"Working System" versus Voices of Magick

In one of E.A.'s early videos on evocation, he mentions the need for using a “working system”. He said that those methods could be found in The Order of the Golden Dawn and other groups. However, in his recently videos he places great emphasis on the need to primarily listen to the “Voices of Magick” and your intution. Is this a departure from his early stance or am I just misunderstanding him?

Dunno, but I can tell you that I personally use both - sometimes the structure is important as a base for what the voices of magick or whatever are telling you.

It’s like cooking - read the recipes and learn the basics, but once you know what goes well together, you need never pick up another book except to broaden your repertoire and be inspired.

Even as a kid I knew crisps (chips) and cheddar worked well together, but you don’t put garlic mayo on choc-chip cookies… :slight_smile:

For example, because I know that demonic evocation traditionally uses smoke, when Belial appeared in the dawn mist in a grove of trees, I understood the background to this (a substance in transition) and didn’t misinterpret it as “Oh hey, maybe Belial is really a water-nymph” - or something!

And it means you understand some principles, so can look out for situations in future where they may be available. But Belial would have appeared there anyway, even if I’d never heard of copal resin, triangles of manifestation, etc.

Based on what I actually did from childhood on, I recommend you proceed trusting the voice of magick, and also educate yourself in the conventions, they’re useful to understand the different methods and if your internal voice is telling you something you just can’t comeprehend, knowing as many systems of magick as possible might help to put that in perspective.

Take RavensAscent’s recent tutorial on a mirror box - without what we know of scrying mirrors, that could just look like a crazy chick seeing faces in her Tupperware.

But it’s not - it’s a continuation of an ongoing practice, dating back to before John Dee and his obsidian mirror (which I’m going to see again at the weekend btw!).

Context is important and educating yourself in all known systems helps broaden that context.

And keeping honest and accurate records, tedious as it often is, helps you begin to trust that inner certainty. :slight_smile:

Maybe E.A. will pick it up in the Q&A and answer what he meant for himself, but I have an approach that uses both so I thought I’d share fwiw.

No, that just meant the systems work but perception and belief is needed. We all knew that though the systems work we still have our part.

These systems are developed for people to have an easier start but anyone can leave them when they already learned how to communicate directly to non-earthly beings. If there are no objections, I say the systems developed are completely focused on communicating to these other beings.

Got info about Fae/faerie/fay tradition…
They can evoke entities without systems that need physical workings.

Oh, my answer…

It’s not a versus, It’s a ladder concerning learning, if you are talking about independence of the two. But, the two can’t be separated because they overlap to each other.

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I was always under the impression that you need a specific amount of tutorial to get the basics in place - then basically most of your spells et al will come from the very spirits themselves - In OBERON there is a spell or ritual that involves a spirit who you get to fill a book full of paper with spells et al and info. You take the paper to the forest after doing such and such and the spirit fills in the pages for you.

I see very little in contemporary magic where there is a DIRECT physical interaction in the form of a thing.

I havent tried the ritual above. I suggest if I had I couldnt tell what was written anyway probably.