Whats the difference in how different “love” demons work?

Fantastic, thank you very much Norski.

I’ll look into that book, it was already on my list because someone mentioned it here in the forum but I was a bit on the fence about buying it. Thanks for clearing that out and especially for telling me about not modifying the rituals.
I work within a LHP/draconian current and I was thinking about adapting them to my usual practice, but I’ll give it a go using the rituals as they are, as per your suggestion, and see how it goes.

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Always try the recepie as is before modifying it right?

I love the structure and the deeper I go with it the more powerful it is.

Feel free to experiment later (of course) but give it an honest go as is first

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Yeah I know what you mean, would make sense to try it as it is and then eventually make modification if it doesn’t work well for me.

My concern was more about how the ritual are performed, because you use the archangels to “force” the demon to work with you, while I’ve always worked in with demons on the same level, so “ask” and not “command” in the past and I feel that now trying to force them in this other way could break that relationship established with those forces, if that makes sense.

I’ve bought the book in the meantime and I’m reading through it so I can see better what’s that about.

What do you think about this? Ever found yourself in this situation?


the archangels aren’t called to force the demons to perform their task. They are there to facilitate. Gordon Winterfield explicitly states this in the book


Hi Verdo,

Thanks for your answer.

The books states this at the beginning (around page 2 or 3):

For each demon in this book, you will find a sigil that contains the demon’s unique seal, a seal for its ruling angel, and written in Hebrew the names of three Angelic Emissaries that constrain that particular demon. In total, there are two hundred and eighty-eight angels, several divine words, a ritual to wield power, and a ritual to encourage the embodiment of archangels. Against these powers, no demon can resist or rebel.

So “constrain” and “against these powers, no demon can resist or rebel” seem kind of a strong wording for a mutual agreement to work, that’s why I was worried about the procedure.

I’ll keep reading the book and I hope that when I reach the part you are referring to, it will explain more clearly the type of connection is going to happen using the rituals, and resolve my doubts.


Alright man, I had issues with that too but I was lead (by Belial no less) back to the authority sense I had lost for a minute.

All my best rituals happened when I spoke to the spirits as if I had the divine right to talk to them.

Everything in existence responds to two things: Mutual Respect, and Authority.

Before I go deeper in I’ll say that these spirits readily show their power in the same way a rockstar will readily get on stage and shred the hell out of their instrument. Very similar draw actually.

Don’t make the mistake of “hoping it works” because self fulfilling prophecy is a thing and they manifest the way you expect them to. If a religious church lady were to somehow call on one she’d encounter something as terrifying as she’s expect it to be.

If you expect them to show up in a comely form that’s tactful, they’ll be tactful.

Calling on them and asking them to perform gives their existence a meaning. It’s like your life mission, you just have to do it and nobody has to offer you a damn thing to get you involved with what makes you come alive.

They need it and are very determined, even eager to show their power.

Keep in mind if you call on them and make arrangements without authority you might find yourself subject to their will.

I am indeed friends with my patron spirits, yet it’s within the power structure I set out. I am the king, ruler, emperor of my existence and they are my Royal Guard. There is absolutely zero conditional offerings. I simply show what I can offer and give generously without expectation as a reward.

The power split cannot be denied. Think of any human relationship you’ve seen. They’re equal, yet one person is always more reactive to the situation than the other. The happiest relationships I’ve ever seen/been in are where the dude is leading the dance and the girl follows giddily because she gets to be feminine. It gets fucked up when he doesn’t respect her and …well that’s where feminism came from. Lose respect and people go to war with their own nature and tell you it’s your fault.

Lead the dance. Command Demons. Yet treat them with the respect you would a king. Doing this makes you a God in that moment and reality yields to your will. …do you see how this works?

Remember Azazel’s quote to EA. “The hierarchy of the infernal empire is as follows: You, and everything else in existence.”

They want a strong leader on the corporeal plane, just as women (also yin conciousness, think about this) will obsessively want a man they can’t control. Someone who has a reality so strong they want to tame it. They just get fucked over a lot because exciting can also mean being a total asshole. Think of how many go back to some ass who beats them though… The power of authority. It’s so strong some seek to transcend it and yet nobody can rob nature and get away with it.

This applies to demons. They will readily and eagerly serve a magician who speaks to them as a God. If you try to transaction a relationship with a girl she’ll play games with you eventually. If you excite the hell out of her and treat her like a woman while also making her feel her value?

She’ll die for a man like that…

How eager do you want your Royal Guard to respond? Are they even your guard? Are they your master? Are they just “friends?” Or are you a great and loved leader they’ll fall in line for and readily serve with Intelligence, foresight, and dignity because you play the part of one who deserves such treatment?

This took a while for me to figure out. How do you think Solomon talked to them? You have the infernal empire ready to come when called, ready to show their power, ready to move the earth for you and yet you want to move from the throne room to your dining room to “maybe see if they could do something for you?”

Lift your head up, treat them as grand Kings, Dukes, and Earls in your Divine Empire, and command as an omnipotent being.

There’s a God in you


Thank you Norski for you reply, your posts are always enlightening!
I see your point and have now understood what you meant.

It’s certainly something I needed to understand and the way how you conveyed the information it was extremely helpful, especially because you explained the reasons.

I will definitely use this approach from now on.



Do you have more experiences with Haniel @Norski?

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Hey I’m just curious…for the petitions did you use the cipher or wrote them out in English? Also would you say the results are as fast and effective with either ritual? I’m just starting out with this but I kinda need some serious baneful work done that’s hard to achieve with very stubborn targets so I’m wondering if a petition would be enough considering I haven’t dipped my toe in the water yet and dont know the energy either demon would bring forth so a part of me wants to play it safe and see how their energy is like and what to expect but another part tells me do ritual 2 for something as urgent and serious as my request…also who’d you recommend starting with?

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I’d say the evocations are easier to do than the petitions actually, less steps. You do need to get deeper into gnosis though and a lot of people are skittish about demonic contact

I’ve had amazing results from both methods. Can’t really go wrong with either. I usually do an evocation and sometimes do the petition when I want to make it “In writing” so to speak. The evocations allow you to telegraph more details to them yet you still need the same statement you’d use in a petition anyway.

Definitely use the cipher


He’s opened my intuition a lot.

I’d also reccomend working with the Shemhamphorash Angels. Eshaliah is a very cool one, so is Yeliel


Whatever language you prefer, you could also have it in your native language.

I think rituals 2 or 3 is best for urgent requests. As they will advise you as well to do this and to do that, for your petition to progress or manifest fast. Like they will advise you to do some physical or mental work as well.

King Belial if DOM.

Lucifer (not in DOM) as well. He is the best beginner friendly spirit, he’s wise and is patient too.


What book are they in??

Are u sure I’m absolutely safe and summoning no other fake entity if I use ritual 2 under the DOM manual? And why Belial? I need someone who can break up a very unjust strong relationship that broke my family before they walk down the aisle next year and I know Leraje is for that but as a first timer never working with Demons before idk how I’d feel making my first contact with a King who may be offended if I speak to him too authoritatively or give in to w.e he demands because of fear and him being a king. Lol

And when u use the cipher do you still write tje names of tje people fully with DOB? I’d imagine that’d be pretty long and complicated lol

The Lesser Key of Solomon. Same current as the Goetia

My working method is Damon Brand’s 72 Angels of Magick

I use a ton of Gallery of Magick systems and they’re deeply split tested as nitipicky as digital marketers test their websites. It’s a great fit if you can get the emotional transmutation down and learn how to detach once it’s done

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I just use their name. Date of birth and all that stuff is just for personal comfort. If you know, the spirits know. I’ve done spells with nothing but visualization for a moment while driving and it manifested.

Your confidence and assurance matters more than anything you could ever dress the spells up with. Don’t get lost in particulars. Bolster it enough to feel like you’re doing special and just “know” it’ll work and it will


Can I PM you? Is that ok?

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Their method of doing it more than anything.