Why do you think your evocation is listened to?

Any spirit that is not a God or a godform: angels, demons, ghosts, geniuses…

You go to your empty room. You close the door. You do your evocations aloud.

Provided that these no-godforms are not attached to you and they are elsewhere in the spiritual realms, why in your opinion they can hear you?

Feedback, in a word.

They’re not elsewhere, they show up and are in the room with you, euch you can feel and you can feel you’re also being watched, and they “hear” you through telepathy. You say things and you get telepathic answers back that you would not have made yourself. Following that, you get results.

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Ok :grinning: Communication through telepathy could be possible. But why they show up? They are not gods nor almighty to hear your call.

Also, the point of many grimoires throughout history is to devise gnarly methods to contact those entities.

Let’s take for instance the Abramelin books. It is a 18 month operation just to contact your guardian angel.

As a bad medium, I can perceive the presence of entities and I’ve never ever perceived an entity in front of me after calling it.

I’m not saying it is not possible. Maybe some people are gifted with response to their invocations and other people just aren’t.

For the same reason why I didn’t listen to the other near 2000 year old book which also warns against demons parading as false gods. There’s a lot of fear mongering and control contained within. A similar thing is present in some of those old grimoires — even if the authors are trying to break free from it, you can still see the heavy influences and bondage rooted in the Abrahamic faiths.

Sure there are some parasitic entities but there’s a whole lot of spirits out there that aren’t. Respect goes a long way.

Other entities will show up because they feel the connection you’re trying to make, they’ll feel an affinity with you. Some sorts are more easily called than others and it might take some time to figure out which ones feel your call more easily. Likewise it can take time to develop and strengthen the connections had.

If it’s any encouragement, I have a close friend who was an atheist for decades. She wanted to believe in something but never could because she just didn’t feel anything. At least that’s how it was until she started working with the fae. She wasn’t even trying to legitimately contact them initially either, she didn’t believe in that stuff at all. It was more because she liked the aesthetics and ritual of faerie houses. Lo and behold some years later she got fully into witchcraft and has developed her magickal talents considerably.

I guess I’m bringing that up because she managed to develop that talent pretty quickly once she found a connection that worked best for her. Even if you feel like you’re a bad medium now, it might not always be that way for you.

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Hello, I would like to ask you:

Jason Miller believes that it is important to connect with a local spirit, and he believes that when you summon a higher being or angel or demon, it is often a local agent spirit that responds to your call and helps you. And some people who studied classical magick said that they had summoned a spirit, and that spirit claimed to be the Asian agent of Bune, and he took over the summoning of Bune in Asia.

Do you have any ideas? Or is it only Solomon’s system?

(Hope I haven’t deviated from the topic of this post)

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Why do you answer your phone if it rings? Its not that complicated.

Stop putting these things on some mythicsl pedestal, your committing all your questions with your unsoojen assumptions and i think they are wrong assumptions.

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Some people say that as the entities “have legions” one of those may show up.

I don’t believe either of these. I feel like we’re sometimes contacting an energy, an aspect of the conscious intelligences of the universe, and to project too much humanity on them and make too much of the way that we need to communicate is a mistake.

Meanwhile some of them are distinct personalities similar to the idea of ascended masters and respond because it suits their personal agenda for what they’re doing in their revolution at this point. To teach is to learn sort of thing.

Local fae exist and some are hard for humans to distinguish from cosmic beings, but there is a difference, especially in their reach, you cannot easily contact a fae of your local river from another country. They also do not know as much and cannot affect as much from a human life perspective.

I can’t imagine a fae doing what Ant’harratu does for my career for example, it wouldn’t even have a basis for understating that work.

If a fae comes when I call Bune then, I call that an impostor, and there are ways to check for that and avoid them. Its up the to practitioner to use them and not waste time on an entity that wants attention but maybe can’t deliver.

Also don’t forget we don’t need entities for a lot of magick and sometimes attribute the work to them when actually we did it. That can make it look like an entity helped and they didn’t.

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Thank you for your detailed and rigorous answer :+1:

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Can you ask what made her change her mind about all this? Been struggling with motivation because I’ve been a hard line atheist for over a decade or so.

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So I already know because I’d been a significant influence on her to “change her mind” so to speak, though that was never anything intentional on my part.

To give some context on her mindset about beliefs systems before, she did not grow up in a religious household and none of her closest friends from that time were from religious families either. Holidays were customary of course, but to her they merely seemed like ordeals most kept up with because they found them nice or fun. Otherwise her understanding of religion was that it was a means to keep gullible people in line (she’s not wrong about that lol).

She did have some friends who were into the occult, but she saw much of that as being this sort of shock factor/edgy teen thing. To be fair, that’s how most of them had expressed it. Some may have had genuine beliefs but that wasn’t the forefront of what they were expressing externally.

I guess my point with all that is that she was never exposed to ways in which a person’s beliefs were something more than performative customs or anything which could be deeply meaningful.

When we became friends, she was exposed to a new perspective though, albeit gradually. My beliefs/practices at the time centered around goddesses, astrology, and darker/demonic entities. I think what also helped her open up to the idea of being both logic minded and spiritual at once was because of how seriously I’d get into it on an academic level too. I’d spoken more of ancient history and myth far more than the beliefs and practices.

Sometimes when we’d spend time window shopping, we’d check out occult shops if there were any around. It was during one of those occasions, at a shop like that, where she expressed wanting to have a practice like mine but that she had a hard time getting involved because she can’t bring herself to believe in any of it.

I remember telling her that it isn’t the belief that matters as much but what it does for you. Embodying or emulate goddesses I liked made me feel stronger and helped heal significantly from some unfortunate things in the past. I’d also explained how some of the rituals, astrology, or card readings were helpful for my mental state. Even if there weren’t any real entities or spirits or magick behind any of it, it didn’t really matter — it was the effect of the practices, doing those things regularly which mattered most. I may have also described it as a sort unconventional sort of therapy.

That conversation seemed to have been a turning point though. It still took her years to get to the point where she would go on to developed more legitimate beliefs, but it had been around that time of the conversation that she started incorporating some aesthetic practices into her life. Candles, faerie houses, crystals, eventually led to a goddess altar, mediating with tarot, death magic etc. Once she started experiencing the positive effects for herself, the beliefs came along naturally.

…and to think she started out as entirely atheist too. She now involved with teaching classes/helping others to learn magick and develop their sense of spirituality.

I used to hold the stance that magickal tools were not necessary at all, but have since realized that’s more so for someone who’s highly adept, they’ve been practicing a long while, or are maybe more naturally in tune with alternate realms/spirits/etc.
Seeing how “tools” effected my formerly very atheist friend had made me rethink my stance on it. For some people they might be necessary to really get a sense of what’s helpful to them, as it was for her, since they were part of developing the everyday connections with the spirit realm.

Similarly, some people need community as part of their practice, something which also seems to have helped her a lot. She’s very driven both by knowledge as well as sharing that knowledge.

There’s not one right answer as to what will for everyone, but I think the key is finding what keeps you invested in practicing magick, whatever that may be.

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My case is quite the opposite. I’m a believer as a result of my bad mediumship (I would be an atheist without it for sure) and after doing some experimental evocation for a while, I realized how hard - at least for me - is to contact or get any verifiable response/result.

This is the reason I started to look for a “why” that makes sense for me as a medium (bad). I just fast read a book by Geof Gray-Cobb an he states that nobody knows the “why”.

It’s funny, the first time I evoked a spirit I got straight up confirmation of their presence and my psychic senses weren’t even open, but ever since then I’ve had trouble feeling the energy of any spirit I try to call upon. We really have no idea why spirits will avoid some and go to others, or leave just as soon as they came.

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