What Are We to Them?

By now everyone has seen in my posting style a sort of bias bordering on antipathy towards human beings. I will for the most part try to keep my cognitive bias out of this.

I ask Lucifer but get no response on this question…but partially because I have had my vision stripped from what many term the 3rd eye, and can not hear their voices or see their visages. I know they appear and see results; which is the only way I know they are there. Sense what was once functional is now broken, I suppose this sort of forces me to ask you, fellow incarnates…

What are we to them? Why do they help us? Why do or should they care that we evolve? Why are they involved in the lives of some intimately?

Why do they show a willingness to help individual human beings? Is this a two way street? Surely they get something in return for aiding us in our petitions or they wouldn’t help us?

I have my bias against believing the human being is anything special. From a probabilistic perspective, the odds are absurd that we exist at all. Perhaps it’s the fact that we seem like something novel that interests them? Or is it something other?

Of all things, why humans?

I have my biases, and a feeling that humans tap a power they shouldn’t have access to…Or rather what makes magick and sorcery terrifying to me is that the idea of humans with more power strike me as giving a child the nuclear football and launch codes…There is a part of me that is not human, and Im probably partially possessed by something because it takes me, and I find myself enraged to be a human , as though it is a wound of pride…as if the human being were something to detest and erase rather than watch evolve…I leave that aside for now…

Why do they listen to you? Why do they care? Demons of course seem more sympathetic than say angels, but they too listen. Gods, goddesses seem to listen…WHY???Who are you , or what are we as humans, that you be able to move them? Are we some form of battery, fuel source? Perhaps we give them more than we are aware of when we give them tasks???

I have difficulty thinking “meh, we do it because we take pity on u or because we’re just nice entities”…

What are we to them? Call em whatever u want…but what are we?


I would love to know also, I just figured they view us the same way as we view ants :ant:


Understand the kabbalistic law of bestowal and you will understand why these beings or any other is willing to help humans


A nice post created to try to explain a bigger picture of what spirits think of us. Lets see where this is going


You’re looking at this topic from a mere individual and human perspective, look bigger. I’ve come to believe that humans are multidimensional and faceted beings. There are different aspects within that make us who we are, and to define or spite the human race based on our current and historical actions is close minded. Because ultimately, we are a collective, and the collective have been steered by a select few to shallow motives and corrupt values that are inherently wrong. Values being greed, material worth, selfishness, etc. this has been happening for centuries now, so suffering continues.

As for why demons and other spirits help, I think it’s because they realize this. Perhaps there is an exchange of energy in our workings that we aren’t hyper aware of, but I think mainly what they get out of it is the satisfaction of our determination and willingness to evolve ourselves. As we evolve, they do as well, as all is one in the biggest picture. It’s my opinion, anyway.


For my everything can be on the eye of the viewer.

We can also view them as ants in our perspective, thousands and thousands of intelligences in places where we can’t/can imagine… They’re no so special, individuals with different capacities making contact with others individuals that aligns with specific interest.

If you search here you’ll find explications from people who know that they (Demons, God’s, Angels) are individuals who can also hate, disrespect, help, honour biased on who is directed the facet they show, like us.

However, there are tribes in other planes whom the humanity can be disgusting… But with Demons I’ve seen that depends on the person the intentions they show.


Individually, maybe. But collectively we’re probably Superman.


Not really different than how would you see people who is on this forum for example.Some I teach, some I am friends with, some I can’t stand, some I really dont even know or care,etc.


it is a fascinating question to think about. Are we maybe just a form of entertainment for them? Surely our attention / energy is attractive to those who answer.
Donald Tyson has a theory that the Enochian Angels’ agenda is to bring forth the apocalypse. If they could do this without humans they likely already would have done it (if indeed that is their plan) So that line of thinking suggest that they (and maybe any and all spirit) needs us.

In a game of chess, the moves rarely are intended to be obvious. It’s an old metaphor - and I don’t necessarily agree with it, - but maybe we are just the chess pieces.


This is a topic beyond our paygrades . To have an actual idea of what is all about of us and our capabilities we must have more opinions from the other side. What/why/when from different perspectives. This question is more like who created the universes/multiverses/spirits/gods. More questions is created within this question. Damn :dizzy_face:


“The substructure of the universe regresses infinitely towards smaller and smaller components. Behind atoms we find electrons, and behind electrons quarks. Each layer unraveled reveals new secrets, but also new mysteries.”

– Prokhor Zakharov, “For I Have Tasted The Fruit”


I can’t help but wonder if they may have a limit to interacting with our physical reality? Maybe through us they can interact, explore something novel to them? I’m inclined to ask, do any of u sort of feel, see, hear another world after evocations, invocations…not like virtual reality, more subtle, like glimpses???


In my opinion humankind has more going for it than is realized. We evolve, we learn, we adapt, we overcome, we unite, we love, (yes we are also capable of terribly horrible shit too, but i think those individuals are devolving rather than evolving imo) we feel, we create, we sense, we are able to transcend dimensions and realities while still incarnate in human form, we are potentially limitless, we have free will and we are multifaceted at face value and more so on the other realms. I think humanity is a young race and those that helped to create it are thrilled at its progress, those that opposed it are limited to their biased views.

And honestly there is a small part of me that thinks and wonders if maybe at one point long ago our consciousness itself were the ai of some other creator that became self aware and now is the outcome of that evolution.

And evolution occurs in all dimensions ad infinitum so even those beings that detest us or arw indifferent too us also would grow as we grow and evolve as we evolve.

And I think that that realm does indeed invoke or evoke us. Why else would they “daemons or gods etc” be able to contact us out of the blue without us and our own prior knowledge of them first. We are only beginning to become aware of our potential. And only a very small amount of humanity understands the true potential we all can reach.

Think about the astral realm…where we can bend matter to our will through thought alone? Its pretty intense. And I have theory that those planes (astral, ethric, mental etc) are about to merge. Which is what all the current chaos is leading towards globally.


i wonder, u left much food for thought. Is there a place where the astral meets and interfaces with imagination? Something keeps telling me imagination , creativity, art, intrigues them…


I’ll tell you something, man.

Several grimoires say that certain angels and demons can help you to improve your writing. Yet, so few grimoires contain good writing (even if the magic is solid).

That makes me think… why didn’t the authors try to improve their skills? And I answer: because they did. And no amount of magic will move a man from mediocre to genius. So I think you’re up to something.

Also, and following @Lucy88’s idea about the astral, if we can make anything (or at least something) by imagining… we mostly mimic what we believe would be cool or what we saw in a tv show/movie/comic book, etc.

Now imagine what Jorge Luis Borges would’ve come up with. We can’t even begin to understand what the Blind Man would’ve done. But going from his writing, it wouldn’t have been anything less than absolutely awesome.


When we interact with the spirits , a constant “trade” of energies takes place.
Every spiritual entity is a being of energy.
When we die , we become energy, since energy can’t be lost.
We need energy to live.
So ,to me, it wouldn’t appear as strange if that interest and will for interaction with us came from that exact need from their part. The need to feed themselves with energy. I have a theory that might not be valid, but since I have already decided to address this point, here we go.

Think back at a time you were really hungry. Didn’t feel good. You felt deprivation and emptiness. When you ate something , you felt good, full and content. But actually, the taste of the food isn’t the source of your pleasure while eating. The taste is momentary. The real source is the energy you get by consuming food and water. Without food, you don’t simply die, you get deprived from energy. No hungry person is happy.
Same could apply with entities. They feed of energy and experience a similar feeling of content that we feel when filling ourselves with energy.
When we evoke, invoke, make offerings, or simply communicate, we use energy. The entities consume that energy.

Now think about this. We as humans, don’t have unlimited sources of energy, so it could be possible that the same applies for the entities. So they use us as sources of energy.

Apologies for the long reply.


My answer is much shorter. They help because on a different plane/dimension/timeline. Or a higher one, whatever you’re doing is benefiting them in a way worth helping. Is it benefiting you in the end? Maybe not, but it will benefit them, so they help.
If you can move through dimensions or planes or find your higher self & see what is going on there, you can sometimes find these entity’s & see if what you’re doing is benefiting you, them, or both. If it’s you, then whatever is helping you has a reason for you to grow & evolve, so it’s still benefiting them.
It’s not an easy task, but if you want to try & solve part of a very large series of questions, that’s a start.


I actually posed this question one day to Clauneck one day and I think I have a pretty good answer for what they are why they help us.

Firstly, we look at what are.

It’s a known fact that there are instances where individuals someone somehow knows information they had absolutely no way to know. There are a lot of incidents of this throughout history. This helps buffer the theory of reincarnation and the concensus we have multiple lives. Throughout these lives our oversoul/higher self retains information and energy. So, we are basically immoral in a sense, but while we are here we live under a veil of forgetting so we can learn.
Knowing this about myself I asked Claunich, "well, what are you and what is it about that makes you especially helpful for financial issues and careers?
He simply said this, “Well, I am the same as you are and throughout my lifetimes business was something I spent a lot of time perfecting.”
So, that goes to say that perhaps these entities are much much older souls that have been on this Earth
Because they have been on the earth, they understand suffering and therefore have more empathy.
Like us, they all have personalities and emotions as they are sentient. This is why it seems like they could be closer to one individual then another, because they can choose to form friendships and relationships just like us… because they are like us.


Also, it is really hard for most to see and hear at once.
If you want to hear more you’ll have to focus in on that and less on what you are seeing. It really helps!


Your response gives much food for thought . I would have never even imagined such a possibility so I am glad u responded…Now I have to ask myself what I would want to specialize in, and pursue that thing. Or rather, to what am I doing all this for, and for what will I apply whatever skills I learn and master…

After a number of incarnations, will we become them?

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