Why so limited?

I got into magick because I want the extraordinary. I need it. I crave it at some deep level. I want dragons, angels, demons, fairies and all that other “impossible” shit. Portals to other places. Physical shape shifting…

So why is it that even experienced magicians say this is not possible? Yet in the same breathe they will talk about ascension. I see it all the time.

I accept the impossible because even scientifically… It checks out at several levels. The more I learn in magick and in science the more I see that it’s absurd to think we are victims of this so called reality. We are all whatever we can perceive. What we choose to be and each individuals reality DOES compensate as well as collectively so why limit it by saying “it doesn’t work like that”?

Saying that limits the magick and is the very thing holding us all back. In this day and age to say magick is what we do is already lunacy by the status quo so why not say: " Fuck it. Ima do a spell to give me permanent teleportation powers"?

Why are so many magicians so limited in what they believe.

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One must be reasonable and logical in their magickal path work. It would be way more sensible to conjure King Belial that came from the Future that holds teleportation powers and asknhiknquestionsnon the secrets of those… So you could then be as a scientist or engineer that works on say some technological aspect or hardware that builds the machine that does teleportation. Keep in mind that the trick is actually in how one conjures and asks Belial or other demons, because such a technology woukd definetely be protected by other sorcerors and their “High-Tek Magitek” spells and demons in order to protect such secrets. Likewise, you might not want to necessarily build the machine outright hence you might gain unwanted attention. Its not that we cannot teleport, but that we dont have the know how or hardware or anything yet to achievenit which I believe would require a high energy transitkonal states of being. Moat assuredly other magicians either dont have their head in the right place to begin such a thing or it isnt on their priority list of interest or they just dont believe

I think it’s easier to learn and comprehend magic if we lower the bar of expectation as low as possible, with enough beliefs to make the results applicable to work with.

Overconfidence in magic and pretty much anything else, will often create the limitation your topic is about. Sometimes to an extent that it will question your own abilities and even your motifs, whenever you start failing. Perfectionists work that way, too, which sometimes leads them to a path they never wanted to go in the first place.

You can have those things in the astral through a relatively small amount of training and work, and no, that’s not “imaginary” :slight_smile: - it’s a real place that can affect the physical realm, but the rules of matter, mass, and manifestation there are much looser.

So that’s a start - and IMO that is how these ideas entered the mainstream.

Secondly: just because Iron Man can fly using physical tools and laws, doesn’t mean that the science physics is a bust and all physicists are a chicken-shit waste of time because right now, they haven’t invented anything which would permit this - in fact people are working towards this all the time, just as, in magick, a lot of people are working towards being able to physically manifest spirits, and also be able to manifest objects into existence from nowhere - what E.A. calls “the Devil’s stone” I think, and something I first got a grasp upon years ago.

So why is it that even experienced magicians say this is not possible? Yet in the same breathe they will talk about ascension. I see it all the time.

Because we’re working towards that?

I can’t speak for anyone else, but my goal, which I work hard towards, is to “command the powers of a Goddess within my lifetime” - that means, if I will something to occur, it will happen - and the gap (that commonly exists) between my willing it, and existing, probablistically-determined reality working through known channels to deliver it, is going to shorten, until eventually I cross the line where the mass-created, observed reality which has to stick to ITS rules loses its hold, and it begins to be dominated by my own rules - which may not always require existing channels to manifest it for me.

The more I learn in magick and in science the more I see that it's absurd to think we are victims of this so called reality. We are all whatever we can perceive. What we choose to be and each individuals reality DOES compensate as well as collectively so why limit it by saying "it doesn't work like that"?

Repeated observation?

I can and have manifested things from thin air - but it was a hard mental and emotional state to maintain, and still function, and it also wasn’t under my conscious control, because the unity with Source (as I call it) that I needed to be in, in order to do that, cannot easily exist in the same mind as an individuated ego that’s capable of will, of desire and aversion, and so on.

I posted my findings to date about this in this thread, and so far those have held true for me.

Saying that limits the magick and is the very thing holding us all back. In this day and age to say magick is what we do is already lunacy by the status quo so why not say: " Fuck it. Ima do a spell to give me permanent teleportation powers"?

Why are so many magicians so limited in what they believe.

Why do you care? I don’t mean that in a snarky way, but if I read this right, you’re saying that we’ve inherited certain limiting ideas that we believe to be absolute laws, and it’s holding us back.

The first and obvious answer to that, is “Great! - you reject those laws, attain the kinds of things described, and then PLEASE come back and tell us how you did them!” - and once again, I’m NOT being snarky there, I’m quite serious. :slight_smile:

As for the rest of us, I can’t speak for everyone but I respectfully reject that in my case - at the time I had my first experiences of this, of my thoughts directly shaping reality with no real intermediary, I had NO concept of magick as a godlike power to (for example) manifest items and events - it actually totally freaked me out, albeit in a good way.

It was actually only when I found this site that I heard anyone discussing this as a magickal concept, prior to that the only people I’d heard talk about manifesting things were the Law of Attraction crowd, and they’re usually heavily RHP-oriented and caught up debating the Divine Paradox.

So, I didn’t inherit any concepts of limitations on this, because I didn’t know anyone else had even tried to do it before.

In the end though what I think or anyone else thinks shouldn’t matter too much to you - yes, when someone new joins and says “Magick HAS TO BE able me being able to fly, turn into a tiger, and manifest gold bricks from thin air, or else it’s all fake and you’re all delusional” then people (myself included) will reply to that, because we have enough evidence and experience in our own lives that magick is real, and that its reality is NOT dependent upon it being able to do those kinds of things.

It’s like someone saying “Medicine MUST be able to grow back a severed arm overnight, or else medicine is entirely imaginary and fraudulent, and all doctors are delusional” - it’s taking an existing field of human endeavour, setting totally arbitrary standards for what it MUST be able to acheive, and then dismissing it outright when it can’t match those standards.

But anyone whose life has been saved by a blood transfusion or appendectomy KNOWS medicine is real, and effective, and valid, and that setting the bar so high isn’t a valid way to discuss the subject.

So, those kinds of posts tend to get told that no, magick won’t make you able to fly, something you can witness by the slight lack of flying magicians visibly whizzing round our skies.

But can it allow you to do out-of-body experiences, to the point where you’re flying above the earth invisibly, and exploring things? I believe it can - I don’t do that myself, but I believe other people can, and remote viewing certainly seems to get results.

Can I magick up a tennis raquet from thin air in front of me? No.

But I could be certain to be able to send an intention to get one, and at some point very soon, someone will offer me their new raquet they don’t need for some reason, or I’ll see a really good on at an amazingly low price in the next store I visit that has any slight probability of selling such a thing.

This is how 99% of magick works, in my experience and (I believe) that of most people here.

Is it possible people exist who can make something pop out of thin air? Hell yes!

But they’re probably not posting about it online (or flying around getting captured on film), because all communities tend to exist from equal give and take, and someone whose skills have reached that level is unlikely to have a need to regularly visit forums to learn or share experiences, where in any event they’d be asked for proof (and, adding hostile or even neutral observers to THAT level of work seems to seriously undermine it)…

Maybe they have other people, like themselves, to talk to - I dunno.

So to sum up, yes many of us aspire to those kinds of things you describe, some of us have experienced them in sufficient measure that we KNOW (not “believe”) they’re possible, and are working towards them.

But when people say “If magick can’t do X, Y and Z all the time and for everyone, then it must be fake” - that’s just really illogical and dumb. :slight_smile:

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Great post, Lady Eva. One point I’d like to make deals with spiritual maturity. Most of us start out in Magick because of the shiny things we think we can get from Magick. For most people, though, the longer they practice, the more skills they develop, the more they learn from spirits, the more they realize the shiny things aren’t important. Suddenly a stable and comfortable living is more important than manifesting gold ingots or winning the lottery. Spending time with a spirit in order to learn a new skill that will be of benefit becomes more important than flying. The more you learn, and the more you grow, the more you see “the big picture”. Spiritual gold becomes more important than elemental gold. I don’t think it’s a matter of limiting your thoughts about what’s possible, but rather, understanding what’s truly important.

Very true. Also, why fly, for example, which I’m 99% certain would land most people in a lab being dissected sooner or later, when you can manifest a private helicopter or first-class plane tickets to anywhere you wish, and travel in style, comfort, and total safety?

All the really far-out stuff that people have talked about at different times seems most likely to land that person in a world of problems, for example, walking down the street with your pet dragon, or suddenly and unaccountably having large amounts of pure unhallmarked gold… it’s other people who aren’t in on it, observing, that seems to be a major problem.

I’m NOT saying these things would never be possible, but if someone can take the world into their head and edit it as they see fit, they could be getting the same effects through causes that don’t raise a single eyebrow in the normal world. Or maybe I’m just not the flashy sort… :wink:

Through Lady Eva’s help on here, I now accept that magick is real (yes, I will probably “relapse”, but that will become less and less). But I have had to accept it on its own terms, not the terms that Hollywood or myself put on it. What that means for me is, magick can do what is improbable, but possible. I hope that time and experience will expand my notion of what is “possible”. But for now, using it to find a fulfilling career is the goal; trying to grow someone’s missing leg back is not.

You can have those things in the astral through a relatively small amount of training and work, and no, that’s not “imaginary” :slight_smile: - it’s a real place that can affect the physical realm, but the rules of matter, mass, and manifestation there are much looser.

So that’s a start - and IMO that is how these ideas entered the mainstream.

Secondly: just because Iron Man can fly using physical tools and laws, doesn’t mean that the science physics is a bust and all physicists are a chicken-shit waste of time because right now, they haven’t invented anything which would permit this - in fact people are working towards this all the time, just as, in magick, a lot of people are working towards being able to physically manifest spirits, and also be able to manifest objects into existence from nowhere - what E.A. calls “the Devil’s stone” I think, and something I first got a grasp upon years ago.

So why is it that even experienced magicians say this is not possible? Yet in the same breathe they will talk about ascension. I see it all the time.

Because we’re working towards that?

I can’t speak for anyone else, but my goal, which I work hard towards, is to “command the powers of a Goddess within my lifetime” - that means, if I will something to occur, it will happen - and the gap (that commonly exists) between my willing it, and existing, probablistically-determined reality working through known channels to deliver it, is going to shorten, until eventually I cross the line where the mass-created, observed reality which has to stick to ITS rules loses its hold, and it begins to be dominated by my own rules - which may not always require existing channels to manifest it for me.

The more I learn in magick and in science the more I see that it's absurd to think we are victims of this so called reality. We are all whatever we can perceive. What we choose to be and each individuals reality DOES compensate as well as collectively so why limit it by saying "it doesn't work like that"?

Repeated observation?

I can and have manifested things from thin air - but it was a hard mental and emotional state to maintain, and still function, and it also wasn’t under my conscious control, because the unity with Source (as I call it) that I needed to be in, in order to do that, cannot easily exist in the same mind as an individuated ego that’s capable of will, of desire and aversion, and so on.

I posted my findings to date about this in this thread, and so far those have held true for me.

Saying that limits the magick and is the very thing holding us all back. In this day and age to say magick is what we do is already lunacy by the status quo so why not say: " Fuck it. Ima do a spell to give me permanent teleportation powers"?

Why are so many magicians so limited in what they believe.

Why do you care? I don’t mean that in a snarky way, but if I read this right, you’re saying that we’ve inherited certain limiting ideas that we believe to be absolute laws, and it’s holding us back.

The first and obvious answer to that, is “Great! - you reject those laws, attain the kinds of things described, and then PLEASE come back and tell us how you did them!” - and once again, I’m NOT being snarky there, I’m quite serious. :slight_smile:

As for the rest of us, I can’t speak for everyone but I respectfully reject that in my case - at the time I had my first experiences of this, of my thoughts directly shaping reality with no real intermediary, I had NO concept of magick as a godlike power to (for example) manifest items and events - it actually totally freaked me out, albeit in a good way.

It was actually only when I found this site that I heard anyone discussing this as a magickal concept, prior to that the only people I’d heard talk about manifesting things were the Law of Attraction crowd, and they’re usually heavily RHP-oriented and caught up debating the Divine Paradox.

So, I didn’t inherit any concepts of limitations on this, because I didn’t know anyone else had even tried to do it before.

In the end though what I think or anyone else thinks shouldn’t matter too much to you - yes, when someone new joins and says “Magick HAS TO BE able me being able to fly, turn into a tiger, and manifest gold bricks from thin air, or else it’s all fake and you’re all delusional” then people (myself included) will reply to that, because we have enough evidence and experience in our own lives that magick is real, and that its reality is NOT dependent upon it being able to do those kinds of things.

It’s like someone saying “Medicine MUST be able to grow back a severed arm overnight, or else medicine is entirely imaginary and fraudulent, and all doctors are delusional” - it’s taking an existing field of human endeavour, setting totally arbitrary standards for what it MUST be able to acheive, and then dismissing it outright when it can’t match those standards.

But anyone whose life has been saved by a blood transfusion or appendectomy KNOWS medicine is real, and effective, and valid, and that setting the bar so high isn’t a valid way to discuss the subject.

So, those kinds of posts tend to get told that no, magick won’t make you able to fly, something you can witness by the slight lack of flying magicians visibly whizzing round our skies.

But can it allow you to do out-of-body experiences, to the point where you’re flying above the earth invisibly, and exploring things? I believe it can - I don’t do that myself, but I believe other people can, and remote viewing certainly seems to get results.

Can I magick up a tennis raquet from thin air in front of me? No.

But I could be certain to be able to send an intention to get one, and at some point very soon, someone will offer me their new raquet they don’t need for some reason, or I’ll see a really good on at an amazingly low price in the next store I visit that has any slight probability of selling such a thing.

This is how 99% of magick works, in my experience and (I believe) that of most people here.

Is it possible people exist who can make something pop out of thin air? Hell yes!

But they’re probably not posting about it online (or flying around getting captured on film), because all communities tend to exist from equal give and take, and someone whose skills have reached that level is unlikely to have a need to regularly visit forums to learn or share experiences, where in any event they’d be asked for proof (and, adding hostile or even neutral observers to THAT level of work seems to seriously undermine it)…

Maybe they have other people, like themselves, to talk to - I dunno.

So to sum up, yes many of us aspire to those kinds of things you describe, some of us have experienced them in sufficient measure that we KNOW (not “believe”) they’re possible, and are working towards them.

But when people say “If magick can’t do X, Y and Z all the time and for everyone, then it must be fake” - that’s just really illogical and dumb. :)[/quote]

Well I’m glad we are all on the same page. I have had results, but I have better results when there is no doubt in my mind. Intebtion, in my experience, can be inhibited by doubt. Belief is a very powerful tool for magick. Belief turns into knowing. Into anything else.

I have been working towards trying to make it a reflex. Like a muscle movement. Some things work well this way. But I’m still working out the side effects. Trees appear randomly. Sometimes a piece of a neighborhood will change. I hope to write a book about it through balg.

Nice post!
So is it made clear enough?

For MAAAAANY DIFFERENT REASONS, adepts keep their own knowledge, don’t show up, AND give limits. That’s why VEEEERY FEW knew about them and we also don’t know their reasons because they are their reasons to keep secrets so also part of their secrets.

AH, AND
It is normal for SOME new aspirants to feel and think that way, when they seek with such concepts of jumping into magick to INSTANTLY produce something from nowhere, and can’t get them instantly. It takes time.

I believe that Hollywoods concept of magic is on an astral level, like Eva said the energies are much more flexible there. I believe it’s possible to conjure fire from your hands, but it would take a lifetime to focus your will for that singular purpose. Eastern magic has more of this physical focus, and yes i believe some can generate fire with a touch, or even levitate.

But say that you spend all your life and energy, and achieve the ability to create fire with a touch, now what. Was your life really that pointless, that it’s function would be less powerful than a lighter? Instead of trying to destroy a mountain by punching it, spend some time learning physics and chemistry, and create a big ass bomb to blow that mountain away, much easier and will take less time.

Why is the physical world structured like this? I believe that magic takes the path of least resistance, much like light. And by that do not violate the laws if nature in vain, and therefore the system does not collapse. You make a ritual to fly, maybe you get an balloon ride, you want a million dollars, they will most likely be in digital format, etc.

Lastly imagine the true will of a small child, a couple of years old. Sometime they want something, and with all their heart, soul and mind, even though their will is astronomical large, the universe does not collapse, even if they wished the world to end. They wish for a toy, they it will most likely get it from its parents.
Least resistance ensuring that the moon does not turn to cheese, even if some may believe it is :slight_smile: