i am confused about the definition of demons, are they evil ? what is their origin ?
also who is really the devil, satan or lucifer ? and why magicians evoke an evil being like him ?
have you seen the movie Bedazzled (2000) where the devil grants wishes only to fuck us in another way, i mean why the devil or demons help us, what is the catch ?
It’s not that they are evil beings, they are actually forces of the universe or Gods, it was only until the cristians and muslems demonized them and made them into demons. Most of the demons of the Goetia are actually ancient gods from various nation’s and Everytime the Christians or muslems or Jews took over an area they would take the local deity and say it was the devil or a demon to keep their flock scared of it and to attept to bring the worshipers of it over to their side. It’s the old saying “One man’s God is another man’s Devil”
Even many of the names stayed the same or have a slight variation. Most of them are regional middle eastern deitys.
I would say it is about the spirit preference on the person what I have discovered it starts in ranks like the army you have to work with the ground demon like bune. When I tried to speck to Lucifer he did not want to speck to me. But now he dose because I have spoken to the angels and demons who are blow him I would say you have to balance it on my view. because too much of one thing can damage heart the brain and soul.
The word “demon” seems to come to us from the Latin word “daemon” which is commonly translated as “spirit”. The Latin word “daemon” apprears to come from the Greek word “daimon”.
There seemed to be two words further describing the qualities of the spirit: eudaemon and cacodaemon. The eudaemon was considered a “good” spirit while the cacodaemon was considered an “evil” spirit.
Now, I’m no language expert. But I thought it was interesting that this concept of the corrupt, evil demons didn’t seem to come from just the word itself.
So where does it come from?
Religions, particularly the mono-theistic Abrahamic religions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
Religions have for thousands of years used two methods to get people to stop worshipping their own gods and to start worshipping the conqueror’s gods.
The first one was simply to claim that the name of your god is really just another name for my god. See, you were worshipping my god all along, you just used a different name.
The second one was to claim that your god was really a deceitful, vile, evil spirit all along and that my god is more powerful than that evil spirit, which is why my tribe kicked your tribe’s ass. And my sword at your neck is pretty convincing.
But there are other viewpoints.
Some people believe the spirits are just psychological constructs for talking to different parts of our own subconscious.
Other people believe that all spirits are egregores, thoughts given form by the creative aspects of humans.
There are probably a bunch of other viewpoints I’ve never even considered.
From my own experiences, I believe that we make contact with a conscious force of the universe and then the name of that spirit becomes a link to that force.
But it gets a little more complicated when you add the creative power of human belief to the mix.
I believe all humans can give form to thoughts and those “thought forms” can take on a life of their own if you do it unconsciously.
I’ve created these “thought forms”, often called “servitors” or “egregores”, consciously and they’re very helpful in my magick.
But I believe we can all create these thought forms unconsciously, especially through the power of belief. It doesn’t seem to matter if what you believe is true or not.
And the more people you get adding their belief to the mix, the more powerful the egregore becomes. But it can also change, adapt, and evolve into something different.
So I believe it’s all these things and I’ve worked with all of these things in my own magick.
All the replies above are great, and I want to throw in a different angle based on those - why would people reply to you honestly and helpfully, and expect nothing in return?
And not just here, but pretty much every forum online, from sewing to surgery, you get people asking for help or advice, and other people giving their precious time and knowledge to offer it, 99.999% of the time completely free of charge, and to a total stranger.
What I’m getting at is, most living beings have things they enjoy doing, for the sake of it or to display mastery, to further the level of study and interest in the area that they love, or for the attention or thanks they get, motivations vary and often people have bits of several kinds, but the end result is the same - you get the help you need.
Some spirits (demons, gods, whatever) are more motivated by being given specific types of offerings, others will want you to pact with them, and/or let them mentor you, they’re not all of one kind any more than all humans are like, at least that’s been my experience so far (25+ years and counting).
@Lady_Eva is a BOSS. Wonderful comment. 100% agree.
All the replies are great however. Nice info @Valkarath.
The fact that you can feel the presence of a spirit when calling it towards you speaks to their fundamental nature. The key here is that we can FEEL them. Its way more common to feel the presence before seeing them. That is some pretty crazy shit right? Anybody can sit here and type out a 10,000 word essay on the matter and it still won’t answer those questions that have been burning so fiercely in the heart of Man for millennia.
Maybe we aren’t capable of understanding it. Hell most people including myself can’t even wrap our heads around the concept of hypersphere geometry, which may be very relevant to magick. (See Peter J. Carroll’s work on Chaos Magick in his book Liber Null)
We are dimensionally limited. When we get our glimpses, it is difficult as hell to explain.
Paranormal investigators keep on failing to capture anything significant time and time again.
thank you all for your reply.
ok, so demons are demonized by religion, but what about the devil ? is he also made evil by religion ? what’s his real story ? you know we have been taught since childhood that the devil is evil and he is the enemy of god and man and he is working on our suffering and leading us to hell, what is the occult have to say about that ?
it is strange to see people working with lucifer and say that he is helping and teaching them, isn’t he supposed to be man’s enemy ? being evil and unlike other entities why would man worship him and why would he help us ?
The Crown Jewel of all the occult. the beginning and the end - in one neverending paradoxical flux.
The Devil is the pinnacle off all and also the only true (un)thing.
The Embodiment of the Void itself - the originator of absolute evil - yes
but not of suffering
the Suffering is not the work of the Devil. it also might be the only thing that is not the Work of the Devil.
i say that Devil is All - minus the Suffering
and by suffering, i don’t mean experience of pain. experience of pain is not necesserily suffering.
The False Light god is the cause of suffering. some understand this.
Before Father of Hypocracy created the Kingdom of Light and claimed all of Creation, there was no suffering.
SUFFERING - is caused by the burdens of karma and illusion (which are the main tools of the Demiurge)
Suffering is one of main powersources for this wreched entity.
the Devil, his enemy, is the alleviator of suffering.
andy you made quite a lot precise accusations
except suffering of course.
but everything else, yes the Devil is also enemy of man.
man is creature bound to time and karma and all this other idiocy. the enemy of man is liberator of x-man.
and x doesn’t stand for christmas.
it stands for the unique unknown parameter waiting to be unclocked within ordinary man.
and christianity was in fact the true religion of x-men, but (((hierophants))) perverted the the X and made it into a cross with a dying suffering son of a totaly loving god.
just think of emotions like hunger.
Demons are also a term for Dimensional-Wandering Beings,
or for Humans Desires.
Just think of it this way:
When you’re taking medicine, you actually take a Little bit of poison,
To heal a also poisoned part of your being.
negative multiplied with negative equals positive.
“the third one of the 2 who argue, wins”.
By first going a step back,
then going a step in,
you eliminate both the before and after.
Left, is the middle one,
the inner centre,
the true you.
Now having the inner you,
you notice, that good and evil are next to you.
One on each shoulder.
They try to tell you stuff,
and some of it you follow,
others you ignore.
You notice how your Kunda raises.
Your very Body is energized.
And Chi (life-Energy), is not just being needed but even emitted from you.
Think of it that way.
It may help.
just look into neuro-linguistic programming,
That stuff is the Scientific re-production of magick.
Except, Magick can do way much more!!!
Just imagine you’re hunger wasn’t just a hunger,
but something you can use,
to ask out for a Djinn,
to help you,
even Serve you.
But Djinn are dangerous creatures!
Born of Fire.
So at the same time,
you want to be cleanly washed by the shining Waters,
as a Djinn can trick you very easily.
Imagine a Being,
not Bound to time and Space.
Imagine a Being,
that is capable,
of traveling as fast as thought.
There’s a reason many work it only by Night…
Djinn are Old, Wise beings.
Capable of easily Outsourcing you,
even where there is nothing around to provide.
So, A Djinn, should always be approached by Respect, Gratitude…
How do you threat your Friends?
Treat a Djinn Better.
For the time, as you Need something,
The Djinn becomes your Ally.
Therefore Treat the Djinn like an old God,
or just even Like an Passed by Anchestor.
At the same time,
don’t forgett your own Value.
A Godlike creature, rarely want’s to be brought under Control,
it’s this additude, of approaching them with an
-what can we agree upon, by filling in the Blankets,
Like Goetia will teach you more,
than anyone of us here can!
Demons actually dictionary definition is “intermediary between God’s and men” more or less they are not evil they are evil in the eyes of the judeo Christian Church. They are very intelligent beings and entities it is just in the eyes of religion and the churches they are evil but even the Bible doesn’t go into much detail about demons or Satan or Lucifer Satan actual translates from Jewish vocabulary as “adversary” Lucifer translates to " the shining one"
I think if you look at the mythology of the garden of Eden in the right context you can reveal much.
First and foremost we have to ask why on several things.
The first section of the story is the scene where God tells Adam not to eat from a particular tree. This is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
The character of the serpent convinces Adam and Eve that they will not die like God had told them.
Let’s break this down a bit. Why would God tell them not to eat from the tree? (Ignorance is bliss)
This is why the garden is paradise, mankind does not know evil or good and along with gaining knowledge of good and evil man gains knowledge of his nakedness (ignorance) and ignorance of mortality. In this knowing mankind also loses his innocence as he now understands the consequences of his actions.
Why does the serpent defy gods wishes and tempt Adam to the fruit? To say that this whole event could occur would be an indication that God does not have full control of his creation and as such is a clue to the truth of your situation.
Either God wants you to take the fruit and be like they are knowing good and evil or there is a lack of control indicating something ain’t right and we may have an impostor.
The cloven footed horn-headed Devil? See the Greek god of panic, lust, mountain tops and wild places in forests and countryside. …o yeah otherwise known as the partying god Dionysius… Have you ever partied with a nun or catholic priest?
There’s your answer on how they turned the aforementioned gods into “devils”.
The “Div” - The Different ones.
Every answer here is wildly different from the other. I’d say it leads to more confusion than anything else.
Not to be argumentative, but here is a thought…so why do we allow the Christians to hand us our label of “demon” when in fact we do not believe that these entities are demons? If they are all gods, then why are we substituting the label “demon”? Is this not giving in to their line of thinking and ultimately counter productive?
Much in the same way black people have taken their racial slurs and use them as terms of endearment amongst friends. We do the same sort of thing with the demonic Kings . The Christians and the Jews before them knew that they could not disprove the existence of such gods and nature spirits that are subservient to them especially when much of their own religion is a straight out rip off of the very religions who’s gods they now call demons.
Throughout Europe a mass forced conversion to Christianity under the sword, left many feeling bitter and angry. Much of the " taking back of the old religion" involved making a mockery of Christianity. This is the origin of theistic satanism. Almost every god and nature spirit from the old religions of the middle East are demons of the old grimoire.
Imagine your house was invaded and all your favorite sports team posters and memorobelia were graffiti to look like Nazi memorabilia. Well the damage is already done so fuck it we might as well have an inside joke and call our football team the Hitlers. This not only puts off any potential assholes but also makes those that practice actually understand the origins and ways of their art.
I also wonder why succubi don’t simply create a new word for humans to call their kind. Or perhaps allow magicians to create a new and respectful word for succubus which would then by approved by Lilith herself.