Angels are in fact the ones that bring danger, not demons!

Regarding the OP, who by the way has acknowledged on another thread that we don’t need to be battered with posts like this: I’d go one step further than Asbjörn Torvol has above, and say, if you want to be dogmatic, be dogmatic – but know that you’re making a choice.

You have the power in that situation – I have to drop this in right around here:

There’s a good case to be made sometimes for subjective synthesis – synthesising, wilfully creating, immersion in a belief system, to work to the maximum with one specific current, type of entity, or whatever.

I’ve experienced this myself when I worked with Ahriman and the influence was profound, I couldn’t stomach certain kinds of foods that were linked to Ahura Mazda, and I got great, life-changing results because of that, because I threw myself in 100% and didn’t try to “cheat” or look for loopholes.

And prior to that, in my RHP era, I threw myself 100% into that to the apex point of merger, which is what has become the foundation of my work with magick, and again I didn’t cheat, maybe eat a tuna sandwich, bet on a horse race, whatever, because I was totally dedicated at that time to getting the goal and I didn’t see any value in distractions.

Even on here, when I coach people through the core shamanic system, one of the biggest problems comes when people try to work in bits of other systems before they’ve even begun, which is understandable, and that system will rapidly adapt to more or less anything you want to syncretise it with – but at first, the only way to be certain of making the interface this provides is to do it exactly as written, and as taught to probably tens of thousands of people over the years.

If you’re making beef stew, make beef stew – don’t add sprinkles, sushi, and a handful of Lego bricks because you didn’t want the group “non-food items” to feel left out. :slight_smile:

But when you get really good at beef stew, you might decide that adding some dried apricot, or bacon, or whatever is going to enhance your recipe, and that’s a decision made from mastery, from deep immersive knowledge of what makes a really good beef stew.

A lot of people criticise wiccans because they will choose a god, and a goddess, from pretty much any pantheon and attach whatever attributes and modern values they think are great to these spirits, and in my own experience, firsthand and personal, of changing reality in my own life and for others through magick, I get that – you CAN often work successfully, even on the same project, with spirits from different pantheons, paradigms, and whose lore and legends seem to clash, but ONLY if you’ve already come to know them tolerably well, to the extent you can ask questions and receive information accurately.

Other times, probably not so much – they may be in opposition for a reason, because everything other than the formless Source has qualities, meaning it IS one thing and therefore is NOT another, and by the time you get to entities like gods and demons, those details are going to be complex enough that you may get harmonic clashes.

Harmonic clashes? Every key on a piano is capable of creating truly beautiful and inspiring music, but you can’t just mash a bunch of them together at random and assume the outcome will be anything other than cacophany.

This is because discord (which, again, also has its place in music when used with full understanding of the effect, as a counterpoint or emphasis against harmony) arises when certain frequencies are struck together at the same time – as a general rule, any two or more directly adjacent white notes on a piano/keyboard should never be sounded unless you’re aiming for a dissonant effect by choice.

(There’s a full explanation of this in music, with examples, here.)

Sometimes opposing things work well – but if you’re undertaking a serious project, you need mastery of the individual elements, which in magick means personal experience of working with the spirits somewhat “by the book” to begin with before you’ll know when to do the equivalent of adding black pepper to strawberries, or a squeeze of lemon to chicken chow mien.

To go back to the OP, and what I posted further up this thread, the JoS system is a choice, a whole current and system that people do get results from, but it’s not the whole of the truth.

If you want to insist all your demons show up looking like Chris Hemsworth (and there’s certainly nothing wrong with looking like that! amirite, ladies?) then go for it, but you’re also going to limit their opportunity to show up looking like muscular ram-headed gods in armour, or strangely maternal dark green three-headed snake Queens (love to beloved Buné there!).

And those aspects have lessons, and usefulness, and can teach us different ways to work with these spirits that would never otherwise appear if we insist they show up in anthropomorphic drag.

So yeah, choice – that’s the difference between a magician, and a religionist – a religionist gives over power to absolutes, which then bind his or her actions and eventually even dictate the things he or she may think about, clamping down tighter and tighter on free will; but the magician chooses what absolutes to use, for the experience or for a purpose, and then, when to abandon them in pursuit of his or her personal agenda.

But they never have mastery in their own right.

That just means a lot of people replied, it’s an automatic thing the software does. :slight_smile:

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Love the koetting meme btw

I know, they did a whole little run of those, this one is my absolute fave:

His eyes are amazing that’s all I gotta say lol

That’s quotes everything though

I will approach, invoke, or evoke anything I see fit. Should something make it’s presence know to me spontaneously, then I won’t prevent it.

My default position is of showing respect. This goes for the living as well. I will respect priests and witches as a default starting position.

Respect is sometimes a tool used to get things from the living, but most of the time it’s genuine. Once I lose respect, all bets are off. Demon, Person, whatever. I reserve the right to judge, but won’t make sweeping generalizations about a class of entity. Judgement is earned.

Raphael’s light/current has been tremendously helpful. Bune and Marabas have been exceptionally good to me. (Oddly enough)

A particular entity of African origin thought me an important painful and frightening lesson, with no prior relationship with me at all. He could have killed me. Instead he gave me conditions on when I can contact him again.

An open mind is all that is required. Prejudices, dogma and brainwashed garbage can get you hurt.

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I don’t generally want to work with Catholic saints, because I don’t like what they believed in, nor the system that promotes their names and attributes. In a weird way that’s showing respect, by not attempting to basically exploit them when we’re on such different pages, so to speak.

I don’t see that as a bad thing, to be honest, we’re magicians, and “thou shalt not be selective” is just as dogmatic as “only evoke spirits with Z in their names” or whatever.

We always have the right to choose what we will and won’t allow into our lives, especially because connections to spirits can affect our lives in such profound ways. A person can always change their mind later if their experience and observation suggests they’re missing out - coming from the whole white-light background, I ruled out working with anything “demonic” for years.

Spirits (at least the ones we know about) seem to gain and benefit from being summoned to our world and everyone has the right to refuse to give this to a spirit whose general agenda they disagree with. We just have to remember that they’re not like us, and our sensitivities are not going to be shared in the same way, you only have to read any Greek, Roman, or Egyptian legends to see that people understood that very well in the past.

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How about we just stop associating morality and species? No matter what you are, individuality comes first and all can choose what they want to be. There are friendly angels and hostile angels. Friendly demons and hostile demons.

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It might sound insane but the Lucifer being thrown to earth from heaven is I think all brainwashed bible guilt fueled bullshit, in an attempt by catholic Church which worked push people away from our true creator and God,that’s my believe Lucifer is in astral so not thrown stuck on earth god that wiped out everyone everything for eating from tree of knowledge reason for great galactic war wiped out history gives merit to fact therom Angles are the arsholes and thus more dangerous judgemental it was Lucifer who wanted us to learn from the forbidden tree of knowledge! or its possible Lucifer wiped out the watchers who were miss treating his creation us who knows the,truth

Unlikely: humans (actually, all animals) use pattern recognition & heuristics as a basic survival tool, this is why we don’t have to test every flame we meet to see if it’s hot, or wonder whether every piece of clearly recognisable food is going to be edible, or have fun times seeing if jumping off this roof is safe when the others weren’t.

Pattern recognition keeps us alive by telling us that what was always dangerous before still is, and more usually, it enables us to deploy our brains in something more than toddler-like wonder and exploration of literally everything we happen across. :slight_smile:

Sometimes we may base these reactions on incorrect data, such as when someone finds ALL paranormal experience (awareness of, and contact with, non-physical forces) to be terrifying and traumatic because they believe it will be harmful, and that it’s unnatural, evil, and so on, whereas for most of us here, that’s called Sunday afternoon.

The data we’ve been raised with across most of the world has taught us that demons are evil AND also, we often have spiritual programming through “the Church” (or mosque) installed in us kind of like mental viruses, like a false and dangerous allergic response, to certain kinds of “dark” energies.

So, for many religious people saturated with the virus and deeply allergic, demons ARE dangerous - all beings that have a certain resonance create problems, because they attuned themselves so close to their false troll-god’s “light” that anything outside that is distressing.

A diver has to decompress when he comes up from great depths - he’s not stupid, wrong, in need of a lecture about “tolerance” or anything - he has a physical need to adjust slowly to a different density, and I firmly believe it’s the same with this, because the possession stories and BAD encounters some people have with demonic beings are widely reported, and yet most of us on here have no such problem - but, some demonolaters and JoS folks may have problems with angels, which is a similar kind of situation.

Unlike the diver, we can change our level through acts of will, and sometimes, energetic or spiritual initiations that transmute us either permanently or for short periods, so we can work with beings whose energy is far different to that of the default everyday life.

When I “became” the Angel of Lost Things, it was like mainlining a massive elation, and an opiate-like rush of total freedom from pain, concern, worry, you name it - but that was a state incompatible, over a long-term period, with living as a human being. Same thing when I entered a kind of psychopathic state of total loss of empathy and humanity working with Azi Dahaka, and the intense focus and laser-like mindset of other demonic forces - some people might have seized on either one of these, because both were liberating in their own way (if you dislike being who and what you are) but neither was baseline normal for me.

A person who places all their own power into the hands of some kind of “god of light” though is already going to be closer to that angelic state, for example, so would find it easier to sustain and retain their functioning, especially if they already sacrificed a lot of their free will in submission to the laws of their god. They’ve adjusted to that particular level of density.

I don’t think we can, or should, just throw centuries of human experience away - some people do genuinely have bad experiences with demons, others with angels. I think one viable answer is to drop all moralising and dogma about “shoulds” and “ought to’s” and discover why it happens, and what humans can do to become spiritually flexible enough to, one day, enter into angelic harmonics to work with the kinds of energy innate to the angelic state, and the next day, if we wish, retain that free will, fuck-everything mindset of laser sharp determination to achieve a willed goal I’ve found characterises (for me) the “demonic” mind.

Of course there are thousands, millions, of states of being in between or spanning both - the classical gods like Sekhmet or Zeus often have a darkness and lightness combined, and many religions had no such concept of polarised dark and light at all, and that’s what I believe is worth striving towards - being able to span the different states in the same moment.

But for now, most of us have been contaminated to some extent, like the diver FORCED down below the normal levels of pressure the human body meets - and some people need to decompress carefully and adjust their energy to need the needs of one evocation, or piece of work, or pathworking.

But I don’t think any human being, ever, woke up and said “Today, I’m going to ignore valid useful information and fuck myself up by being stupid” - everyone does what they do for reasons that make sense at the time, based on feedback and previous experience, because this is usually what works in every other way.

Finally, demons are not, to my mind and experience, “evil” beings - but they have for a long time now been worked with by humans who expected them to be, who routinely expected to have a dark and terrifying experience, and usually only called on the demons to perform selfish or harmful acts. That may have also affected the energy densities of demonic beings, since they seem in some cases to partially use the godlike creative power of the magician to manifest, especially when called within certain currents (methods and belief systems) such as the traditional Solomonic methods, which are all about calling forth low and dangerous spirits for the magician to master as a representative of his “god.”

I believe the modern methods of evocation E.A. teaches are the best way to get a “clean” and uncontaminated interface with the spirit, which will not bring additional problems with it, and also permit greater flexibility to work with beings traditionally considered at one end of another of the good-evil split.

This isn’t wishful thinking: the core shamanic method is similarly stripped of an emphasis on polarities of good or evil, and the kinds of bad reactions people meet when working with the concept of “demonic/angelic” seldom occur for people using that method.

But I don’t think people in the past were just stupid, or that those who have bad experiences with angels or demons are lying, they’re just a bit allergic, and that can be fixed.

JMO! :slight_smile:

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So you think there is no reason to challenge such misconceptions at all? Because they are so very justified?

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Wtf!? Did I miss something?

Lady_Eva is your IQ over 165 or are we reading a demon lol. I agree everything dogmatic from church is not to be believed in that centuries of genetic imprinting causes humans to have coded programed DNA to fear demons.

I am a big fan of epigenetics Dr Bruce Lipton I’ll find link put on here for everyone to read very interesting his studies show how memory from subconscious thought forms our environment turns on off certain DNA.

I think probably sometimes people have memories think past life when in fact just downloading an ancestors memory like the time I was burned on a stake! Further theory memorys can be sent on to family through astral plane

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His studies prove subconscious thought changes the physical plane!

If you scroll down into subconscious part of his research read whole page he shows subconscious thoughts change by memory environment and how tap into it fix to me this is tree of life Lucifer wanted us to learn and grow

dogmatic religions and medical companies are the same as Gods ANGELS threatening to burn Lilith if she didn’t lay with Adam how fucked twisted are those Angels we have been taught for centuries by Catholics as good whilst they are not in my opinion.

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Ehhhh… I have my doubts about whether the tale of Adam and Lilith is real. Anything with christian beliefs mixed in is unlikely to be true. Not that the Bible never had any value, but Rome did a fine job at butchering it and that is the version we work with today.

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I attempted to give my explanation of this above with personal examples and experiences, and dicussion of historical and spiritual factors that have influenced the man/demon interaction.

Short version, is this guy standing in Harlem likely to make some interesting black friends? People who’ll help him out (and I mean, without the actual reason he does this in the movie, and with no explanation)?

Or is he likely to attract the kind of person who’ll want to fuck with him?

If not, is it likely to be:

a. because all black people are unfriendly, all the time, everywhere, or;

B. because he set the tone of the interaction, dictating the kind of experience black people can expect from him, AND also, influencing the kind of person who will pay him attention, limiting it by his own statement to those who will want to fuck with him, over those who would just ignore him because they don’t have time for this kind of thing?

Wearing items pertaining to a religion that says “I hate demons” (or angels - JoS) is kind of the same. And since spirits are clairvoyant, able to read energy, we can be “wearing” beliefs, attitudes, attunements to a current, or generally just in a harmonic state that’s as visible to them as McClane’s placard above. But I went through all that above, and won’t repeat myself.

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The entity that I called Metzack and turned out to be the Hebrew for distress, and Yam Mutzak is the primordial chaos in us , was burnt onto my pentagram after my Kundalini awakening has the shape of an angel, maybe the angelic looking beings are the evil ones and the horned entity’s are the good ones, we have just been hoodwinked by the Judeo Christian bullshit.

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Yeah horny ones are always good lol the angelic ones are bullshit you can’t eat from tree knowledge time for flood blah blah giving Lucifer a hard time all the time Lucifer must thought fuck this lot time.
I had major breakthrough last night to dragon current with Lucifer so eternal and calm there’s truth in past interpretations from not one but all of us as collective universal mind awesome

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Deleted why crap!!!

Y. “Working with a demon is like bowing to a lion n getting eaten.” Dude that’s y u been deleted.