Very angry

I evoked Lucifuge Rofacale today. The reason for this is because i wanted to make a pact… apparently he was the “go to guy”. Anyway, I did not get a physical manifestation, however, i heard a voice/his voice.

I made my request, put my cards on the table (metaphorically speaking) and the only response i got was “I will consider it” - and nothing more. Very masculine voice - and not ‘soft’ like i’ve heard others describe him.

After that brief reply i got nothing more - atmosphere changed too - I said goodbye, however… at that point i didn’t feel/sense anything else in the room.

First impressions… very very rude i think. Anyone have similar exp with this fellow?

You’re upset that Lucifuge Rofocale, the “demon in charge of Hell’s government” and “said to be the ruler of the qliphoth Satariel” didn’t kiss up, make nice, and tell you to have a great day and here’s some coupons for a free movie?!

Oh boy, your journey through the dark arts is going to be highly entertaining to watch if you consider the response “I will consider it” to be “rude” and you get angry about it!

Seriously, what were you expecting?

You got a response, and it wasn’t “No” so I’d count that as a win - expecting elaborate courtesies from a being who exists outside any kind of framework of reality that we can comprehend seems a bit… nit-picky. :slight_smile:


Contrary to the Christian world view espoused in the Grimoires, they really are not ours to command. They have the same free will as us. They help by choice, not by command. They respect your free will, you should probably do the same.


Don’t be whiny. No one likes a whiner.


Do you think he will “consider it” with the response you gave him, after that evocation? In a weightscale, a “consideration” is very positive and should be seen as such.

What is his first impression, do you think? Lack of respect? Rude?

Whatever your pact was, some need to be planted like a seed to grow. It needs strategy to work as intended. A “Blitzkrieg” is not always in consideration to reach growth.


Dude, don’t worry! He is baiting you. Wants to test your commitment, to see if you’d lose hope and quit just after being given a vague anser. Belial did that to me and I thought less of him, taking me quite some time to realize he was goading me into taking matters into my own hand and not rely SOLELY on him for changes.

It is a test, your best bet is to summon him again with more resolve of solving stuff. He might have been “offended” (fakely, you know, to bait you) that you’d consider him your only hope or the solution to everything wrong. He wants to see some degree of cooperation and willingness to act.

See for example what Valefor told me when I asked how could I achieve perfect and instant comunication with spirits as anyone would dial a number in their cellphone:

  • His answer: “The dead are your best bet, pliant, servile and subservient if you manage to break them”. He explained he meant the unruly, powerful dead people, masters and teachers who bow to no one unless shown a mixture of respect and capacity.

  • His abridged ritual: Basically a month worth of starvation, isolation, and daily ritual, with around 3 major works during 24 hours, and no possibility of distracting the mind.

That means a whole month of no TV, no internet, nothing but you and the pervasive feeling of your own misery and confinement. Nothing but magick on your mind. Plus you’re forbidden from speaking out loud if it is not by whispers, and ONLY if you’re performing some rite. Groans are permitted.

He obviously explained that the key here was to experiment incredible depths of suffering, a pain akin to that of prisoners and lost souls. Only by becoming like them you may have mastery over them.

  • My conclusion: Well at least he was honest to tell me what to expect, and it was only then when I understood his smile. He meant to tell me I am not prepared, not in a derisive way, but to convey the knowledge that I’d need at least a month of personal time. Which sure, I can manage that, but it would mean a lot of work, from paying bills to finding a shelter to keep my dogs for that time, tying lose ends, etc…

Maybe, MAYBE that is what Lucifuge s telling you, that there is so much more than just calling him up and asking to get shit done. In my opinion you need to sit down and write on a paper ALL which you consider that must be fixed, and go step by step rather than try to get it all fixed in one go.

It would be like you having a car crash and not even bothering to have it towed to a nearby garage before calling the mechanic. Or, even worse, calling him and going “I don’t know what the fuck’s wrong with it, drop by ,my house and fix it in the same day”. The demand is kinda big.


  • Pacts are coaching programs, a “this for that” on the basis that (in Koetting’s words) the spirit will help you achieve a certain goal BUT will call you out on your bullshit and procastrination.

  • Asking things in vague terms gets you nowhere. Sure the spirit is all knowing (presumably), but it’s nice to communicate with people, isn’t it? Imagine you called a techie to fix your computer and he just takes your machine and won’t let you say what you think it’s wrong.

Imagine if he came up with a huge bill because he fixed things you didn’t want, like adding a new video card because yours is out of date, without even caring that you never wanted that in the first place.

  • Raise barriers, have exorcism compements and incantations ready in case shit goes awry. Not saying it wil, but at least shows effort from your part. Do your exercises.

  • Stock up on incenses, candles and the like, you might be asked to perform a devotional ritual at some point, and maybe more than once.

  • Do what Koetting did: For the duration of the pact work with no other spirit.

  • Open magick squares, do candle magick, novenas (9 day consequtive rituals, one per day, at the same time and place) and any ritual that is in consonance with your goals. Why? Why not? Abuse the system, spam your will into reality, AND THEN summon a spirit for the finishing touch. That way you’re sure you can’t fail.

  • Realize that some spirits don’t like certain kinds of people. Orobas hates my guts and won’t even tell me why, feels insulted when I summon him to the point he appears as a huge guy with a horse head and demonic, red eyes instead of the small horse or donkey appearance he usually adopts.

Maybe Lucifuge feels you need to merit his assistance.

  • On the same page as the former point, Azazel was kind with me at first and wanted to offer me a pact. He did not say on what terms or for what reason/objective exactly and declined. Afterwards I kept calling him for some questions, and he soon grew bored before telling me not to summon him ever again if it wasn’t for something “serious”.

On the other hand I’ve found people here on the forums that entered a pact with him and things went good, too easy good I’d dare say. The reason why he’d take them instead of me? Who knows! Maybe those peeps needed his assistance more than me, maybe they deserved it more, maybe because they took him as their patron in the sorcerous arts while I’d feel offended if Belial took me under his wing because I see (personally) that asking that from him is shameful on my behalf.

But I don’t dwell on it. Azazel told me no? Ok, maybe there is a good reason, maybe there is not, I focus on WHAT I WANT DONE, and look for alternatives.

You know, it would be like realizing your pen does not write well, and instead of grabbing another one from your desk you keep on rubbing the tip against the paper until it works. What you get in the end? An ugly job. Sure, it will work for a little while, but you’ll bee soon enough crumpling the shit out of your notebook.

All because you could not let go.

Be reminded, since we all work with demons and devils, of the 15th card of the Major Arcana in the Tarot: Attachment is the greatest evil. It is good to have a drive for success as big and strong as demons have, but it is of no use if you keep using all your force to crash head first unto a wall.

So dude, it’s ok! It happens to everyone! He said he’ll think about it? Ask him again! Go for another spirit! Don’t take it personal, the path of magick is long and seemingly endless, no point in stopping now.

As a matter of fact, you’ve done A LOT. See your friends, co-workers, family members and acquitances. WHO OF THEM CAN SAY THEY SPOKE TO AZAZEL’S TWIN? If you could do that while most of them would not even dare to think about it? Yeah, you’re already a winner, man. A fuckng star dare I say.

Now go forth and conquer.


Wow, don’t know L:.R:. very well at all, other than what i have read of him about others experiances. The one thing i can trust that i do know- from what I got from meditating on his Dukante sigil, is, he can and does see right into peoples ‘psychological processor’, the last thing I would ever do is “put my cards on the table”-(which can across to me as a -‘You will do for me, just thought i would let you know Who and what you are facing’ [I could be very wrong] I would say meditate on his Dukante sigil for a good long time- very quickly, you should see a very large Demon, standing a much smaller and insignificant to him on his head.
If it were me, and I very much do intend on a pact with him in the future- I would, work with him for a decent period of time- IF he is Happily Willing to do so, and prove to him, you are worthy of his Presence, being and Assistance, and develop a “Relationship” to the point where He Approaches you first- without summoning, and then when the concept of Pacts are brought up, you are both Intrestingly Invested in the Work. [BUT THAT IS JUST ME]- DEFERANCE and mutual Comradre Interests would be the ground i would choose to approach him on; He is not the being I would tell 'how the cow eats the cabbage" to. Yes, he Expects the Standing, Strong, Firm Honorable Front Liner- and he will to a degree ‘serve’ in a Pact to see certain tasks accomplished- but I for one would have been pretty disturbed if I walked away with the experiance you did, not at him. [ I can most certainly be wrong]
I am also of the opinion he is the type who works with people who are at what Sun Tsu would call “Death Ground”. What are you willing to loose, regardless of how small your desire? Because I would not wanna risk one jot nor tittle on my part in the way of a mistake with him. [but that is just me]
I will admit to over kill in the deferance dept. Belial has been amazing to me in bringing me out of the habitual rut I have with that- but then, He was also able to show me where I had earned not to grovel in his situation; as I am not one to just assume it.
I am clueless as to your situation- but the electric chill that waved through me when i read your post really did make me hold me breathe.
I will be looking with keen interest on your progress, because when i get to the Table with him- I want to know all what to odo, as well as what not to do- so i don’t end up the guy being stood on his head- unless it is part of the Initiatory survival part of the ritual— which it very well could be.
Thanks much for the post!

Spam your will into reality. LOL Best. Quote. Ever. And true!

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hmmm… you sound very pouty lip & stompy foot. Next time I hope you get a nice big hug!

Maybe Luci was just having a bad aethyr day.

(This post best read while listening to “Gimme Shelter” by the Rolling Stones.) :smiley:

Seriously, LE was spot on with that response. Not trying to dogpile on the OP but if you are expecting civility or gentility once you start encountering those darker frequencies it will be “rude” alright in the form of a rude awakening.

Sooner or later the serious magician gets drawn into a current and if you get pulled out far enough into those dark waters be prepared for a thrill ride through hell. Being hurled through the abyss is a psychologically brutal experience and not everyone who dares the journey makes it across to the other side. When you are submerged into those realms and feel the rug of reality being pulled out from beneath your feet you have one of two choices, sink or swim. Some drown in the current.

One of of four things often occurs once someone steps across the threshold into the Chapel Perilous:

1) Mental hospital: the person goes insane (sometimes temporarily, sometimes permanently).

2) Suicide: Once safe constructs of reality are removed and the veil is lifted allowing fragments of a darker reality to be inserted into your everyday experiences, lifelong perceptions of what is possible vs what is impossible are shattered as uncanny and disturbing events demonstrate possibilities that one would have always assumed would not be possible. Some people are overwhelmed by the current and fear they’ve been permanently trapped in the Labyrinth Sinistral and think the only way out is to take their own life.

  1. Religious conversion:They run with their tail between their legs to church screaming for Jesus to help them. The next thing you know you see them on youtube videos handing their “new age” book collection to Reverend Bonfire.

  2. Success:The initiate survives the dance across the abyss and stands on the other side of the gulf psychologically & spiritually galvanized, alchemically altered and rewarded with a gift that is perhaps best described as expansive; a personal power that one did not have prior to the undertaking.

Some stop there, glad they survived and are the better, stronger individuals for it. Some get addicted to the game and want to dive in again at some point, see where else the current takes them, becoming more expansive as a human being; evolving, mutating, gaining strength & knowledge…power.

Israel Regardie believed that everyone starting out on the path should concurrently see a psychologist/psychiatrist to help maintain mental balance as those psychological forces are being unleashed when one’s protective psychic layers are penetrated and removed through the work. I don’t know if that is necessary for everyone but it is probably not a bad idea for many neophytes who could avail themselves of something like that. Furthermore, some people would probably be far better served sitting on a therapist’s couch than with their nose in a grimoire. This stuff isn’t for everyone, and not everyone has the psychological and emotional fortitude to handle it. Once you begin to encounter the realities of occult forces, you quickly realize this ain’t kid shit.

I so love your answer! It spoke to me as well because I ve been trying to do an invocation with Lucifer twice now. I evoked him several times successfully but getting the invoke has been tricky. I was kind of hurt. But realized maybe he’s telling me to go with someone else because our energies just don’t mesh well. He’s Venus and I’ve gotten along great with Mars or Saturn energies the best. At first tho, I was thinking I had done something wrong or made him angry. But I don’t think that is the case. He may be too light for me, I’m a darker entity myself .

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I’d never seen this thread before and I get this answer from my beloved when I talk to him via telepathy… gosh there are some sensitive flowers out there!