Orientation experiments anyone?

Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever worked with a demon to temporarily or permanently change the sexual orientation of yourself or another person? I thought of this while I was pondering about what may or may not interfere with spellwork…

Like say a straight guy uses a lust/love spell on a lesbian (or a girl using it on a gay guy… or just for shits and giggles, a gay girl using it on gay guy and vice versa)

Would these things flat out not work, or would it just tamper heavily on the person’s established spectrum?

Spontaneous changes in sexual orientation have been known to occur in stroke victims, and I think that anything the body can do naturally can be triggered/arranged by “supernatural” means.

Anyone can be conditioned to respond to anything, of course, and conditioning can be done via occult methods.

For my money, you’re more likely to pull something like this off by targeting genetics/identity/conditioning than by flinging love/sex spells at people whose type you are not. Aside from “not being their type,” you have who knows how many little issues like pheromones, experiential conditioning, the fact that one gender’s body is quite different from another, social factors (as I’ve said many, many times - stigmatization and mockery of homosexuality is about traumatizing heterosexual males. “Gays” are just a sufficiently small minority that they are considered allowable casualties. But fear conditioning around orientation issues is ALWAYS worse than you think it is for EVERYBODY, no matter what they consciously think about themselves.), etc, etc.

A lot of experimentation’s been done with simple hypnosis with consistently impressive results - but again, you’re conditioning memory, response, identity, associations, etc. Of course, you either need a willing test subject (that damn fear issue again!) or you need to be an A-grade hypnotist. We now know that our DNA is extremely dynamic and there are lots of switches that can be thrown on and off depending on environment and conditioning.

I’ve been keenly interested in this for a while, simply because it seemed to me that changeability of sexual orientation is one of the very best… experiential “tells” for the fictional nature of the samsaric self. In other words, being able to change something society insists is an innate, hard-wired trait that is supposed to be fundamentally definitive of who/what you are would be a sufficiently but not TOO terribly traumatic way of helping a younger magician, for example, understand experientially that “who they are” is a fictional character in video game, and that this character is fully hackable.

Of course, hacking OTHER PEOPLE gets you to understand the even more important and most taboo lesson - the lesson at the heart of the building occult revolution - that YOUR video game is totally separate from everyone else’s, and you are the only character with free will and self-determination.

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No. You can never really change a person’s sexuality. You can drive them crazy through the natural human feeling of obsession, but it’s not the same thing.

There’s an older thread about this here where a lot of people offered various views: http://becomealivinggod.com/forum/general-discussion/is-it-possible-to-make-someone-gay-through-magick/

I’m not sure where I stand on it, my experiences lean me towards agreeing with Sultitan_Itan but to attain that state myself I’ve had to work fairly hard on staying in the right mind-set, usually I’m more in “thing in a world of things” mode.

I’m really happy with my own sexual preferences & orientation, and can’t see any benefit in changing them, though Belial offered to do that last year (me and my partner are into BDSM and he didn’t approve), so he might be a good spirit to ask about this since he convinced me he would be able to change both me and my partner.

I think a serious interest in BDSM is as innate as preferring one gender over another, and Belial started to show me how he could alter this, but we asked him to kindly keep his opinions on that matter to himself, although he did make some interesting points about how a relationship based on power-exchange could be problematic in the higher reaches of magick.

Anyway I think he’s the go-to spirit on this, he convinced both of us he had the know-how to make major changes, but I don’t want to go into more detail because it’s pretty personal stuff and not fair on my partner.

(As a side-note, it was quite bizarre to be told off for being too kinky by a demon, and even more bizarre when I discussed it with the Archangel Raphael, and he said he thought it was psychologically healthy for us both to act out in this way - not what one would expect, to put it mildly…)

huh… funny you mention Belial and I have been thinking about him a lot lately… even though I never evoked him fully before… and I mean… A looottt… I always wanted to see if it could be done on myself so I can confirm 100% the “willing subject” isn’t just faking it to make me feel like i accomplished something… But given that I already prefer both, the only thing I can see is conducting it to make myself asexual… which… I’m not going to do…

You could ask him to turn you into a furry? :slight_smile:

Although he probably wouldn’t approve…!

LOL!!! x3 I’ll leave the poor little foxies alone lmfao

I think it is possible, but difficult. You would have to rewire the entire personality complex of the individual consciousness. There is plenty of research on how brain trauma can cause permanent changes to a personality. The person’s taste in food changes, preferred activities change, even deeply ingrained habits disappear and new ones take their place. If sexual preference is a function of the personality, then you could conceivably make the change. One thing to keep in mind, though, is the egoistic personality is what makes a person an individual, so if you change an aspect of that personality because you want to have sex with them, the personality that may result will not be the same personality you were attracted to in the first place.

It could be a fun experiment though :slight_smile:

Belial is infamous for attempting to twiddle with people’s sexual orientations. I’ve spoken with several people about this. He sees orientation purely as a strategic choice and you have to give him a very firm “No,” if you want to keep things in tact. Whether he’d be willing to alter someone ELSE for non-strategic purposes is rather a different question, though.

Here’s where my thoughts currently are on “identity.” I believe we are all “expressions” of our Godselves. We flow from the God-self like a character flows from the mind of a novelist. Everything we are is an expression of that higher thing - all of our drives, so-called personality, etc. When we repress or fixate on certain of these expressions, typically the ones society finds particularly desirable or monstrous, they tend to be perverted into inverse and often self-sabotaging expressions.

There’s nothing we can do or be that isn’t an expression of that God-self, and the same fundamental drives and attributes will come through no matter what. These expressions are MUCH finer than linguistically constructed concepts of any kind. So “Pure Expression” BDSM in Person A and “Perversion” BDSM in Person B could look virtually identical to an outside observer, but there’s an essential difference in that Person A’s life is enriched and made healthier by the activity and Person B’s life is obstructed and harmed by it. We all know people who giddily sail through extreme depravity of every kind their whole lives and only seem to get healthier and happier for it, and we all know people who lightly experimented with something mildly taboo in high school and were so traumatized by the experience that it haunted them for years, or even caused permanent damage. It’s not what you are or what you do that seems to matter as much as what you’re expressing and how unadulterated that expression is.

Keep in mind that all of us are trained from infancy to be more petrified of expressing ourselves without filters and forethought than anything else. I’ve been reading lately on the vast differences between how children are raised in modern society and the way they’re treated in more open. tribal groups and it’s pretty fascinating. We’ve known how to raise healthy people for decades now - tons of research has been done - and we deliberately do the opposite and clog the world with self-hating weaklings. This kind of preciousness about “sexual identity” would not exist outside an authoritarian control structure.

This is curious to me, I’ve experienced none of this, albeit heavy work with Belial; although I’ve heard it mentioned on this forum, a few times now.

Perhaps Belial, as ‘He without Master’, simply aids in unleashing internal propensity towards sexual impulse that would have otherwise been repressed do to societal boundaries.

For myself; do to work, obstacles, challenges, etc…(many overcomed thanks to Belial’s aid), I’ve actually become less sexual, perhaps almost asexual, focused intently on life’s work, although in my past I’ve been known to pull quite a few hotties. (cough)

This may simply be a dormant factor that is simply ‘unleashed’ by Belial, as he sees no boundary, and pushes you to perform your deepest, darkest, secret desires.

In my view, he aid’s in unleashing the Godself, the Masterless Spirit, pure will, thus whatever he pushes you towards unleashing, was likely dormant all along.

I wonder if there is a way, I’m gay and I really hate this shit and it was all thanks to a witchcraft with Pomba Gira the mother of my father did many years ago, it was a huge witchcraft work and I guess it took years building power to achieve it’s goal, I was literally born with this paid entity(IIRC, Maria Padilha Queen of Hell) so she could work to destroy my life since day 1, I was straight during my late childhood(8 up to 11 years that I can recall) then I suddenly changed after this gay dude friend of an aunt of mine was glaring me with sexual desire(wtf), it’s like his homosexuality was transfered to me, he was probably a pedofile too, who knows?

About the spirit nature:

Pomba Giras and Exus are popular left-hand spirits here in Brazil, women resort a lot to them for biding spells to bind men, there are a lot of spells work with them so I gay man can have sex with straight men but of course it’s only sex and after the spell power is done, it is done, the guy will still be straight at the end of the day, I dunno if you can change permanentely the sexuality of a full grow adult man but considering my life history I would definitely say that you can induce a children to become permanentely gay/lesbian later in life when they reach purberty if you place a spell or pay an evil spirit to do it for you when they’re still young and developing.

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I’m sorry, it’s done, thanks.