Demon gives the opposite of what you ask so what's the point?

Well we are all beginning one time & if your saying we are beginning & what should we expect, then you are basically confirming what I said in the post isnt it?

You also stated demons are powerful but for whatever reasons, sometimes they cant do it. So that was my point, demons are limited in what they can do. But no where on this forum or on google anybody tells the truth, only stats that demon are powerful to help you. Its like click & bait sometimes i feel. Seeing that makes a person get into this but later realize “for whatever reasons they cant, they have their limits”.

But yes you are correct in one thing, its the person strong will not desperation. But at some point we are all beginning who are desperate or seeking help to do whatever is necessary…even if it means to beg. Perhaps you are stronger then others so for you, it never went the opposite but you also said some rituals are unsuccessful so it doesnt work everytime. To offer eternal hell, your basically rolling the dice to see if it works? Hum…

But I do thank you for your insight as you did make some good points so we beginning appreciate that. I think oneself can judge by their own results/outcome to determine if basically what i said makes all sense.

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This is a Christian belief, and does not apply if you do not follow that particular religion. I’m not a Christian, and so I have no fear of some mythical land of fire and torment that doesn’t exist.

This is circular logic. I was stating that, as a beginner, you most likely had Hollywood expectations in your head as to what demons are capable of. Most people are like that when they first start practicing magick. They think all they have to do is say a few weird words, and poof! a demon will appear in a cloud of smoke to grant their every desire at the cost of their soul because all they know is based on movies and books. Unfortunately, real magick generally does not work that way.

Yes, people exaggerate, especially if they’re trying to sell something. However, magick is just like anything else. People will always pump up their own particular beliefs, especially if they are of a religious bent. Everyone’s particular demon or god is the “true” ruler of the universe and can do anything, etc.

You are missing one crucial point, though. Sometimes our world is simply immovable, regardless of the miraculous things demons, and other spirits are capable of. Once a situation has reached a certain level of momentum, it is almost impossible to change its course. That is why it is always easier to manipulate things at the beginning of an event, than it is when they have a full head of steam.

For example, in his book Works of Darkness, EA Koetting tells a story of one of his first evocations of King Paimon. He was at risk of losing his job, so he asked the king to intercede on his behalf. The king warned him that it might already be too late, but EA asked him to do what he could anyway. EA did wind up losing his job, and when he called up King Paimon and demanded to know why, the King told him, “I knew it was too late.” What the king did do, for EA, however, was get him a bigger final paycheque than he should have received.

The point being, of course, is that sometimes, once a decision is made, it isn’t always changeable.

I always recommend a divination if you want to know why your spells failed. If you’re interested, there are a couple of threads currently open where members are offering free readings. Ask for one on why your rituals didn’t work, then you can adjust, and try again.


Um it wasn’t some hollywood thinking here. I notice when it doesnt work from other users, you always use that Hollywood excuse. You dont know if me or anybody else took it seriously. Also I didn’t mention but when I said many times Moderator - I was actually taking about you, username “DarkestKnight”.

I do appreciate the time you used to reply to us but I have read so my threads where you give one answer & totally different answer to different threads. No mean disrespect but when you give two different answers to the same category, your also doing your part in confusing many users here.

However, most of your insights are great information to have. But you shouldnt just cast off all members thinking this is hollywood, ask a wish and granted. There are beginners who really take it seriously (like me). Your insight of “reach certain level of momentum” was actually great info. So as I said some info are great but some info are always contradicting. One example out of many: You posting different threads saying circle is required when evocation & other threads, circle you shouldn’t do. They are same category, demon evocations.

Perhaps its user error fault or perhaps demons just dont answer to certain people or perhaps there are limits on what Demons can really fully do. Like I mention, everything is incomplete info so how are we beginners suppose to know when incomplete or inaccurate info are mention, even on this forum.
You said "Once a situation has reached a certain level of momentum, it is almost impossible to change its course. That is why it is always easier to manipulate things at the beginning of an event, than it is when they have a full head of steam."

Thanks for letting us know finally as there is no where on this thread anybody mentions that. Anyways, I do really appreciate your info but please stop thinking all beginners dont take it seriously and just think like hollywood version as that’s sort of an insult, especially when I took 2 weeks to fully dedicate & also learn so much. However, because of your replies, it does really help us beginners to how to do it successfully next time or knowing the correct way so you do help more so much appreciation :slight_smile:

I’ve been a member of this forum since 2013 so it’s natural that my methods of evocation have evolved over the years. Growth is part of the process. However, as far as I can remember, I have never once said you shouldn’t use a circle when evoking. In fact, I’m a fan of using circles, but there is a lot of misinformation spread about them and how to use them properly.

It’s actually pretty common thinking for beginners, and we see it here all the time. Hell, I was guilty of it myself way back when I first started, so it’s not an “excuse,” it’s experience.

I’m not going to measure wands with you, but, I spent several years learning how to evoke properly, working my way through multiple systems, and developing the necessary skills, so two weeks to me is barely long enough to get your feet wet. You haven’t even scratched the surface of development yet, so I’d appreciate it if you didn’t try to call me out about “taking it seriously.”


Oh no I wasn’t trying to call you out. Yes two weeks is nothing for me & I’m sure you spent years learning so you know more. Yes this is all an experience someone has to go through. And as I mention, you actually provided very helpful insight to me & other users so your actually helping more out so we thank you.

So please dont mis-understand my statement & please keep helping us out as we need experience people like you to help us guide through this hard journey. And you also take the time to respond to most of our questions so we are grateful to you.

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I don’t see what’s so complicated. A circle is useful for evocation just to designate what space is yours and what space is the spirits…and it can help to mentally put you in the headspace of performing an evocation. But its not a requirement to summon a spirit. The problem is that you really are too new to all this to really know that…and from what I’ve read here you seem to treat magick like a chemist or engineer. Magick is not an exact science where if you add X and Y together you get Z 100% of the time. Just because spirits don’t always succeed with a particular request…by no means does this mean that they aren’t powerful. That would be like saying because Tiger Woods missed a hole, he’s not an excellent golfer. They usually do pull it off, as long as you’ve done things right…and that is what matters.

I would suggest, since you seem to have a lot of doubts about the ability of demons/spirits to bring excellent results…that you read this thread I made some time ago, cataloging the success stories of users on here over there years, so you can get a better idea of what spirits and magick in general is capable of


Oh wow, that thread has some great info. Thank you & I will look through it. And yes, i do know I am new so I’m not trying to disrespect anyone & the demon practice. I really do appreciate you guys providing more knowledge to us beginners so we can learn more. Thank you so much!

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Come on man :joy: many things don’t even manifest that quick.

Its like you just started going to gym, you don’t even know how to properly curl, yet expect to get shredded.


I’ve had demons “help” me in this regard. But it’s an overly simplistic view to take.

For example:

  • I asked Sallos and Dantalion for a relationship with a specific person (SP). My request was granted within 2 weeks. That is a very quick turnaround by any practitioner’s measure. The relationship lasted maybe like 6 weeks total. It didn’t change SP’s behaviour or attitude toward me at all. So I got my result (a relationship) but it was not fulfilling by any means.

  • I asked Sallos to bring me the perfect partner and gave him a very detailed list of requirements. He delivered in TWO days. Turns out I forgot to include one very specific requirement (“lives in same city as me”). So, got the person I asked for… who lived 3,000km away and was only temporarily in my city. Later he told me he had no interest in a long-distance relationship. :woman_shrugging:

(Edit: I have had it used on me as well, no demons involved, just the other person’s Will. Timeline was somewhere around 4-5 weeks. It gradually built to the point where I spent around 10 days actively obsessing about someone, as in, thinking about them and only them for about 80% of my waking hours. I resisted as long as I could but ultimately gave in. But it wasn’t something against my own Will either. Some people might feel an extremely strong pull, but ignore it. I didn’t. Long story short: It is not a useless endeavour. It is simply that most people usually perform “get me my ex back/give me my crush” rituals from either a needy, desperate, time-limited perspective, and/or out of a sense of pride/rejection, or a mix of both.)

Idk, some people do have great results that work out well for them. If you write them off entirely you’re seeding that thought into your own mind and creating a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I’m sure you are aware, but there more entities out there than demons. Especially just the traditional Goetic/72 demons of Solomon.

That is a personal belief and completely unverifiable. But if you wish to believe it, sure. The whole “selling your soul to the devil” thing is… not really a thing, and it’s a very Judeo-Christian-Islamic belief to have (or a very Hollywood magic view to have). Perhaps you should think about fully throwing those beliefs away before you approach working with demons ago.


thanks for the great insight. Wow everything was so fast for you, all within 2 weeks & two days. Yes what you asked might come but I do understand sometimes it doesnt end well. Thanks for your honestly.

  1. EA has an excellent video on this (if it can be found). Basically it talks about working on self love so you don’t believe taking away someone else’s free will is the only way you can have love. As your self love increases you will be less reliant on external validation and more confident which will lead to more love. Also, when you work on yourself the right person 4 u will come…obviously he said it way better. It was in a video on Asmoday…

  2. Is it possible that your subconscious is getting in the way? You manifest reality so…if you’re getting the opposite of what you want, look at that & dissect it. Is there a part of you that doesn’t feel deserving? Or is there a part of you that doesn’t want it? The only area in my life where I keep getting the opposite of what I want is when it comes to weight loss…no matter who I pray to, how much I work out or what pills I take…I keep gaining! I even called EA directly…& still I gain weight :sob: :sob: :sob:
    But I went to a therapist & he started asking, “what is the weight doing for you? What purpose does it serve? You are the one keeping yourself fat…the trick is figuring out why.” When I started to think of it…I realized, everytime I lose a little weight I feel happy but when I start getting a lot of attention, it makes me really uncomfortable. So, me and my therapist are working on the fear and looking at where it stems from and why…because I was literally self sabotaging w/out realizing it. Maybe that’s the problem. Are you sabotaging your magick?

  3. As for the circle. Again, you manifest reality. If there is fear in you it might be better to have a circle for protection. Also, as a beginner it’s probably a generally good idea because it is a visual representation of safety. Sometimes it can get real spooky and you need a little reminder that you’re safe and they can’t get you. However, as you said, a lot of powerful Magicians have stated or written that either the circle is unnecessary because they can essentially protect themselves (mental circles or lack of fear or whatever) or its unnecessary because the demon is a part of your subconscious…I’ve read many reasons & you should probably go w/ what feels good for you. For me, I learned mediumship b4 magick & they teach you to raise your frequency so that you emit a bright white light & that will protect you because you will only resonate w/ beings of a higher frequency. Might sound silly but if I get scared, filling my room w/ light neutralizes any negative feelings inside me. Just do what works. It’s probably a good idea to have a mentor.

  4. If you believe what you are doing is “bad” & you’re risking an eternity in hell…that may be why it’s not working. I can’t speak 4 everyone but I think If you talk to more people (like me) who don’t have any reservations about what they are doing, you will see some success. If you can’t get over your reservations…maybe study King Solomon (the wisest man that ever lived). When I 1st discovered the Left Hand Path, I prayed to my guides and asked “why I stumbled on this. What am I supposed to do w/ this information? Why was it revealed to me when I wasn’t looking?” My guides reminded me, years ago, I prayed to be like Solomon. I prayed for wisdom. My guides pointed out, to be whole, a man must be able to use both his right and left hands… & if I want to be wise, I must master both my right & left hands - just like King Solomon. I’m not a proponent of his methods but I like studying him because he is the example of wisdom & he worked w/ any entity he needed.

If you are of the religious mindset and you fear being cast into hell - don’t worry - because you will always have a choice. Lucifer made a choice. God could have destroyed him, instead he allowed him to follow his desires and gave him the world (according to the Christian bible). Also, the Bible says repeatedly that you can always change your mind, repent, and go with God. So, there is no reason to be afraid, explore and find out what works 4 you. In the end, if this isn’t the path you want to take, then you can go back. That’s literally the point of free will. You can try on all the hats & leave with the one you like best :sunglasses:

  1. If the demons don’t work for you, you might consider creating a servitor…

Sorry for the diatribe. I hope it helps


Omg your funny on the weight gain. I cant even gain weight if I eat all I wanted. I only keep losing weight, especially these 3 weeks I been stressed. No I have no reservation about Christian/things as I gave that up long time ago lol.

Thank you, your post is helpful as I read through it twice. I just cant stop laughing about the weight gain since we are opposite. Please feel free to give me some of your weight as man…I cant put on any weight.

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I really wish I could lol

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Do you think that it could be the person making the request that is the problem? Perhaps they didn’t really understand what they were asking for…

Like when a toddler says “let me do it myself!” So you grant that wish & then they make a mess of things because they weren’t ready for what they thought they wanted. If you allow it - things get messy but they learn. If you don’t allow it, they get mad at you because you won’t give them what they want because they are not mature enough to understand that you are doing what is in their best interest.

Maybe when things get messy, its because we weren’t ready for what we thought we wanted

Just a thought…

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Out of curiosity, did you act this same way to Santa Muerte? Didn’t you say it was a bad relationship in your intro?


Have you consider your own inner demons at work? I find that subconscious resistance can impact the magick work you do. Just my two cents.

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On the basis of your work with Santa Muerte and of EA’s “Book of Azazel”, try dedicating yourself to a God of any religion or to a spirit.
It can very well be time consuming to “experiment with everyone” so scroll the sigils of Lucifer, Azazel, Belial etc, while actually taking some moments to read about each entity, feel for possible affinity and whether the sigil seems to call you.
Then come up with ideas for the words of a pact or simply contact daily that spirit, both for evocation training (or invoke him/her into you) and channeling of information. Continue to study and do other types of training, while giving yourself to the Spirit, to the point of not caring for results: that’s the point when “miracle happens”.

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The "demons that dont give you what you ask for, are probably evil angels. I curse them to the lake of fire

I’ve been searching for that thread but I can’t seem to find it. I want to know what changes they did to manage to make it work.

If anybody can share the link, I’d really appreciate it!

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