Using angels to constrain demons?

What are your thoughts on constraining demons via angels? Do you believe there is any great benefit to it vs. going to them without?

I ask because I have actually never worked with a demon using DoM methods before, nor have I ever used angels in any sense while working with demons.

I understand the purpose for angelic constraint, protection, but not why you need this angelic protection in the first place. I don’t know if it’s necessary or not and what effect it has altogether. Is this just a personal preference for some?

Can anyone comment on experiences working with demons with vs without angelic constraint & how this effected your work?

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There’s a lot of conversations about this on here, with mixed viewed from, “it’s offensive” to “they don’t mind it’s not actually like that” to “you have to or the demons will attack you”.

It comes from the Techniques in the Key of Solomon, the set of Grimoires that bring us the Goetia, and reflects the beliefs of the times, also bearing in mind, working directly with entities that were not A List angels would get you killed by the Catholic Church.

I never do it, I use E.A. Koetting’s techniques, which are modified Solomon magick substituting myself for any other angels. I do not use DoM, but if I did I would just edit the rituals to suit me better.

I used the LBRP, which calls on angels, once simply because it’s an exercise in the Ordo Ascensum Aetrynalis book, and it made no difference to my usual clearings, but it was an awful faff and took longer than I wanted to spend.

I think it’s optional, try it and see if it works for you. If it does, keep it, if not, don’t worry about it.

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I find that the angels don’t so much constrain the demons, as they guide them. The way I understand it, from the explanation in the Demons of Magick book, is that the angels are basically the guiding hand, and it is the demons that build the details of the result.

Think of it like the angels are the architects, they set the framework, while the demons are the construction crew, who then fill in all the details. They work together, not against each other.

You can, of course, use angels to constrain demons (you can also use gods, or the head of a hierarchy, like Lucifer) but in my experience, that is rarely necessary.

I’ve evoked demons both ways, using angels and not, and I haven’t really found much difference between the two methods in terms of results, although including the angels did make the ritual flow smoother for me. I think it basically comes down to what is more comfortable for you.

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The DoM book itself explains why Angels are called, but tbh I don’t think it’s because of “protection” (I can’t remember if the author calls it “protection,” actually). It’s more like they work in harmony as a team.

The protection itself is in the opening ritual (the one with the Archangels) and the ritual to wield power, so you assume divine authority to be able to command the spirits. I only used ritual 1 (petition for results), but I’m not sure they’re featured in the other two methods.

AFAIK, demonolators consider it an offensive and unnecessary constraint. Personally, I think the author’s explanation makes sense and I see them more like they’re a complementary team.

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Well, that most certainly answered questions I had thanks for this post

Using Godnames and angels to constrain demons is a Judeochristian concept. In the GD it’s known as Spirit Actives & Passives.

The way the church uses Actives & Passives is frankly pompous and off-putting. The RHP idea is similar to the subjunctive. You invoke YHVH through Godnames, then pretend you’re Him and give the spirit present subjunctive instructions in His names. It’s dishonest and frankly kind of ridiculous.

I guess the closest counterpart to this is when you were a kid and you had to tell your sibling to shut up. If you tell them shut up, they’d fight you. But if you leave the room, come back, and tell them mom said to keep the noise down, she’s trying to sleep. They’d calm down unless they wanted a smack. THAT is the idea behind RHP Godnames and constraints: do what i say or I’M TELLING. It’s that. So yeah, no wonder it pisses you off - who respects a tattletale?

The LHP idea is more like an imperative or suggestion in grammar, where YOU give orders to the spirit and the Spirit Passive obeys your order, because you gave it. Imperative commands (direct commands) are more assertive and bossy, while suggestions (indirect commands or Milton Models) are more cooperative.

I prefer the LHP way, it’s more honest and more direct and i’ve always done it this way. Tbh when i was in church i did it this way, too. I never had time for pompous rhetoric then and i still don’t now.

With that said, if you want higher spirits to guide others, you can reverse-engineer the kabbalist hierarchy to create flat hierarchy teams by calling qlipothic spirits to organize the elements, zodiac spirits, spirits of the fixed stars, and planetary spirits to do things for you. Done right this can still work great for you because it’s a teamwork convocation instead of a simple evocation to one being.

I use the qlipoth/demon structure where i call a qlipoth spirit followed by a demon or djinn.

For example, to call Fire, Aries, and the goeti spirit Bael who is considered to rule the first decans of Aries, i’d invoke Fire by saying Ehyeh Ariton (I am Ariton), then give some of Ariton’s better qualities. I then give suggestion along the line of Let’s do this together, Ariton. Then i evoke the spirits of Aries by saying AGLA Hemethterith (the qlipothic spirit of Aries) and AGLA Sharhiel (the zodiac demon of Aries, found in column CXLIII of Aleister Crowley’s Liber 777). Then i’d ask Hemethterith and Sharhiel to call Bael to work with me on my behalf, and call Bael using AGLA Bael. At that point i’d suggest to all 3 of them to do what i want done: hey guys, LET’S do such and such. Can you help me with this?

This doesn’t command in Godnames, it’s you giving the command. But it does use Godnames as salutations and descriptors. Ehyeh is a unity descriptor for you and the Great King. AGLA is a salutation of respect: You are mighty, lord. It’s a fantastic way to say hi to a spirit because it acknowledges their authority while showing them you are not afraid. From there, giving either commands or suggestions can work in your favor, and you don’t need to say God told you so or any other such nonsense, you can speak plainly.

This is how i call demons and it has worked very well for me. Andrieh Vitimus once told me the goetics seem to like you. I have never had a negative experience with them because i’ve shown them this respect from day one, and they’ve responded to me in kind.

If you prefer doing things this way to Godname commands and spirits’ chains etc, give it a shot and see if it yields results for you

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The True Mechanics of Solomonic Magick
The Solomonic rituals are actually not trying to damage the spirits. So many Left Hand Path and Pagan people just like to dismiss Solomonic rituals because if their Abrahamic nature. But the Goetic invocation of angels is meant to maintain balance in your own temple (inner circle) while projecting the astral beings (demons) outward into the triangle from you. Angels are binding spirits of the creation spheres. So by invoking them during ritual, they help to direct energy.

These names used to “restrain” the demons into the triangle is actually symbolically directing them from your mind into the external gateway, being the brazzen vessel (the mind) and releasing the incense from it. (Which conceptually released the spirit from the mind)

The Solomonic concept of directing these demons to “building the temple” is symbolic for building the self. In Jewish esotericism, the temple is the body and the “kingdom” is your life surrounding you. So these astral beings (collective subconscious beings) are manifested from within you to change who you are (building your temple) as appropriate for accomplishing your goal. (Building the kingdom)

The prejudice towards these magick procedures from the LHP and pagan crowds is solely due to their own hate for the religious world. They want to worship these demons without actually calling it worship. So they get hung up on having utmost respect and never “commanding”, yet talk about “self-empowerment.” You need to direct and command energy to exert your own authority.

These spirits are not dumb children. They know your intentions and whether you’re just using a process or straight up trying to curse them.

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[quote=“Valesus, post:7, topic:172886”]
So they get hung up on having utmost respect and never “commanding”, yet talk about “self-empowerment.” You need to direct and command energy to exert your own authority.[/quote]

For me, respect is a matter of respecting personhood but also respecting ability. It doesn’t make any sense to condescend or speak haughtily to a spirit while asking it to do something you can’t do without their help. Any spirit that walks its talk and makes things happen in my life gets my full respect and admiration, because i know i’d never have made it without their input.

This is why i believe in being direct. I can’t stand spiritual palaver

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Essentially what black magicians are doing is revering these entities through ritual activity, however they decide to interpret their own activities. The definition of worship is generally “respect, reverence, and honors given to a higher spiritual entity.” That’s exactly what Left Hand Path people do to the infernal spirits, while often looking down on Christian and Muslim worship. :thinking:

In terms of contraints, some spirits are more inclined to be destructive and toxic than others. Even some goetia spirits, Qliphothic rulers, etc. I’m always happy to treat a spirit as a friend and mutually deal with them. But just like people, some are just more naturally erratic. And that’s where constraining methods are necessary.

I’ve had conflict with certain infernal rulers, but some Left Hand Path people would say those spirits treat them very well and have no problems. That’s cool. But again like people, they treat different people differently, and can treat a human nicely because they are an opportunity for them. (They see reasons to work with them) As much as Left Hand Path people love thinking the infernal are so genuine, the infernal are in fact very opportunistic. So enforcement methods are required if made necessary.

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I honesty have done the same way as well, both with angels and without and I got a really, really dark yet majestic experience without protection, really intense, tbh.

Back in November 2023,I did a petition ritual + contact and channeling for Sallos to make 2 named people catch feelings with each other. Gotten their names and DOBs. Well, I wasn’t aware of DOM that time, but I am here at the forum, dont have an acccount yet here that time, but I love spending my free time here. On seeing EA’s Incantations, then I decided, I think his incantation for summoning forth the entity would be good for me as well that time I discovered them. The names and dob were prepped up, Sallos’ sigil on the back of the paper with their names then I began the work. I wont go deep in the process, but holy crap, once I have done the incantation to summon forth , repeating his enn mentally while looking at the sigil, I must say that there suddenly is a really heavy dark and heavy presence that weighed down on my chest then I was friggin spoked then he roamed around me then sitting beside me to my right. Then we made the deal and I have let him take over me for a while, channeling him, the desire and such. Well the ritual was a success, like the client updated me lots of stuff. That was my first evocation and Sallos was my first demon that I have successfully evoked. Still gives me the wonder and amazement how I accomplished that.

Now, having a copy of DOM, I must say that yeah, they are much more relaxed when you contact them as prescribed on the book, but still, they yield results and IDK, without angels, its really draining and intense, with angels, less drain, but to each and to his own.

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On my experience, giving them respect and honor is always a part of my rituals, regardless of the spirits lineage. I do treat them that they are allies that can help you and a relationship with them should be mutual, and yeah i do agree that constrains should be done when necessary. You’ll never know what might happen

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Great words! Especially the last part. Well put and well said

Certainly not the first topic and discussion about this. But there’s a lot of great replies with food for thought. Thanks to all the repliers and the extensive explanations!

As a relative newbie black magician, but throwing myself all-in and with a firm and decades long experience in a RHP-ish tradition. I would like to mention the following things:

LHP occultists and black magicians looking down on christian, muslim or just general RHP systems and spirits has nothing to do with the path itself. I am not defending either side. Though I am aware of my own bias in both directions. But it usually has more to do with unresolved first hand and second hand religious trauma. In some cases the age old tribal war consideration (that primal feeling that to belong to one group, you have to demonize the other group)

Although the overall difference between RHP and LHP is minimal and more of a philosophical nature. One tangible difference between the two. Or rather more the difference between mystics and occultists leaning towards celestial or infernal. Is the type of “energyfield” we work with. Working out of the light- or dayside" gives me some benefits, but that connection has always been very fragile for me. On the other hand, if you are more “dayside” inclined. Working with “the nightside” can be a lot more dangerous and you would need more protection and balance working with chthonic or infernal entities. The fun part is that most spirits are not really that black.and white ^^. Most important is considering what kind of connection you are considering and to approach the entity accordingly.

My own experience in working with the darker sides of the spiritworld is that in a lot of cases working on myself and making sure I am balanced and able to work on whatever the chaotic energies I open the gates to shake loose, seems enough in most cases to guard myself with my own power and authority when working with demons and the darker deities. Since my developed energy body corresponds more with infernal and chthonic.
In exceptional cases I’d have to call on the entities I have a tighter connection with to aid me.

Recently I’ve given myself over to the Hecatean (primal craft) current and that works a weeeee little bit like the Solomonic system in most cases of evocation but just not with celestial energies. In that, you guard yourself with an energetic “cloak of Hecate” and you call forth Cerberus to guard your circle.

I have yet to use the Demons of Magick book because there’s so many steps, I dont know what the angels are, and I’m too lazy to do it all.

I summon with Baal Kadmons method from his 72 goetia course, without the angelic names, he has a version in the same course to use them though.

I had this doubt in my mind that I should at least try the DoM method so I just combined them both without the angels and bible verses. Baal Kadmon has you place an offering upfront, and DoM has you offer an experience or praise later, so if I offered a steak or liquor, after the ritual, I will enjoy my own serving of the offering. :man_shrugging:

I got DOM honestly its one of hardest systems to comprehend, its so complex makes your head spin makes me to not use it at all, one thing that doesnt make sense to me is GOM are known to make magick easier like thats what made them famous for their other books, but this book is a condratiction to that, why so hard and complex when it comes to goetia, gordon doesn’t expain either like this is way harder than a simple banishing, going into trance, evoking/invoking, making a offering and closing the ritual

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Interesting topic, but what about the heavy-weights, like Astaroth, Asmodeus, Belial???..has anyone had experience with them and the angels???

I think they would think the angel stuff is “cute” and let you do your thing. Ive always heard of people having good results with Belial from the DoM book.

I read today from a lhp yogi guy I follow on patreon that yahweh rules this matrix, at least for now, and a balanced magician has to acknowledge the hierachy and protocols. So I guess be balanced in a way? He explained it a lot better but said we can turn away from yahweh 100% and his obsession with maintaining “order.”

I would just be chanting hebrew words that I don’t really believe in, and I really like the alphabet and how the words look though. :slight_smile:

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In my experience, they don’t really seem to care. They just want to be summoned, and the how doesn’t much matter to them. However, in their respective mythologies, they are said to have been angels that fell, so they can actually be summoned using angelic methods. Someone once posted quite a while ago about their explorations in using angelic chants to evoke the 72 spirits of the Goetia.

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It’s not that the DoM is complex. It’s that the way Gordon explains it in the book is very convoluted.

I will never understand why magicians in general write instructions in the most scatterbrained way, writing things out of order, deliberately putting errors where accuracy is necessary, often going on tangents about things that mean little to nothing while giving important info in passing, or failing to mention it at all. This is common in magickal writing and i really don’t understand why people keep doing that.

Basically, DoM is a variation of the GRP with a Spirit Active invocation of the angels and Spirit Passive evocation to the demon.

When you put the instructions in their proper order, the technique is pretty straightforward.

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That’s definitely interesting, what are your sources of information to create this? I like this because I never been interested in using god names either. It does sound like a tattle tell lol.