This split is due to the difference between Solomonic methods, such as those taught by the Golden Dawn using Kabbalistic methods, and modern magick such that that practiced by E.A.Koetting.
Modern ceremonial magick is still influenced by Solomonic ideas but the circle becomes not a protection, but a way to put the focus on you the practitioner so you’re easier to communicate with.
A third concept is that found in the religion of Demonolatry, which reveres the entities and even considers protective circles to be “offensive”.
In the end, it’s worth trying things in all ways and finding out what works best for you. Everyone is different with different energy, backgrounds and worldviews, and we can’t always predict how the energetic flows will play out, so, what works for one doesn’t work for all. There is no “correct way”, there is only what works for others, and no shortcuts: you have to find out what works for you by doing it.
I would suggest reading all you can about a spirit before evoking them. Even better, I would suggest reading material written by magicians who have been (truthfully) successful at physical evocation.
Personally, for physical evocation, I use a circle. I’ve seen what these beings can do once brought physically into our world. Just use caution.
I’ve never read anything claiming that spirits were innately destructive within any “goetic” literature. Get information from better sources, and not from hearsay. If you learn from E.A. Koetting, then you’ll integrate with and take on Koetting’s perspectives, and if you learn from other members of the occult communities, then you’ll find out how diversifying it becomes when you’re more open-minded.
I like to gather as many points of view as possible so that I’m not moving into a serious operation like evocation with a polarized and skewed ideology.
I don’t have any idea what I am trying to perform but let me give you a clue I am trying to evoke a spirit a Goetic spirit using summoning chant provided by vk jehannum?
Draw that sigil
Light candle and incense
Meditate and gaze on the sigil, and once you are ready. Chant the chants provided by vk.
Then once u feel presence ask your request. if you still dont feel. Try after vk chants, to chant the spirits ENN.
Then if you felt the presence, and made ur requests. Thank the spirit and give the license to depart.
After that, go take a shower or cook. just to get your mind of the ritual and go back to the mundane (mentally).
if you look into my topics, you will find an invocation guide that shows a little more in depth process. Also, feel free to check out my journal. It might have some information that helps.
Well, it seems like you are very new to magic, so i doubt your senses are open yet. However, you can use the smoke of the incense to scry to see the spirit. Sometimes, if your third eye is slightly open, you may get vision in your minds eye of the spirit. Do not worry their not scare. The worst you can see is a skull. Unless they are intentionally trying to make u scared.
So please check out my journal and if you have any questions post them in the link below. Note: Do not hesitate to ask me anything and at any time. I am always happy to help.
Yes I’m novice to magick and I’m very glad I found your answer very informative in accordance to my own path as a beginner thank you for making a thread dedicated to beginner’s like me words are not enough to say thank you to you maybe I should post my question on that thread huge thanks from the bottom of my heart
I’ve been at this 45 years and have never used “hearsay” as a source. I’m personally in touch with many Goetic magicians, and of those who actually use the grimoire, I’m fairly sure every single one of them will tell you working without a circle to physical manifestation is foolish.
I completely agree with @Mornaug on this. You’re a god-damned fool if you think that Goetic spirits don’t have a darkside or are incapable of causing madness, disease, and death. Many many Magicians have been smote mad or committed suicide or had other terrible things happen to them by not taking basic safety measures into consideration.
@veritas03 that’s not hearsay that’s real talk man .
I personally have a very friendly and cordial relationship with the 72 but I recognize that they are not cute, sweet, cuddly stuffed animals. They’re infernal spirits. I treat them with the respect they deserve and part of that is always, always protecting myself.
Of course they can be dangerous. But that doesn’t mean they’re out to get you.
I evoke mostly without precautions. I trust myself and the spirits enough to not be afraid of them during evocation. My first ritual, I put out some salt (I was new and it seemed like fun and also like at least a stand-in for protection. I made a circle around myself with rocks—no they were not touching it was just fun—) but I was lightly chastised for it by the spirit.
If you think you need a circle to evoke, you’re better off not doing evocation is my honest view. If you think your circle can’t be broken, that’s a shame because especially as a new practitioner it can be.
I say, grab a couple candles sit down, or stand, turn out the lights and say the enn. It works for me it’s worked for others. I get great results, I’ve gotten great results, and I don’t have issues. I like incense and pretty stones and knives and other ritual tools, but if you’re afraid of a spirit, best not to call it.
It’s like the people who are scared, evoke anyway, and never touch magick again because they were terrified. Either do it with courage and because you want to, or don’t. But don’t call a spirit more powerful than yourself (or that you perceive as more powerful) in fear.
Please understand that what us older magicians are trying to get across to folks here is not based on fear, but experience. Big difference.
Unless you’ve physically SEEN and directly spoken to a spirit who appeared in the triangle, unless you’ve heard the thunderous explosions that often come with the ripping opening of the portal, unless you’ve experienced the fact that you need more than a single banishing to get rid of them, etc. (and I don’t mean in your imagination), then you still don’t understand the types of forces you’re dealing with. It is their very beings that are of a chaotic nature, and can be extremely dangerous to the untrained (or to those unwilling to admit they’re untrained).
Again, this is not about fear, but about common sense. These are INFERNAL SPIRITS. No, they’re not usually “out to get you,” but the negative polarity of magic, the very real possibility of annihilation that’s part and parcel of infernal magick (which can be avoided) is a simple consequence of successful evocation to physical manifestation. I’ve personally lost two fellow magicians over the years who WERE successful at it, but who didn’t recognize the totality of the Art.
Many folks here seem to consider imagination and scrying to be the same as evocation. It is not. It may work for the purposes that most people here seem to have, but if you’re talking evocation to physical manifestation, I have yet to meet more than two or three here who have actually accomplished it.
I disagree in hindsight about working to materialization without a magick circle being “foolish”. At some point in every person’s evocational path, the demons will be present outside of their circles.
Some prefer traditional methodologies, and some prefer not to bother with them.
If you can’t trust your guardians, and you can’t trust that you have yourself in safety once the ritual is over, then you cannot trust that demon for too very long.
Straight up right on if you believe the circle protects against demonic powers, but I feel that it’s inadequate in doing so.
It’s a psychological barrier. It says to the magician that he or she doesn’t have to control or manipulate the entire universe, or the entire room. They simply have to control what’s happening to the markers and the boundaries, and what goes down inside them and the immediately surrounding areas.
A magician may learn to control what happens without those markers and set up an aura field much like the circle trains the psychic warrior to do.
This is what I mean. You don’t seem to understand what the circle is. It’s not the circle that protects one. It’s the magician. However, the circle is an outward manifestation of the ability of the magician to set boundaries, which appears on the astral as a very physical boundary. I’ve seen it work myself, so I have no doubt as to its efficacy.
But we all learn by doing. Knowledge comes with experience. I wish you well.
I dont claim that circles don’t work, and in fact I’ve gotten results by using some of the circles on the BALG website, because they have been charged and sigilized, if you will, for the tasks which they’ve been intended to be useful for.
I really hope you didn’t. You have no idea what my experience is aside from maybe what I post. I can’t believe you’re telling me I’m confusing “imagination” with “scrying” and “evocation.” Maybe realize not all of us post everything we’ve ever done before replying like this to me.
I advised OP not to call a spirit they’re afraid of. No where did I say anything about my own emotions regarding magick of any kind.
“Meet” is a relative term. All you’re doing is raising yourself on a pedestal and being willfully ignorant of the fact that there are a great many people you’ve not met. Also, your sample size (the people you know) is why too small for this to have any logical connection to how many magicians there are that are capable of what you’re talking about.
