Question or two for those (really, truly) Adepts to Magus

What were your most frightening experiences in your life of doing Magick?

How long did it take you to truly know yourself?

How did you deal with frustrations in Magick (including results)?

How did you move past your doubts and frustrations rather than just moving forward like an ox?

What were your first couple real authentic results (as much as you’re willing to share of course)

How did you successfully become a grey magician (one of my many paths in the past), without either ending up a LHP or RHP solid devotee?

Why did you choose the RHP or LHP, or in between (like me)?

Thank you!! <3

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Also …
What exercises on the grey path should a student be doing by grade or category daily?

Haven’t had any that count. I feel this is because fear is for the protection of the physical body, and I’m not so very bi-located that I feel like I’m really phsyically there, so when things happen that would threaten the integrity of my vessel, I, and more importantly my amygdala, is not concerned that there is any real danger.

How long did it take you to truly know yourself?

This is a multi lifetime work, the more I know the more I realise how much I don’t know. Part of the purpose of longevity exercises, is to buy you time to reach ascension/enlightenment, as 80 years is not enough.

How did you deal with frustrations in Magick (including results)?

Persistence, learning, trying again. Rinse and repeat. Practice, practice practice.

How did you move past your doubts and frustrations rather than just moving forward like an ox?

Read a lot. Think a lot, Try new things, be prepared to change your mind, same as above question.

What were your first couple real authentic results (as much as you’re willing to share of course)

Height grew 1/2 inch, targets of death curses disappeared, targets of bindings stopped bothering me, a job was secured, healings happened, but most of all learning and reaching entities I wanted to talk to about things that are nothing to do with human matters are prepared to talk to me. This is what I’m most interested in.

How did you successfully become a grey magician (one of my many paths in the past), without either ending up a LHP or RHP solid devotee?

This question assumes there even is such a thing. :thinking: :slight_smile: Why should there be?
I just don’t believe in the LHP/RHP dualistic way of looking at things. I certainly don’t believe in devotion as a useful or helpful device. I do what I want, when I want, without reference to this type of dogma… and yes, I think the term “LHP” is dogmatic, in that it comes from a philosophy with unstated and JCI based assumptions that I don’t necessarily agree with.

I am not religious, I don’t think you need religion to have morals, I have my own personal ethics I follow, I don’t care about other people’s dualistic philosophies that much; they are not mine.

Why did you choose the RHP or LHP, or in between (like me)?

See above. I have never actually identified as “LHP” or “RHP” or “grey”. Other people can label me if that helps them, that’s not my business what they think of me, I do not subscribe to this way of labeling things.

I’m just me.

“Adepts to Magus”

Not sure what you mean by this exactly, but if you really want to become adept, I think you have to stop letting yourself be defined by everybody else’s second hand ideas. It’s like, you’re looking at yourself through the eyes of people you never met and will never know, how are you supposed to find yourself doing that?
Be yourself to find yourself.


Yes!! These are the sort of answers I’m seeking :slight_smile:


The best advice I can impart is learning to accept every part of yourself even the parts you may not necessarily like


They weren’t. But Occult-wise, it was in Kuwait, before the war kicked off in Iraq. I was in a guard tower with a friend one night and we could see a couple of people moving around in some empty buildings. The problem was that there were no more floors in those buildings, just metal framing pieces. Dozens of people had been lined up against a wall and shot to death in that exact area when Iraq invaded Kuwait. I realized that I couldn’t turn off my senses, as much as I had tried to at that point and that scared the shit out of me. They were coming back and we knew the war was coming. What would I also see due to that when the time came because of them? Pretty damn scary.

I think this answer should change over time. I don’t think it’s as much a matter of “knowing” , but maybe understanding (or remembering?). I think it comes from experiences and reflection, but that could just be me. There’s always something we haven’t experienced that can test us in some way. So, when I die, I may have my answer then. Maybe…

Still do. Maybe I didn’t get that intent manifested quite the way I’d hoped or maybe someone intervened to alter it to be better for my growth. I have a tendency to get what I need, but getting all I want when I want still seems to be a work in progress. I hear a lot of “wait for the right time” answers when I ask about it. It WILL happen, but I get impatient. Still human. I ask for larger things, though and actively put energy towards their manifestation. I pay for what I want.

Taoism helped here. I spent a lot of time listening to Taoist talks on Sundays with my Tai Chi/Qigong instructor, who also lectured. Really helped my outlook after the war and I use that type of flow and approach in my workings. I didn’t approach it from a magical perspective, because I wasn’t doing any ritual work at the time.

I don’t look at things this way. If you’re talking ritualistic workings, then my first success was identifying the Goddess that kept coming to me. The next was using the methods of Demonolatry to call her forth. The third was reopening (easiest way to describe) my old skills again I had closed off as a child.

The fourth was when Hecate told me to then call Leviathan, who wasn’t as “easy” to call (she wanted to be called upon). It took weeks of working every day, several times a day (3-4 times or more, different processes). Doesn’t sound like much, but I already had my senses opened, I’d already called her a dozen times (and Nyx and Persephone to find it was Hecate). If I had let myself grab my own “power” and authority and gotten my head and ego out of the way, it would’ve happened more easily. Then, I was told to practice doing that again and again, which I did.

Periodically, spirits I’ve called scores of times will make me work for it again. It’s a good thing. It prepares the magician for evoking people, even when they don’t want to be evoked and resist. One of the hardest evocation I’ve done was someone on this forum that needed to be called, consented, and still fought me tooth and nail. Wouldn’t have been possible without practice.

If I use that term or MHP, it’s for convenience. I am me. I can only follow my path. Sometimes, that will veer one way or another, but I believe in balance and believe in being balanced. It happened before my foray into Taoism, but that absolutely left a mark and, to me, valuable lessons.

Another thing that I show in my documented practice. When artists first start out (in general and in specific areas), they frequently do so by copying other people’s works. Over time, they modify them into their own ways of approaching and defining their own styles later on. You can see that when I approach a topic (book, style) of magic, I do the same and document what I do, what I didn’t do, the alterations, and what I feel would work better for my particular style. Later, in another thread or the same, I rework that into existing things I use. Same type of thing the artists do. I don’t always get it right the first time and frequently question every part of the process, but doing the rituals for that system can alleviate some of those things.

I don’t like the term “adept” or “magus”. So I’ll refer to those proficient in one or more areas. First, they DO. Then, they work to become proficient at what they do. That takes having experiences. Sounds familiar.


Oookie this seems a good thread to ask a couple or 3 questions so here’s some questions for a highly experienced magickian to please answer …

  1. What magick path or work do you consider to be the most dangerous to engage in either physically dangerous or mentally dangerous to one’s sanity?

  2. Other then Wicca type magick, which magick path or work in magick do you consider to be the safest or least dangerous to engage in either physically or mentally?

  3. What is the strangest experience you ever had in doing a magickal workings?

Add: Ya I know the third ones probably what could be considered a loaded question. I still hope you’ll answer it.

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Handful of various things:

  • first time Belial showed up in force, palpable presence in my room, temperature plummeted, and my pendulum started swinging wildly. Very electrifying experience
  • doing a pathworking to the Māori god of war, death, and cannibalism without taking a guide with me, he showed up with a horde of warrior spirits who did NOT like the fact that a non-Māori/non-Polynesian was calling. The Belial thing was viscerally alarming but this was the first time I was like “hmmm I might actually have fucked up pretty badly here”
  • not hugely frightening but when a bunch of random entities have shown up in my room/temple either in the hypnagogic state or in meditation. Doesn’t frighten me as much as piss me off
  • with the Law, there was one instance where I got a huge amount of movement in a really short amount of time, and that kind of scared me in an existential way, and because of the changes to my life it involved I got a bit sad and I flip-flopped, and then something really bad happened to one of my loved ones. I don’t think they’re related (like I don’t blame myself for it) but it was scary as hell because of the real world consequences .

Laugh it off or shrug it off or cry it out, take it as a learning experience, examine what I might have done differently, and then accept the fact that I’m generally constrained to a 3D perception of linear time and I don’t know for sure if that’s the end of it (unless it was time-specific/time-limited)

Never really had doubts. Just kept telling myself that everything always works out in my favour and got on with the next ritual, project, or pathworking.

Because I’m generally curious about everything and I’m not going to limit myself to one system, despite my paradigm. I’d consider myself more of a chaos magician than anything, or at least, a chaos mage approach to the LHP.

See above. Don’t see any point in closing myself off from any branch of magic I find interesting because it’s outside of whatever given dogma/idealogy.


Once upon a time, I was genuinely very afraid that I was going to be hunted down and physically assaulted, specifically shot and killed, by an extremely aggressive and hateful man. Azazel told me to skip town, either the next day or a few days later, which I did. I tried skipping the country, and I even got a reading from someone else (goes to show my mind-state), and the cards said that a very significant relationship of a certain type was waiting for me in this place, but I got blocked by the government.

The scariest things of that time were not the spirits, but the more I live my life, the more I realize that there is nothing scarier. I am generally confident in my ability to do curses, but I also realize that sometimes these things take time for some reason (there have always been reasons) and I’m not about to roll the dice. Nice magick, nerd. Bang

This is a continually unfolding process.

By telling magick to go fuck itself. Then engaging in learning.

At a certain point you manifest enough shit that you can’t deny what is happening, even if your surface mind tries to.

Baneful magick. Then protection, then money. Seduction has never really been my strong suit. People have made me play enough games as it is, and I find the whole process to be rather tiring and quite often either borderline or straight-up rapey or a complete waste of my time cause they were never open to mutual pleasure-giving anyways. If you want attention, you have to give me what I want. I like giving attention and making people feel good, but I don’t like getting my chain yanked or being treated like a personal therapist. Time and space for consideration without pressure is one thing, but deliberate obfuscation is just annoying. Influence magick has also worked very well for me, although this is usually the least obvious.

Like many others, I think these distinctions become less tangible the deeper you go, but in terms of the culture LHP people tend to be more relatable to me personally.

This is ultimately decided by you and your reaction to magickal events.

I’ve never done Wicca, but again this is ultimately decided by you and your reaction to magickal events.

All of it, really, but it still gets me when the barrier between my internal mind and the external world is clearly blurred. People will say it is confirmation bias. I assure you I doubt everything, most of all my effectiveness. If something can overcome the force of my skepticism, really that’s impressive.


Great answers all :slight_smile:

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I think this is as much about how one goes about a path as the path itself. Take the Shadownomicon. If you work through it, it’s a sort of confrontation with your shadow aspects, using shadow archetypal entities. I was led to do it the way I stated in my Balg journal - direct, raw, challenging, and without the recommended protections. It was a very rough time and I had already done a lot of personal and professional work in those areas for years before that. But others just call them up and walk away until the next month, letting things manifest or not.

Same path, different approaches, (probably) very different risk levels. Certainly not as safe as simply doing a black flame meditation, but that isn’t a path, but an activity.

I have to stay within those areas I have experience in, but the Angelic personal work and Helios Theurgy have been really mild and stable, compared to a lot of my other work. I know there are others here that could point out specific angelic entities could refute this, but that brings me to my next generalization…

I think there’s more risk when directly dealing with entities, rather than going through a system. When you remove the safety barriers or balancing aspects systems have in place, rings get more gritty. I would say it is more likely that the more refined and balanced systems are the least risky. Want less risk? Go with a (refined) system.

I don’t rank my weird happenings, but here’s a strange one.

I don’t get a lot of uninvited spiritual visitors, due to how I deal with parasites, so when a ghost girl or teen in a white nightgown ran through my house, into my space, took a right, and kept running down the back of the complex, it took me by surprise. I was in the middle of ritual. Never saw or felt her again. Never saw or felt anything chasing her. But she was absolutely hauling ass.


Most frightening time was making a powerful Goetic prince angry through my arrogant behavior.

Ask me In another 20 years

Tremendous success with evoking prince Orobas. Got a job and vehicle and increased my dignity in ten days

I started out a RHP Kabbalist and then went middle pillar. The middle is too hard to walk for me. I’m fully LHP now and couldn’t be happier or more free.


Fuego, there are no truly frightening experiences applying magic as spirits will always reflect ourselves. So if you go into a ritual confident and take control of the proceedings then spirits no matter who they are will seem to follow. If however you are scared then the spirits (depending on what type) will tend to take advantage.

We never truly know ourselves as life is a journey of constant learning and a continuation of trying to evolve the human spirit.

Frustrations occurs by thinking we are not getting anywhere with our efforts. Remember, we always get somewhere even if this highlights problems or barriers. We simply need to learn and try again, which is always progress. It only becomes a failure when we keep doing the same things and expect different results.

Doubts only happen out of a lack of understanding for your abilities. You must realise you can do anything and know that spirits love to get involved with your requests. BELIEF is the strength of the magi.

It’s been that long since my first results I’ve forgot. However, I’ve obtained money and possessions, had more woman than I care to remember as I don’t wish to be married > (you know, the usual). I can achieve anything I set my mind to with magic as I have total belief in its mechanics but without doubt, the most precious thing magic has given me is knowledge my friend.

Grey as you call it is non- existent. You seem to be unsure of yourself at this moment, or not confident with your practices. Once you gain more belief in magic a path will open up for you, which can only ever be the left hand path. Black Magic is a way of life that pursues self happiness, the power to take control of your own life by regaining freedom and becoming an individual. We don’t believe in God, simply because we are the God in our world and therefore control our own lives, not some fictitious deity that doesn’t even help the goody-two-shoes mob. We are always pleasing our own egos; even helping others gives us a sense of self gratification. The truth is, all magic is black magic once you under this basic concept.

What exercises on the Grey Path should be done by grade or category??

The white magician believes in a superior being he looks up to that created the world and is therefore perfect, so he abstains from practicing magic on himself and just helps others instead. Helping others is a great part of magic but the magician must initially take care of himself. You really could never help others until you’re in a strong position yourself. Showing no care for yourself at the expense of others goes against the survivalistic nature of a human, which makes no sense at all unless you’re a complete doormat with no self respect. The love and light brigade ‘who do practice magic on themselves’, are therefore hypocrites and there’s many of them down the right hand path, this Fuego should tell you which path to follow > welcome to Black Magic my friend


What were your most frightening experiences in your life of doing Magick?

Seeing the Physical manifestation of Hecate

How long did it take you to truly know yourself?

I think learning is constant
I thought it was recapture tactics team training after infantry school untill I got shot at in the middle east

I thought it was getting shot at in the middle east untill I had my brother, captain, and first sergeant suicide within days of each other and then held my dying cousin as he bled out to a headshot

I thought it was holding my dying cousin untill I truly rediscovered myself and valued living again, like actually deciding and actually wanting to live an extatic passion filled life to its fullest after the darkest pits of hell.
So I guess it’s always a constant discovery and we never truly know ourselves untill we decide we do.

How did you deal with frustrations in Magick (including results)?
Cycles of giving up then being inspired by unexplainable results and wanting to jump back in at the slightest chance I could do it again.

How did you move past your doubts and frustrations rather than just moving forward like an ox?
Either self discovery or acceptance to reverse it or just time

What were your first couple real authentic results (as much as you’re willing to share of course)
Surviving life, quitting smoking, not killing myself and a $20,000 spell

How did you successfully become a grey magician (one of my many paths in the past), without either ending up a LHP or RHP solid devotee?
But seeing the flaws in being solely good and or soley evil and choosing instead to accept both in the world and myself

Why did you choose the RHP or LHP, or in between (like me)?
Balance and a controlled chaos that propells me forward like the positivity and good feelings of being addicted to exercise.
Controlling and implementing a healthy chaos is the key to a fulfilled life.
Peace is a nasty lazy decadent decay into oblivion and to much chaos is disease, illness and death.


I guess as a token answer I’d say anything dealing heavily with the death current. Some people will say there are demons, Goetic or otherwise, who will fuck you up badly if you don’t approach them the right way. I don’t really give much consideration to warnings like that.

In my case the most physically damaging was being kinda flippant/cavalier about my intent to overcome substance abuse. When I’ve done this in the past I’ve always very quickly manifested a path toward the outcome, but it’ll be something that is quite literally physically dangerous. Like I asked the djinn for help once with alcohol abuse and I ended up getting so drunk that I was hungover to the point of incapacity for the better part of 3 days and swore off alcohol (didn’t last and honestly it would probably result in death or hospitalisation if I went cold turkey).

Another time I used the Law to try and free myself from other substances, and what ended up happening (within about 10 days) was my supply was cut off via circumstance and I had to severely ration two (prescription) drugs down to like 1/5 the amount my body was used to, which, again, incapacitated me for about three weeks. Like I could barely walk, I was awake for 36 hours at a time, in constant discomfort. Luckily I had friends to support me with healing rituals, and it did result in me deciding to actually wean off everything, but in a controlled way and not one that could kill me.

The most mentally damaging was actually the best thing that ever happened to me on this path. I touched the divine and went through a dark night of the soul that involved a period of depression, self-imposed isolation, suicidal ideation, and feeling like I was completely unravelling mentally upon the realisation that reality isn’t real. But it hugely accelerated my understanding of the mechanics of magic and cut my manifestation time down to almost nothing. Like, same-day results in some cases.

I think safe work can be done in any system, but it relies on the thoughtfulness and intent of the operator. You can work “safely” even in “dangerous” currents if you put forethought into what you’re trying to achieve, and build towards outcomes.


In hindsight:
Applying healing magick to someone else under pressure and self-blame. Not thinking this through made me resort to something REALLY stupid and dangerous and damaged my physical body in a way that could have ended much different. Back then I didn’t realise the risk I was dealing with for myself but the amount of stupidity I’ve displayed is actually really frightening.

One year. Two years. Three years. Four…

Not at all. I go straight back to the drawing board if something doesn’t work out the way it should have. Its not frustrating to me, its experimental.

Same thing. The element of experimenting on something until it shows results is inspiring to me and maybe even a bit meditative.

Getting two people removed out of my way in a matter of one week or so. I was hooked after that.

I am willing to apply what gets the job done. It doesn’t make sense to me to commit myself to only one side of the fence.