Well I’m done asking spirits for stuff , evocation hardly works for me

General Discussion
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I mean this in the most respectful way to these spirits but the very little results I’ve gottne from magick have always had some little shit attached to it.

I’ll keep it basic out of respect for the spirit but recently I feel like a certain someone is pushing me to move even though financially I don’t THINK I can do it. Ok . This is huge goal of mine I kept putting off for awhile. Makes sense.

Madethe arrangments , I might actually be alright granted I live out of my comfort zone for just a little while but that’s life. It’s A spiritual journey so if anything I’m looking forward to it.

Well anyway as of today everything completely fell through. My mechanic or “my guy” had a very simple task. Something I could’ve done it if I had the tools as I’m very mechanically inclined but it would be extremely tedious without them as I’ve also saved the money I would’ve spent on a really good set of those as well.

Anyway just an alignment for my front tires and change my oil and differential fluid. Easy peasy. Man hasn’t even touched my truck yet and knew I said I had to leave today or tommorow.

When he asks for money just gonna tell him to suck. This isn’t the first time he’s done this shit , taken wayyyyyy too long but he does honest work and is a friend of the family so I always have him the benefit of the doubt.

So now I didn’t have a way to work this morning anyway if I decided to stay another week but one of the foreman’s likes to send you home after you put your notice in anyway so I was gonna pull a no call no show.

I can’t even turn my harness and other equipment in to my temp agency so I hope I get my truck back in time to get my last paycheck deposited.

I’ve had a really shitty background so I’m strong enough to pick up the pieces and I kinda wanted to start from the ground up anyway. I’ll be fine. What angers me is I had a spirit agree to things 3 times now and they haven’t been of help.

So somethings going wrong. Either I’m not really telepathically speaking to these goetic spirits( I normally evoke the same 3 or 4 btw. ) or they’re just as lazy or apathetic to my desires even when offered something in return.

King paimon is the only one who’s helped me and he’s made it known he’s not too fond of me but hey , he’s useful. Got a little mixed results with him at first but eventually sorted that out.

I don’t think these spirits are evil but I don’t think they’re as great as everyone on this forum makes them out to be.

Anyone know of any good shamanic systems to practice ? Mostly energy work and stuff like AP? I’m done working with spirits.

Still haven’t decided if these spirits are just self induced hallucinations or external energies. Who have I been clairaudientally speaking to then ? I guess I’m just crazy. I have had some expierence a that seemed very “real” to me. I guess all the “physic senses” are just self induced delusions.

Funny thing is I’ve always felt really drawn to the LHP but it just doesn’t work for me. Atleast not right now.

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I am sorry you feel this way. I don’t mean this is a mean way, but maybe if you change your attitude and are a bit more appreciative of really anything they do for us, you’ll begin to get better results. I don’t know, just saying I don’t think calling him “useful” is very nice. I get it, he told you he doesn’t like you, but maybe you can get him to like you? Hope you can get it to work for you, otherwise good luck. I really hope you find something else that works and you like :slight_smile:

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I suggest sigil creation for your magical needs. I believe that the spirits are all aspects of our subconscious and if there are real gods, I doubt any of us are making legitimate contact. And if you don’t possess much latent abilities to begin with, then summoning “spirits” won’t help much.

Fill this out and screenshot the results of what planets are in which signs, what planets are in which houses, and the aspects of your planets, and I’ll let you know if you have any latent magical ability, or if you need to rely on external tools.

All my planets are in magically significant planets, and my planetary aspects are great.

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I believe I understand where you’re coming from, I was in your position a while back and I went through similar path. Allow me to disagree with your conclusion, here’s why…

You get from the ritual, what you put into it. If your main focus is to make a contact with a spirit, you’ll make a contact with a spirit. But here’s the thing :

A successful contact, doesn’t guarantee a successful outcome.

Aiming for a contact with a spirit is only 50% of the formula. The other 50%, which is way more important in my opinion, is that you must keep your desired end result, present in the ritual, more than your focus on manifesting the spirit.

The classic evocation method, which is basically contacting the spirit, asking what you want - verbally - giving offerings and wait for what you want. Will only work perfectly for people with disciplined religious faith in the spirit they contact. The same way you get results from any prayer to any God or deity. Faith is the key for success in this type of petition magick.

On the opposite side, there’s shamanic magick or energy work. Where you use your own energy to manifest reality the way you want. No spirits needed. And that’s what you’re after now. Under this category, we find techniques like visualization, emotional projection, energy manipulation and similar practices. Very common example, of course, is the law of attraction techniques.

But you don’t have to choose one or the other. You can use both for maximum success. Because with shamanic rituals you need to release your energy at the end of the ritual. And it’s much better to release it to a spirit, than just release it to the something you don’t know anything about and find hard time to imagine. Like, the universe or the astral light for example.

My suggestion to you is to use both and examine your results. Call the spirit the same way you do in any classic evocation. Once a contact is made, don’t stop there… start the second process and concentrate on your desired end result, as if you’re doing energy work without a spirit. When your work is complete, you can then release it to the spirit to make it happen.

Two possible outcomes from this technique :

1 - The spirit doesn’t do anything. In this case you already used your own energy and released that to manifest your desire. Even if the spirit didn’t help, your own energy will be enough.

2 - The spirit works to get you want you want. And the energy you released will help make things even better. You’ll manifest what you want faster, and get exactly what you had in mind.

I encourage you to learn how to use your own energy to manifest. That’s what you’re planning to do anyway now, which is a wonderful thing. After that, I highly recommend that you go back and use your knowledge in your evocations and working with spirits.

I suggest that you look for books and occult lessons by “Ophiel”, you’ll find them very helpful.

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Couldn’t disagree more. Apparently they didn’t turn out to be as ”useful“ to you but let me tell you, respectfully, that it is and always will be up to you to do the work. Spirits can help you fix your attitude and outlook on your life and its challenges, they can help you gain more self-respect, and they can even manipulate events or people in your favor. But not without your active involvement and yes, sometimes things will go south because the timing wasn’t right or maybe your goal isn’t that easily attainable or wasn’t the best thing for you in the first place…many reasons. Don’t blame the spirits, they work with you as in collaborators, not for you as in subordinates.

They are not self-induced hallucinations. There is waaaay more than our meager five senses, dumbed down from the day we’re born by a system hell-bent on keeping us ignorant. Don’t doubt your experiences. Work on developing them, which takes time and, though more natural to some people, is a learning process that requires persistence and patience. People have been working with these so-called delusions for millennia and there is a reason why they have been so persistent in humanity’s evolution. By the way, modern science (esp physics) is discovering that more and more of the so-called delusions are, in fact, very real. I recommend reading ”Real Magic“ by Dean Radin, if you’re interested in a rational and scientific approach to psychic phenomena.

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@Lux_Tenebris Absolutely agree with your first bit. The results don’t just fall in your lap so to say.

Magick still has to have an opening , but when I give something a very reasonable deadline and nothing happens and it’s something I really wanted or was passionate about (digging into that other guys post about will) and I get told “it is done” then yeah I consider that beating around the bush.

I mean yea I’ll admit sometimes results don’t mainifeast in the way that you expect and it catches you off guard but that’s different.

I’m not one to believe magick will only work on some things . That’s a load of crap. Magicks there to give you the opportunities you wouldn’t have had normally.

A great example would be using magick for a job. If I’m almost overqualified for said job I’ll get it magick or not.

I don’t need to use magick for that but if someone where to come up here and ask for help getting a job they’re a little underqualified for some of the answers would be “ oh well magick doesn’t really work that way”.

Why ? Because it’s not something you couldn’t have done easily yourself ? I don’t get it. What’s the point of doing magick then ? Just using the above as an ex. Not saying everyone thinks like that and makes excuses for their magick.

Your will should be strong enough to crush and dominate any little obstacles like that.

And lol @ the person who said I don’t respect the big KP. I will always hold him in such a high regaurd because even thought he had a very few choice words about me he still did what I asked in the end and the results where great.

I was just going about things the wrong way. Astaroth seemed like a nice spirit as well. I get the feeling she likes watching humans walk their path and ascend.

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This is it for me. I joined here to learn about 'em. But no task I ever give them that they were able to carry out.

There is more to it though. It isn’t that simple. There are lots of mysteries behind all these things.
But i can be of help, if you don’t mind. Can U sense or see Spirits clearly? I can send to you other beings (not demon nor angels - never come across them in people’s books too). Maybe they can help in the areas you want.

I even met some beings recently, they have blue skin. All powers. But Demons? I’ve almost totally put 'em off.

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@luxfero I can have telepathic conversations and if I get in a deep enough trance I can see outlines and almost always get orbs of energies/ floaters and stuff.

I feel their energy when they get close and feel like I’m being touched sometimes.

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Personally I’m starting to consider non-evocation options (or looking at other entities) for my goals, and work with Spirits about Ascent and knowledge. And after all, a good thing may be that since I initially thought of summoning as granting more power and success, perhaps they are pushing me towards realizing my power.

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Not necessarily, though I totally get what you’re saying. I was told something would sort itself out that used to be very important to me for a very long time. Outwardly, absolutely nothing has changed. But inwardly, my entire approach to this subject has changed dramatically like I never would have believed possible, which has in fact made my life so much easier on a day-to-day, practical level (and no, I’m not trying to deny it or tell myself that I never really wanted it to begin with, it just has completely been transformed into something much better that I simply never would have seen this way before). Also, it’s not unheard of that spirits would not work with you until you sorted certain things out for yourself first, or intentionally not fulfill what you asked them to do for reasons they leave up to you to figure out (or ask them and be prepared for some potentially unpleasant answers).

Magick, to me, is alchemy of the soul/ psyche/ spirit, or whatever you choose to call it, which ultimately leads to the discovery and empowerment of who you truly are. And in that higher context it doesn’t even really matter if you believe you’re communicating with external beings from another dimension, or think you’re just talking to yourself, because in the latter case you’d program yourself to activate a smarter, more powerful version of yourself (hopefully) that gets sh*t done. But that also happens more or less automatically if you work more closely with spirits or follow a path that resonates best with you. And maybe it’s both, in a way we do not fully understand as of yet.

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With that attitude towards them, no wonder they don’t wish to work with you. Place yourself in their position? How would you feel if a stranger asked you daily to do this or that like you are a wishing machine? He’s useful…I’m sure he appreciates that. He is a King after all and I suppose that he’s here to just…be useful to you.

You seem to think that they owe you something? If you approached me that way and spoke of me that way, I’d make sure everything in your life was shit, too. Just an honest perspective based on what you’re revealing.

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@Kulina8 Once again I’ve never but respectfully asked for something and offered something return. I even said in another post I highly respect KP but maybe you missed that ?

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To be fair though, they list their offices and all seem to appreciate being publicly thanked, which affirms that they will assist in these ways.

It’s kind of like, you have the right to refuse or even resent someone you barely know imposing on you, but when at work, you have no right to refuse or resent your boss asking you to do your job as laid out in the employment contract, because you have agreed to perform that role.

And afaik @username666’s real problem is that spirits agree to take tasks but then don;t see them through.

I don’t have time to dig into why using magick, but I think this is one of the biggest problems here, is that he has comms, but they’re not delivering.

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A ritual is a form of contract, in which offerings or something are exchanged for help, and the spirits we work with have gone to considerable lengths to make their names and offices known.

Magick is about results, not “hand it over and let the ‘Will of God’/your karma call the shots.”

That’s a philosophical difference, but going by what OP has described he does actually NEED these things, he’s not just throwing out demands for gold-plated supermodels to throw themselves at him.

And define “evolve” - there are probably as many definitions of that as there are members of this forum. this is our realm, we have a right to desire to master it.

Anyway the core issue seems to be why he gets the workings confirmed by the spirit, but no result.

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Have a lovely day, OP. I wish you well in your endeavors and in your approach.

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What? Are you mad about the truck? Car trouble is the main reason I was considering giving up on goetia for good, you know, putting it down permanently and never looking back. But avoiding the downsides seems to come down to one thing.
DON’T ASK FOR STUPID SHIT!
there, I said it.
So, then the question becomes, how do you know you are asking the right spirit help with the right things.
Lets break this down to a step by step process.
1.) Divination - I don’t care if you are going to do Tarot cards, and or just a simple tracing out of the spirits sigil to get a feel for it, you need some kind of indicator of if the working you want to preform is a good idea. It should be clear when it is not.
2.) Knowing yourself - don’t ask for stuff just because someone else thinks you should do something, society says you should go get a job, so you go do a get a job working, that might not work so well.
Now, if you truly know something would make you happy, then go for it, otherwise, yes, it is probably a bad idea, see 1.)
3.) Ask yourself if you would ask a real person to do this task. Why or why not? This isn’t really a step, but more things to consider in whether your request is appropriate.

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So, i think we could use a few more details of what rituals you did, what happened during the ritual, what you asked for and how it failed. If i were to take a guess, its that you aren’t really getting into as deep a trance as you think. All of the commentary about how you’re disrespecting the spirits, or asking for too much, or not subservient enough is honestly a load of crap. Its just shit being thrown at the wall hoping something will stick. People don’t know exactly what the issue is, so they are just coming up with a whole bunch of wish wash.

@Lady_Eva is correct. We aren’t on the left hand path to replace yahweh with another god. We do it for results. Period. So if you aren’t getting results, you do have a right to be aggrieved. I think you need to read through this thread i made some time ago to bolster your confidence in the spirits ability to enact change in peoples lives. What id like to know frankly is how much time passed between your ritual and now. Also consider that there have been several occasions where spirits have had to clear out shit from a persons old life before bringing in the stuff they want. I’ve seen this happen time and time again. Personally though, i have my doubts that you’re actually summoning anything. You may “feel” like you are, but what i do know is that if an entity…especially well established ones, say they are going to do something for you…then thats exactly what they are going to do. The spirits aren’t “lazy” lol. They don’t operate with the same limitations we do. If evocation isn’t working for you, you’ve gotta assume that you are doing something wrong…because magick is rarely the limiting factor as to why a particular operation failed

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@Verdo Well then I’ll just have to meditate much longer because I know I’m getting close to the TGS when I feel like I start to disconnect from my body/reality and if I do happen to open my eyes everything around me is much different.

Hard to explain but if you’ve ever been in a trance before you know exactly what I mean. Everything starts to get much darker and outlines start to blur and distort. You start to see clouds of mist , normally purple , come and go.

I’m getting into something for sure but your right , astral senses don’t develop over night, that’s for sure.

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Took the words right out of my mouth.

Or if we are, it is quite strange and not at all like the narratives we hear from most. But yeah, most entities we come across are IMO products of human consciousness, whether from within or in a collective, Jungian sense. I’m still completely convinced that some forces are beyond the scope of the human condition, but that would be the exception rather than the rule.

@username666 taking the above into consideration, have you tried combining chaos magick (Spare variety) with your evocation? In other words, create and fully charge your intent as a personal sigil, then use that sigil during your spirit evocation. If the spirit is in fact a product of your own subconsciousness then having that subconscious pre-programmed with your intent could make the ‘spirit’ more compliant with your dictates.

Good luck.

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I agree with @Caliwiz