Forgive the newbieness of my question, but why do spirits, and demons in particular, answer us during evocation or any other ritual? Why do they care about our species enough to pay attention to us? I’m interested to hear all of your perspectives.
From talking to Belial, I got this:
This plain of existence is where it’s at, we as physical beings can truly become God’s and Spirits want in on that.
They also enjoy getting paid by us lol.
I’ve never asked why they want us to evolve, it’s a good question.
Yes, but we only live for about 85 years or so. What kind of a God is destined for death after such a short time?
Our physical bodies are not Gods, we are.
We experience this plain in a way other Spirits are unable to do and we can keep coming back if we want.
According to the mental-psychological model, or consciousness model… we can say that basically, we imagine them or create them, we give them their personalities and characters - including our work/business relationship - and then we experience this living reality in evocation and divination rituals under specific mental conditions.
Within this understanding, those spirits and deities are symbols, we use them to communicate with the subconscious, which is also part of the all or collective consciousness of existence. That’s how they’re able to “Get things done” for us when we ask for their help or assistance.
Depending on how you imagine the relationship goes… some people prefer to ask or pray, command without giving orders, while others believe that the best way to do it is to use higher authority, God-Angels, to command and force those beings to do what we want. They both work and produce results.
As a conclusion, to answer your question… they don’t have a choice unless we give them a choice! What’s the difference between a servitor and a God ? Nothing. One is programmed to do what you want without much argument, while another is programmed to do nothing unless you gave him something in return or even suffer before that God decides to say yes or no!
You’ll always hear this advice : “you need to have a relationship with the spirit to get them to help you”. Makes sense. Another way to look a it… you need time to train your subconscious. That’s how it’s known to work. The more time you spend with the spirit, the more your subconscious will act as if it was real. And you’ll get better results from working with it.
Not saying any of this is “THE” truth. But it makes more sense to me than the traditional-ancient-spiritual explanation. That doesn’t mean spirits do not exist outside our heads… I personally believe they do. But those are totally different than the ones we experience in magick, in my opinion.
I’ve heard this interpretation before, coming out of Hermeticism. The idea that demons and other spirits are just facets of our subconscious. If that’s true, our own human minds would have to be incredibly powerful and able to break a variety of physical laws in order to explain various paranormal phenomena throughout recorded human history. Personally, I don’t buy it, but that’s largely because I take the perspective of Fred Alan Wolf (a professor of physics) on parallel universes - that we can become entangled with other realities.
There is some basis for the idea of quantum mechanics exerting effects on the mind (see the Penrose-Hammeroff microtubule theory), so based on my knowledge, I’ve come to believe that our minds can interact with other realities and beings within them (such as demons). As such, I think the demons evoked in magick are objectively real.
Hmm. What evidence is there for objectively existing spirits not being the same as the ones experienced in magick?
Interesting. How would we know if we’ve been here before?
Some people swear by regression therapy and some have memories they call foreign, dreams as well.
I’m not sure if there’s a 100% way yet but I conclude at least 3 for myself based on death memories and dreams.
Here’s a related question that I’ve been pondering for a while. Is there anything we can do in this life to make it easier for ourselves to remember it next time?
Been wondering on that one myself.
Peep into the past, and u would have glances of how u lived before.
The spirit in you remembers everything, all of your incarnation but because of this veil called flesh, we forget everything. But if you can suffer the flesh and slightly take off this veil, you gon remember somethings.
Maybe Egregores and Servitors?
There is a law which they all obey, the Law of nature which is the Law of the Universe, and it is:
Whensoever a mortal shall call you, you must answer them. If you refuse I shall burn you with FIRE!
It’s as simple as that. All of these fairy tales are just stories.
Do you have a source, I’d like to look at this. Belial, for one, would never follow anyone.
Very sad you don’t plan to live a long life.
As for deamonic help they do receive large doses of energy from us when we call to them. Maybe its even possible we are helping them ascend in another reality at some point in their past. Like a symbiotic relationship. Infinite probabilities and realities.
Lol Do you know whom Belial is? Have you met him before? Oh you think it’s Belial that comes to you when you evoke him? Oh oh oh not so. He will never come to you. I used NEVER COME.
They all obey the law, either they like it or not.
That’s my personal opinion based on my experience in magick and spirit communication. Just a side note. The main principe mentioned in the rest of my reply is more important. Can’t argue with your beliefs regarding this explanation, that’s up to you. But your explanation sounds interesting… I will research and try to understand it. Thanks
Sigh… Okay no more talking to you.
Too many coming on giving their Gnosis as gospel, whatever.
It’s your way, if you can’t respect other people don’t see it that way you can talk with the mods I’m done.
Lol whatever. This is reality staring at you. Go do your findings.
I don’t know what’s the matter with people this summer @Lady_Eva