We created gods?

Except, I got great results without asking spirits to do anything, without even believing they exist. I do understand what you’re saying.

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I think the combination of your inferiority complex and your condescending attitude towards spirits is going to prove a great hindrance to you on your journey.

How? I am just trying to piece together the truth.

Gods and Daemons have been belittled by people from not only the Abrahamic religions, but also people from the psychological paradigm. You think a spirit wants to help somebody delusional enough to think they’re not sentient beings?

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definitely not condescending. i respect spirits.

I never claimed they were subconscious or that I believed that

The way I see it, you’re arrogant enough to assume all the favors and blessings they may bestow upon you was your own doing. Why would spirits help somebody with that kind of mentality? They like praise in exchange for help. They had this kind of relationship with humans for thousands of years.

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I have given them offerings many times. Even though I never got results from evocations.

I honestly think you need to start believing in yourself, you seem to be in quite a negative mind frame, im not saying that to attack you, i think its possible you dont even realise, you need to start believing that you can do these things like evocation astral travel, if you just keep saying you cant then you will never be able to. Most people didnt go into this beimg able to do all these thimgs it takes work and dedication, so instead of just thinking you cant tell yourself youre working on these things and as for evocation and such like keep at it and your energy will get stronger.


I’m going to make one final statement and I am done here. @Etheric_Vagabond, if you want to make any progress at all I would suggest Works of Darkness and Evoking Eternity by Koetting. Or Initiation into Hermetics and The Practice of Magical Evocation by Bardon. Either pair of books will get you there. I would lean a bit more to Bardon’s books. Acquire them and get to work.

Forget the internet. Forget he said, she said. You are spinning your wheels and wasting everyone’s time with endless armchair debates and endless theorizing. Constantly switching from one thing to another in hopes of finding the magic pill to success in these things. You lack focus and you will never get anywhere like that.


Were your requests statistically possible? Did you have this same opinion of them, based on what some douchebag thinks at the time? I told you already that your mentality can skew results.

Nope. Never even knew about this theory until I came on this forum

Then try again, or better yet, expand upon your psychic abilities, then evoke them again. If it fails, evoke again and again. Very few people have success on their first evocation, I recall Koetting talking about how he had to try multiple times too.


I have evoked many times. I have evoked everyday for a long time

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Keep at it

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But you need to change your mentality about it as i said


Take Faustus’ training advice, learn from those books. Then try.



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The best way to simplify things is like this. The universe has parts. Light is a thing that exists. We recognize it exists and we recognize that it’s one of the parts of the universe. We want to interact with it in some way. We give it human qualities so we can better relate. We can’t truly comprehend it’s form of consciousness because we have a human consciousness from a human perspective. So we connect with it and it takes on a human consciousness so it can communicate with us in a way we can understand. So it’s a 50/50 deal. It exists and we give it a human form it meets us half way and we meet it half way so we meet in the middle. We give it a name and a story that is a metaphor that explains it and we call it a god. One group of people recognize it and they give it their own name and story and another group recognize it and give it a name and story and so on untill everyone around has their version of the god of Light etc. We call it Lucifer the Aztecs call it Quetzalcoatl Egyptians call it Thoth etc and it’s story is a metaphor for both physical light and the nonphysical such as enlightenment. The light of knowledge becomes synonymous with the physical light and it’s reflected in the way we speak and think of it. This is why when you understand something you say “I see” a whole subconscious symbolism takes place and it becomes a god without superstition. The light is something that exists and knowledge and mental faculties are something that exists it’s tangible and real unlike a superstitious supposed entity like a biblical type god that there is no proof of existence but it’s more of an imaginary friend that is believed to exist based on blind faith. The thing that exists doesn’t need faith to exist it just does and because we are made of the stuff of the universe that exists it’s by default a part of us and just as its an aspect of the universe it’s also an aspect of us both individually and collectively. The thing that exists,that particular aspect or part of the universe and ourselves is called the current and the flavor or take we have on it depending on cultural or individual factors is called the mask of the current. Now this type of spirit is an interdimensional being because it exists in all dimensions of existence. It exists in the dimension of the 3d world space, time, the dimension of thought and so forth and so on and can move within and through these dimensions. Now a spirit of a dead human is a different kind of spirit and shouldn’t be confused with the greater spirit of an interdimensional being that is an aspect of our universe or the principalities.


In the book Mind and Matter by E. Schrodinger, in regards the idea of ‘whether the world would exsit if it were not being observed by an intelligent being’, one reads:

“Would it otherwise have remained a play before empty benches, not exsiting for anybody, thus quite properly speaking not exsiting?”

If something exists, it must have a causal relationship to some other thing that exists. Each thing that exists is contingent upon the existence of at least one other thing. If a thing exists alone, and has no cause/effect power on anything else, it does not properly exist.

No matter how you slice it, the only thing that ties your universe together is you. If a thing has no relationship to your observation, it does not exist.

You are the necessary being in the ontological argument, not God. If you make that adjustment, the argument holds up much better.