

I’m going with plan (B).

Everything in this world takes hard work, magic included. I’ve given up trying to convince people otherwise. Sadly, magic wasn’t meant for them in the first place.

It’s like trying to convince a 300lb, overweight, 2 pack a day smoker that they might need to change their overall perspective of personal health before they get the body of their dreams.

Magic isn’t just about changing your surroundings, it’s about a change in consciousness.

How can you expect to change your surroundings if you were to lazy to work on yourself?


Yeah its about changing both, but still it would be nice to manifest great amount of money - and at least i believe that i could keep that pile of money alive :smiley: - Is it laziness, who knows - might be, but who cares?

I can see your points, but i also understand that its easy to wonder about something like Koby does, if there was a supreme magician why couldn’t he/she manifest gold for example. Its an understandable question.

And i would try more money magic, and possibly at some point will - even if its not my main goal with magic to “just get money and then forget about magic” but money always makes things more available, even when it comes to magical workings with more money you probably have more experiences available. So its easy to understand why money would be the prime desire for a man.

As money is the physical magic, or just like you say the symbol of power in this world. Physical yet mental. But something so confusing.


I think the original post by koby is flawed because it makes the assumption that every magician wants to have millions of dollars, and that just isn’t so. The majority of people are simply content to have enough money to support themselves and their loved ones, with some left over for fun. Having millions comes with responsibilities and headaches most have no interest in dealing with. I am very sure that some of the millionaires and billionaires in the world today are magicians, and use magick to make their fortune. But why would you assume they’d tell you about it? If I won the lottery through magick, the last thing I would do is announce it to the world.



And if you could manifest gold, are you seriously telling me the first thing you’d do is run onto an internet forum and tell everyone? Or Facebook?!

Same as if you had a foolproof way of predicting games of chance - would you be so eager to have the seriously deadly types who run a lot of that world breathing down your neck to get a few “likes” (and a shitload of PMs asking how you did it, etc)?

Rich as Croesus you may be, when you can turn your used socks into 99% pure gold or read the lottery numbers in your Tarot decks, but all the money in the world won’t protect you from the kind of people who’d be on your case if you were about to cripple the entire global economy, or completely destroy the gambling industry by proving that the hardest game of chance in the world can be easily cheated.

And can you imagine the pitiful begging messages, accompanied by the photos of children dying for want of a dialysis machine, widowed mums who desperately need an operation to live and keep their families from starving - or, worse, the millions who’d hear about you, besieging your home and that of your family, friends, bugging the people who went to school with you - forming cults around you, or proclaiming you the anti-Christ? Try wearing a frilly pink dress in public if you’re a guy, and you’ll see how loony-tunes the human race can be when it sees something slightly unusual… then multiply that by MILLIONS.

You would become the focus for the entire world’s views on money, inequality, resentment, hope and fear - all in one place. Get real! :wink:

Go do something you believe in, and not something that would turn out like one of those “The Monkey’s Paw” morality stories, where the over-eager use of magick turns into the force that destroys instead of saving the user.


I admit that you have good points too DK and Eva.


I’m still trying to figure out what the hell I did. Back in January, I called out to any and all entities that were listening. And more or less offered up my soul in exchange for $20,000. But I heard the whole “selling your soul” thing is a crock. That demons will rarely ever make a pact for a soul. So I got specific and said that if I didn’t have anything they needed at the time, to let me know when there was a time that I could fulfill my end of the pact.

A few days ago I get a call from my mother. She’s dying, and fast. And how she came into contact with the thing that’s killing her still can’t be explained by doctors. It’s as if it literally came out of nowhere.

Here’s the kicker…

If and when she dies, I get $20,000.

Kind of makes me wonder…

A) Is it circumstance? Or did I more or less kill my mother?

And B) Is there even a remote possibility that I could legit end up losing my soul?

Spooky shit.


Dredd, if it is so that you can lose your soul - i might have lost mine too : d
not sure. But i don’t know what would it actually mean + i have got the understanding that it doesn’t work like that, and no great entity would really need our souls.

About you killing your mother, i don’t know - maybe it is possible.


While koby is perhaps assuming that all magicians that all magicians want millions of dollars, I do not feel that the question is entirely too invalid, or at least that the inquiry is completely outrageous. Granted, some magicians are completely content with making enough money to support themselves. However, I can say that, if we were honestly speaking, 90% of us would like for money to come to us with FAR less physical effort spent on it, and almost certainly in higher quantity. Yet, when a new program of EA’s comes out, how many of us had to “sacrifice” or “work hard” to obtain and extra $300? I mean, what is the all this talk of such things as “ultimate power”, being a “Living God”, and commanding “legions” when we still have to toil for basic needs?

I know personally of about 5 magicians for whom money is something they almost can never run out of. However, those same people have spent time honestly prioritizing things that a great deal of popular magic does not, much of which can be considered “traditional” work. Mainly, they were able to spend intensive periods of their beginning studies practicing in manners that broke a lot of their dependence on the ideals set forth in the common paradigm. In turn, these folks rather live lives where money is not necessary and/or acquiring money is completely effortless.

For most people, that is not something they have been able to do; too much ideology in regards to not only money, but love, social life, health… these aren’t things that many of us spend time actually working through. Our societies run on these ideals, and for many of us the trashing of these ideals would make us entirely too uncomfortable. There is nobility in things like toil and struggle in this society, which would be contrary to the idea of making money effortlessly, or healing terminal diseases with the touch of a hand, or acquiring long-lasting, loving relationships that aren’t rife with common squabbles.

I personally find no nobility or necessity to refrain from pushing magick to it’s limits, but this also means that I gotta prepare myself to do that. Like Gnosis is saying, you have to work on yourself first and foremost, so you have to know where that stuff comes from. However, many of the noble ideals we have towards things are just as detrimental for our evolution as the so-called slothy ideals. Believing in ideals where people spend 1/3 + of their waking day toiling for money is just about as damaging as being lazy and relying on money to solve your problems.

Most important though, do not expect someone public to be your guide towards magick like this. EA rather can’t do it, or won’t tell anyone about how to do it, and considering recent events, the former is just as likely as, if not perhaps more likely than, the latter. Just learn what you can from him, and take it from there for yourself. However, I think it has bee pointed out that if you don’t have any plans for it, money probably won’t serve you very well.


[quote=“Black Flame, post:12, topic:4186”]Dredd, if it is so that you can lose your soul - i might have lost mine too : d
not sure. But i don’t know what would it actually mean + i have got the understanding that it doesn’t work like that, and no great entity would really need our souls.

About you killing your mother, i don’t know - maybe it is possible.[/quote]

At the time, losing my soul didn’t seem like such a big deal. I didn’t think I had much of a soul left. But I’ve made some major self discoveries over the last while. And it turns out not only is my soul intact, but it’s strong. Don’t ask…

I say strong because of some of the things that have been happening to me. Like these dreams I’ve been having that still haven’t stopped. I have dreams about the most random stuff, and in the dream I’m always learning. It’s always different. It ranges from a typical high school class room to a Buddhist temple in the Tibetan mountains. But…

I just figured it out.

It’s the teacher. The common denominator is the teacher. He’s always the same, but he’s never playing the same role.

Now how do I figure out who HE is…

Anyway, back on topic. Yeah, these dreams are teaching me. I remember everything the next day. That’s unusual for me. Or rather it was. Because it happens every time I dream now.

And it’s all information that’s new to me. So it has to be coming from somewhere. I’m giving my soul credit. My soul wants me to know these things. I just have to figure out why.

Or I’m completely wrong and some entity is hijacking my body and mind while I’m asleep to use it to learn these things. But what entity with the power to hijack a body wouldn’t already know all of it…

I’m done rambling now lol.


There’s another angle to this - if one of you ONCE saw someone do it in a way that you knew meant there were no tricks involved, no illusions, you’d believe it was possible and a mile-high barrier that holds you back would be broken forever.

IMO the original purpose of initiation was for the student to WITNESS the teacher performing a miracle, because the act of seeing it happen would dispel any and all subconscious limitations and blocks, and lead the student to inherit the power by inheriting the absolute certainty that the miracle was attainable.

No-one’s going to upload that shit onto YouTube for you though, because 1. all the stuff I typed above and 2. no-one would believe it.

But I can tell you this, to believe or disbelieve as you will - I have on occasion performed things that were miraculous, as in, they lacked any possible external explanation, after periods when I had experiences of samadhi leading up to brief moments of merger with Source, stuff I already talked about on here in the past.

And I think a few of you on here have had the same experience of creating the inexplicable through different methods, so as for “is it possible?” - probably, though the blocks and crap you carry inside will be the main thing to watch out for, and second to that will be explaining to the Inland Revenue where you’re getting all these solid gold socks you keep selling off. :slight_smile:


You just gotta be somewhat intelligent with the way you do things as well as knowing how to remain incognito. For example, turning socks into solid gold and selling them might not be the most intelligent way of doing things for some obvious reasons, or even perhaps manifesting $1 million out of thin air and putting it into a bank all at once. However, if a person hit up a few casinos in a month and won about $10000 from each of them, you probably are pretty safe.

I had a friend who was selling weed, and I was talking to him about how he can use it as a catapult to make “legit” money. Automatically, he was against because he was afraid that someone would come asking him where he got his start-up capital. Granted, Internal Revenue would ask you about this if you were to throw in, idk, maybe $40000 into a business at once. However, there are several internet marketing ventures where once could easily gross $20000 off a $2000 investment in a matter of a week with pretty much no work other than placing some decent ads in the right place… While $40000 might be hard to explain, there are many ways that you could explain $2000 that would not at all be suspect.

It’s not that difficult to manage it, the important thing is knowing how to manage yourself. I think that many people do not manifest these amounts because they would kill their progress. If they manifest money, a lot of their motivation for magick could verily go out the window, and as such I would recommend that one not get into magick solely for money or success within the current paradigm. You could do that far quicker and with less hassle just committing yourself to starting a business.


You’ve raised a very good point there: one of the questions that comes up in a lot of personal development & career development books is, “What would you still want to do if you won a massive lottery jackpot and never had to work or worry about money again?”

Leaving aside for a mo that fact that even very rich people usually have to at least give some thought to their investments etc., it’s a question worth asking to break free for a moment from the constraints on your life.

If, for example, the answer is “Still do magick, but go to South America and train with the shamans there” or something, and right now you figure you’re stuck hoping for a sale on black and orange candles after Halloween, then that tells you something you could take action on right now.

But if the answer’s “Laze around getting fat and paying to get things done, and bollocks to this spooky stuff coz they’re probably all just making up anyway” then… that also tells you something about commitment, at the very least. :wink:


If i had my humanly needs like money satisfied, i don’t know what else to do with magical means than soul travel and self discovery but at least there are those :smiley: also you could read on your investments. And yeah, there is always some use - but i understand the point and have been thinking about it myself. But think how cool ritual chamber you could make with money, and altars and statues to the entities of power! but yeah, i don’t know would that be more of art and collection than occultism.


You gotta learn to grow up before you start getting into magick. I’m all for using magick to cheat with the normal necessities of life, but if you are doing so, you gotta have something in mind that this “cheating” liberates you to do. For many people, money is life, so if that was made easy for them… well then you can’t really expect much there. Folks gotta learn to grow up beyond their current understanding of the world, because while it would seem obvious to me that one would use that freedom to learn deeper magick from first-hand masters, it’s not something that registers for many modern practitioners.

That’s why, in my opinion, Western magick has kinda been stuck in a way in which magick is highly masturbatory, rather than integrative in life. Folks want to still be married to their ideas of the world, when they come to magick to loosen the constraints set by those very ideas. Again, that goes for both the so-called noble and innoble ideals alike. I guess I been pretty fortunate that most of the practitioners I have personal correspondence with were not products of modern, Western systems, otherwise I would probably be stuck without important qualities like patience, which honestly is a recent development.

You can be piloting a supersonic jet, and yet it would mean nothing if you can’t even bring yourself to get it off the ground, let alone sore through the sky at the speed of sound. There are far more things you could do with money to further help you find far more things to do with magick… learning how to communicate with other beings, both organic (i.e. plants, animals, microbials) and inorganic (i.e. machines, tools, weapons) is just one small thing that would open you to a whole new way of what the potential of reality could offer and what you could do in the world. You have to grow your perspective.


I’d buy a church in central London and have it as a meeting centre for the huge number of pagans, occultists and mages who are crap at money magick… so many little groups I used to be part of that broke up when they lost whatever friend’s flat or cheap meeting room they used to use, so, on the “If you build it, they will come” kind of philosophy I’d do that.

Obviously I’d slant it more towards LHP ideas and black magick, but a lot of us arrived at this through other streams of thought and it’s always good to cast your net wide, maybe just make sure to have plenty of LHP literature around and stuff.

Aside from meetings, I’d have a monthly marketplace for people who want to sell the kind of stuff TWF makes in the USA, like sigils carved into wood or oils and stuff, and I’d pay fuckloads of money to get the original installations inside covered protectively, to specs that would satisfy the citeria for a Listed Building, and then have loads of occult symbols, Runes, even a UC on the floor if y’all promise to show up for a festival now and then! :smiley:

I have this one in mind, it doesn’t look much in the photos but it’s fucking stunning from the outside, totally dominates that entire area:

I’m actually kind of serious, though I don’t have any major plans to get my hands on that kind of cash, but it’s a nice idea and I think it would do for black magick, and general pagan and alternative spirituality, what the British Museum’s building and provision has done for the entire field of archeology.

If I ever did become genuinely and seriously rich, I’d definitely like to leave some kind of real heritage, and I’m not interested in pushing myself into the spotlight as an author or teacher so that kind of thing would suit me really well.

And, yeah, I’d have to have loads of kinky and perverse sex on the altar, but mostly my intention would be quite grown-up, and even philanthropic! :smiley:


That is an excellent idea Lady Eva. I have always kind of had this vision/dream about some kind of community meeting quarters - whether it was occult or something else i was part of… but its an interesting thought.

And not only meeting quarters, maybe some people could even live there :open_mouth: idk i have many thoughts.

It would be hard, if not impossible, to get planning permission to convert the building for partial residential use, though personally I’d HAVE to live in it on the sly and sleep on the altar at least sometimes… it’s listed as a place of worship and that’d be the best way to keep it, under planning laws, but there would be possibilities to hold overnight vigils and stuff, aka whopping great black mass orgies, it’d literally be down to the bureaucracy of providing lavatory facilities, disabled access, and so on.

There’s a crypt, as well, so Euoi & co. could have fun down there, something for all the family! :wink:

I know quite a lot about planning law as a result of other things and it would be feasible to accomplish something like this, since there’s not a change of use, it’s mainly down to money - first, to acquire the building, or at least the lease for a good long period, and then to pay to meet every last spec for altering it without damaging the original features and so on.

It’s in the same area as the British Museum, which is a few blocks south, the British Library is just a few blocks north, and also Birkbeck College is across the road from that church, and a bunch of other similar places, so it’d be cool to acquire a house in that area and have that fitted out as a library and educational centre of excellence for studying deep occultism, not just disguising it under the semi-academic title of “parapsychology” or whatever.

There’s a College of Psychic Studies in west London that’s legit, so there’s actually a precedent for this, and Watkins, Treadwells, and even newagey shop Mysteries are all a short walk away.

Not really something I have much hope of accomplishing, but it’s nice to have wild plans and dreams, mixed in with the everyday stuff! :smiley:


I’m not saying anything to your vision, but in my vision it wouldn’t have to be declared as a partial living quarters building - whatever i would have built/bought the members might just go live there for a while without informing any other organizations - just like someone would be visiting their friend for few weeks. Anyways i wasn’t talking about a church in london in my vision anyways :open_mouth: i’m not sure what i was talking about.

Sounds good!! :slight_smile:

Does anyone else on here have semi-serious plans or daydreams for anything like this, or anything else major if you acquired really significant amounts of power and/or money?


I just want to add that i cannot promise that even if i got million dollars/quids/bucks/stearlings/euros now :smiley: because building a massive community building like that to wizards would probably cost multiple millions. It always depends on the scale size of the daydream, there is possibility to do these things in smaller size for less amount of money.

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