Why are so many heathens working with demons?


#1

Now I know most of you do not consider yourself Heathen, but I have not been able to get any good answers from the heathen communities I am a part of online and off, and am not keen on bringing it up to the organizations I belong to.

But over the last few years I have noticed Heathens more and more working with Demonic forces and beings. I thought I was a weirdo for doing it over a decade ago, but about 4 or 5 years ago at a pagan gathering I met a couple other self proclaimed Heathens that worked with Goetic spirits. And now with people like Koetting doing his Norse work, and Asbjorn coming along, it’s like there is more and more overlap from both sides. Odin is showing up more and more to Occultists, and demons are appealing more and more to Heathens.

I know it’s by no means a popular practice, since in many branches of Heathenry it’s looked down on to work with beings outside of the Norse/Germanic pantheon. But our numbers are becoming too large to ignore as pure chance. I feel there is something there but I am missing a piece to the puzzle.

Is it an alliance from the other side of the veil causing us to merge? Or is it simply that our ideology meshes well? Or might it be that we have a common enemy?

I would be interested to read everyone’s thoughts on the matter.


#2

Maybe it’s all of the above


#3

I suspect as much, but it’s something that I think needs to be talked about more since… Well it’s not really being talked about at all and yet it’s clearly a thing that is happening lol.


#4

Maybe more people are working towards becoming involved with chaos magic.


#5

I think it’s the particular personality traits. There’s different types of Heathens and Different types of occultists. Some of us are of the ilk that both of these currents mesh very well and are called by them.

But I can’t see Recons getting into Daemonic occult practices.


#6

Pretty sure actual occult practice would make most recons shit themselves :joy:


#7

Pretty sure being in the presence of the Deities they so proclaim to follow would make them shit themselves are you kidding me :joy:


#8

From my understanding, heathenry is compatible with many other belief systems because heathenry doesn’t dictate belief, only cosmology. As long as you can find a way for two cosmologies to intertwine, and both don’t require beliefs that are conflicting, it shouldn’t be hard to justify eclecticism. One of the major contibuters of modern heathenry, in fact, had a very Christian worldview and still respected his Icelandic roots by writing about Norse mythology. Similarly, the religion of Demonlatry is very open to paganism as sources of information (S. Connelly herself has used Egyptian inspirations frequently in her practice, so I don’t see why heathens shouldn’t do the same unless they want to be purely recinstructionists).

I’m sort of the opposite of this though; I am very Satano-Luciferian and Odin is very close to my path because he has a lot of traits of a Luciferian diety, which I highly value. Satanists also adore Loki for his prankster nature and ultimately adversarial lore. Both (spiritual/theistic) Satanists and Luciferians usually use demons in thier practice very frequently but Norse gods and beings are welcome if they contribute something to the individual’s path.


#9

I am new to the forum.

I come from Thelema Gnostic background and then after a burn out period as my life changed, I came back to spirituality through solitary working blessings with Odin, Freya and meditation on the runes.

That was 1 1/2 ago, and since then I have began to get really honest with myself about why I was attracted to the occult aside from esoteric beliefs and spirituality : success, power, inspiration, et cetera

Since then, I have began practicing candle rituals, Icelandic stave magick, sigil magick, continued working of prayer and offering to Odin and Freya - and then I am now working with the Goetic spirits and forming relationships with Astaroth, Lucifer, and the like.

I am looking for others like me and would like to know their opinions on the matter, how they mesh them.

Sometimes I feel it’s wrong, then I feel that’s a self created dogma. It is sort of complex, I don’t need complexity.

Am I making a change to working solely with demons?

Can you work with the Norse spirits in a method relatable to demonolatry, or is that chaos magick?


#10

Yes and no. There are more than a couple Galdrstafir that use Christian nonsense. A couple call on beelzebub, satan, belial. Some call on Jesus or have Jesu in the galdrstav.

By the time the Icelandic galdrabók came about Christian doctrine had already spread to the Norse and you get a lot of overlap in their magical books of Óðinn being “God” and Jesus being Balder etc.

It isn’t doctrinally correct (ie in line with the teachings in the eddas and sagas) but it was a belief held by many even to this day. There are more than a couple of “LHP” magicians calling on Jesus and all of his angels and demons.

I guess it’s really up to you. If you feel like calling on Christian spirits is helping you in your path them go for it. The Norse had their own spirits they worshipped and no they weren’t “evil” they became evil after Christian monks got their hands on Norse mythos and spun it in the light of Christian dogma.

Many folk tales that used to explain why we worshipped elves and trolls and nokken and tomte were rewritten by Christian monks to make them evil and wicked so the people would eventually stop worshipping them thinking them devils and demons instead.

Worshipping demons is a modern innovation projected onto the Norse paradigm. You are free to do as you wish. In fact, you will more than likely find others pushing you to do just that. Mix and match gods. Put Shiva beside Odin, Kali is in the same altar as Freya and baphomet. Do what you like.


#11

This is just, I believe, a symptom of us moving from the transition from the Picean age of religion and sacrifice into the Aquarian age of science and innovation.


#12

@SabahSnoblod You hit the nail on the head. They are just very compatible systems. And the spirits of both systems have similar values i.e. Individuality, freedom, bravery, honor, love, beauty, strength, power, wisdom, etc.


#13

Isn’t it odd?

I don’t mean to be “all is one” but it does remind of the Qabbalah and that the Norse path could be tied into ceremonial magick with corresponding elements etc,

But my main concern is if there are people on the same page here as me. It’s interesting.

But also, confusing and complicates things


#14

Just pointing out that I have never seen a Norse Qaballah done well. Every time it just seems… Wrong.


#15

I agree. More of a speculative comment.


#16

Right, but it doesn’t need the kabballah. The Norse already had their own associations, they had their own ceremonial magic, they had ritual and means of communication with spirits.

Why do people need to concoct methods that are not even similar? An example would be using merindindillogun (which has a very robust system of referencing patakis of the orisha and their ebo) to communicate with Thor.

You could concoct a system of stories from the sagas and common offerings to Thor and Sif and call it Norse divination now, but it’s really appropriating foreign tribal customs and using them in an awkward manner (which both groups [Norse / Lukumi] would consider disrespectful to their gods and their customs.

Eventually it comes down to respecting the traditions and peoples. If you don’t respect them, you will be more eclectic and inclined to blend and mix them as you like (even in the norseland where they accepted other foreign beliefs and customs they still kept them in separate locations than their homegrown gods)


#17

For me the relationship and use of any ritual with the Gods is not about getting things. It’s about gratitude and personal absorption of what is being taught through the relationship and my experiences / the increase in self knowledge…

In comparison to the way demonolatry works, it can also be this way with the demons, but you can also work magick for your desires.

I feel that is the separation and respect here, now I’m just ranting :blush:


#18

I kinda approach my relationship with the gods and demons differently. With the gods, I’ll give them offerings or do nice things for thing and occasionally use their help in rituals or ask for advice. They don’t really seem to mind. With demons, I almost always give them blood and evoke them in ritual toward a specific goal. However sometimes I’ll visit them in the astral just for a chat. Just the way I roll.


#19

You’re correct. The norse ritual cycle is about giving a gift of thanks. Not begging for help or money.


#20

…?