Why paganism?

For all those who work with gods identified with pre-modern / pre-Christian cultures; I would be very curious to know what benefits you perceive such work to bestow upon you? If one looks at the “pagan” mythologies of Europe and what is now the Middle East; the gods of the pantheons seem quite indifferent to the affairs of human kind and, indeed are often quite capricious in their dealings with humans. Do you trust the gods? If so, why, given what their respective mythologies say about their respective natures and their dealings with humanity?

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Depends on the deity and on the pantheon. I don’t really resonate with most demons other than the Qliphothic demons. Norse deities for example, are amazing teachers. But they are a lot like us in their imperfections. Many priests and priestesses of these gods today and in the days of yore, were chosen by them and are seen as the children of these gods, so of course they would be cared for. Odin is an example. He has taken an active role in the evolution of mankind, both as a savior figure and as an adversary to promote growth. So has Loki, Enki, Prometheus, Ningizidda, Quetzalcoatl, etc. The gods do care, they just are individuals with their own agendas.

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I find that their virtues and their flaws are a point in which we can connect. Makes them more human, to an extent. Ive always found myself more drawn to their mythologies

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I guess I’m thinking of examples like Zeus when he rapes and kidnaps the boy Ganymede and again rapes Leda in the form of a swan. Or perhaps Ishtar who sends Gugalana; the bull of heaven to kill Gilgamesh because he spurned her sexual advances. The Sumerian gods wipe out all of humanity in a flood in the same epic and then get frightened by its power and hide in a corner of heaven while “Ishtar shrieks like a woman in labour”. I just wondered what the benefit of interacting with such beings is. But then again the Abrahamic god is no better in the Old testament when in the books of Joshua and judges he is guilty of ordering the most outrageous acts of genocide, ordering “Kill men, women, babes in arms, sheep, cattle. Spare nothing from the sword.” I just wonder do we need to interact with such beings in order to realize our own divinity? Or is it time to set these relationships aside and focus on new ways for ascent?

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I think it’s easy to paint these gods with a broad brush but I think it’s completely a case by case sort of thing. Zeus is an asshole. That’s why I’ll never work with him. Why do people work with Satan when in the Bible he’s the Lord of Darkness and tempter of mortals? Or why do people work with the Old Ones who are supposedly out to destroy the Earth? Myths are myths. Most myths have a grain of esoteric truth in them. And turning our backs on the old gods and working with demons would simply be more of the same. If there are spiritual forces outside of us as humans, then we should try to make alliances with them. It’s a wise thing to do as they are much older than anyone alive today. They obviously know more than we do or maybe ever will know.

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One would hope that wisdom and power would naturally come with age; unfortunately that isn’t always the case. I know of many elderly ladies who would dearly love to throw one of their many cats at me and then cackle maniacally from their front porch.

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There’s always that crazy cat lady. But she sure does make life interesting doesn’t she?

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These things happen in various mythologies, yes.

BUT. If a great teacher is also a piece of shit, does that mean that their teachings have no value?

The founding fathers of these United States were complete jackasses. But people still quote them and accept their wisdom based on its own merit. Being Pagan is similar.

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I guess the same could be argued for the followers of the Abrahamic faiths. But having this kind of spiritual relationship is like any other kind of relationship; it’s built on trust not just on the information that can be imparted between the two parties. And if your partners have demonstrated untrustworthy and deceptive behaviour in the past; that has the potential to undermine any present or future relationship one might have with them.

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Can you think of one Human that could truly be an exception to this? Hate to throw the Abrahamics a bone but we are all " sinners"

So by this logic everyone should be a hermit with no interactions with anyone. Even animals, because they have deceptive behaviors to.

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I’m not trying to be snarky or anything. I’m just discussing.

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Didn’t come over as being snarky at all!

Good point! But there is a difference between relating to, let’s say your partner who tells you a white lie now and then about not drinking directly out of the milk bottle in the fridge and relating to a being who wiped out an entire population of people or raped a woman in the deceptive shape of a swan. Different levels of trust involved.

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Furthermore, personally I trust the Gods more than I trust most people. That’s me personally.
I’d invite Loki over for coffee quicker than I’d meet most people in a public place in broad daylight.

Despite the stories, I hear less about getting attacked by a Deity than I do getting harmed by another human. So going on experience, and the shared experience of others, rather than ancient stories, seems they are a lot safer.

Up to and including that there is a Hellenic Pagan in my area who has a very interesting relationship with Zues. Everytime she talks to him we get a little pop up rainstorm. Not joking. And she hasn’t had any problems.

I don’t like how Zues feels and won’t work with him cuz I don’t think we would vibe but all the same this woman’s personal experience is more valuable to me than the old myths if I were to start considering reaching out to him.

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Oh yes. We should always keep the possibility of someone fucking with us in the back of our minds. That’s just smart when we are talking about Entities or People.

Best offense is a good defense after all.

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Does she know how Hera feels about this? I hope she knows the Queen of Olympus has a tendency of watching over her husbands company in ways that might be uncomfortable. :wink:

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My take is the following:

  1. This universe is older than any of my ancestors, and older than the holy books of the world.
  2. The oldest known religion that we have evidence of is that of cave dwellers who worshipped the bear. This is probably the origin of shamans.
  3. The mythologies and modern religions have several similarities, including supernatural beings and assistants, dragons as honored beings, world floods, crucifixions, underworld visits, and resurrections.
  4. At one time there was one continent, and then continental drift occurred. At least one lost continent has been found, and the magnetic pole in Africa and the Bermuda Triangle still exist as a mystery.
  5. Mystery cults existed, and one of the oldest civilizations existed near the magnetic pole - Africa. Pole may be the incorrect terms come to think of it, but Africa has the strongest magnetism.
  6. The three largest religions existed in the Middle East, and went forth conquering, either by war or peace. Due to several wars throughout history, a lot of information was destroyed.
  7. As followers were gained, willing or unwilling, the egregores grew.
  8. As followers abandoned the Old Ones, they are probably displeased, but as trust is gained by sincere followers, the Old Ones will grow with their followers.

So, those who acknowledge the Old Ones but don’t follow them, will probably find the Old Ones displeased, as a parent may be when their child rejects them. The only capricious or malignant deities are those who embody ignorance.

My two cents.

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It’s actually a close Paternal-Offspring relationship. No sex involved. She recognizes him as a father figure.

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Have you ever heard of Process Theology? It basically this.

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Is that the branch of theology based upon the work of Alfred North Whitehead?

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That is correct

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