Unity without a Unit

I understand that there seems to be too much discord among us.“Us” meaning the Occult community in general.In E.A. Koetting’s works there is always mention if this.Rhp Religious Groups have survived and endured as they usually Unify whereas the Black Magician is solitary for the most part but I really do not understand.If I could,I’d love to hear what others have to say.On this Forum I haven’t seen nor experibbeced Any Judgement and have been welcomed…However,If we do not agree to disagree regarding how something should be done,And work on changing our reality more unified we might not fare so well…

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Im working on such thing even as we speak.

At least for the area and region that Im living in.

It may not be much, but its a start. You’re not the only one whom thinks this.

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“Unity” is something I did a post about a while ago, I’ll copy below a slightly updated version of my take on the concept:


I generally agree that a little less petty backstabbing and a little more mutual support would be helpful, amongst people who do magick, or who follow magico-religious paths like paganism and Wicca. There are many people who wish to see us silenced, or dead, after all.

However, the concept of making “unity” paramount, at the cost of the freedom to disagree and march to the beat of one’s own drummer, is a dangerous path, and one much-beloved of would-be prophets and cult-leaders.

Aka, those who want to lead a mass of sheep, eagerly policing each other for thoughtcrimes, stamping out individuality and free-thinking, and who violently silence anything that challenges their precious groupthink.

I have faith most people have no intention of that when discussing unity, but the concept leads so readily towards it that I have to add a counterpoint.

For that reason, personally I’d go with tolerance, which means tolerating (not approving of, but neither, attempting to eradicate, invalidate, or shout down) the views and practices of fellow occultists which one happens personally not to share, as a healthy model for the wider community, as it has been on here.

Magick – if it’s not to become mere religion, or cultlike – is about experimentation, about peer-review (which can, and should, include constructive criticism), and about no concept being off-limits for rational exploration, and as such, feathers will be ruffled from time to time, corns stepped upon, and sacred cows tipped over – this is healthy, natural, and the foundation stone of freedom.

From Odin’s solitary quests to Set, wandering in the desert; from The Fool to The Hermit of Tarot, through the history of glorious lunatics that we read and speak of today, conscious conformity and limiting oneself to the then-contemporary morals have never been hallmarks of the magician.

Magicians are the chaos element, the disruptor, the outsider. Which is what the world needs on a regular basis!

But this is not compatible with unity, or any kind of oversight designed to ensure everyone has the same experiences, shares the same ideas, and so on.

Individuality and freedom (and personal power) never sit well with calls to value unity above all else, because if unity becomes the only thing that matters, then the nail that sticks out MUST be hammered down, lest that unity be disturbed. :cop:

Is that REALLY where we want to go, when “Hoe your own row, and let me hoe mine in equal freedom” could prevent such a thing?

All kinds of freedoms are under constant attack, online and off, and it’s almost always conducted under a mask of benevolence: for the greater good, for the children, for the weak, the suffering, the easily-offended, and so on.

I don’t think that, as magicians, we can afford to start sacrificing our individuality, no matter how high a price we pay in having to (gasp) see things we personally disagree with, from time to time.

If that creates DISUNITY, so be it - the alternative is for magick to be reduced, one very-reasonable step at a time, to a dogmatic cult little different than any major religion. And honestly, fuck that! :laughing:

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Well…E.A. Has some videos…Online discussions which opened my eyes to it.I haven’t seen such bickering; The exception would be that I have seen it among the RHP.I haven’t seen so many argue over nothing.I’m not angered however these things disturb me too much.We can change things for the better with our power…but these individuals…I’m never one to ever say what anyone else is doing is wrong.I do not believe that even exists…(right or wrong)So if fighting, the Magickal Wars …all of it doesn’t stop,how are we going to bring about anything without the drive for it after fighting and draining each other…?
It makes me feel so sad.

But, what are we trying to bring about? :thinking:

I mean I did a bigger critical post above but it’s important to know the end goal before deciding Something Needs Doing™ - are we trying to make the whole world believe as we do?

How isn’t that just the new boss, being the same as the old boss? :wink:

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Anyone and everyone in this realm should should believe what they desire to.I don’t know what as a whole others are trying to bring about but I actually believe I just would rather see people get along better…

What do you think are the main reasons they don’t get along all the time? :slight_smile:

I meant Positive results When I said “Bring about”.Bring about Positive results instead of negative ones however It is just something that bothers me.I can only speak for myself.So it is up the the individual what anyone else wants to bring about.I myself would enjoy bringing about or bring in a new way of life for the rest of my life and enhance other’s lives as well if my actions do so…

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You really are amazing.I appreciate this greatly.Thank you so much…I agree and didn’t think about all of those points that even

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Got it - energy spent duelling is not energy spent making an awesome life, for sure. I think one of the strengths this forum has, which is lacking in some others, is the focus on results, so if people have different beliefs about the nature of reality, or whether such-and-such god etc exists, we can (and do) talk about that, but the main emphasis is on results from magick, not theory.

So, if someone has a weird belief system they can easily share results they got and methods they use, for peer-testing by othersm and from that, attain respect, instead of endless arguing over unverifiable ideas. :thinking:

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I am not sure…But getting along “all” of the time? I recognize though it is possible,highly improbable
If not fight I am not sure what else they’d do

I must retire for a while.It is 4:38 am EST. U.S. and I am physically exhausted.I will be back later and would enjoy continuing this conversation in a little while.Until then Have a pleasant day/night

Beautifully said :heart:

And this is exactly why unity is not needed.

We might not even agree on what is a positive result and what isn’t.

How I see it, many people who walk the LHP CHOSE to walk it alone. It is the embodiment of individuality. Sure, it is good not to be too isolated and talk to other people, with other experiences and beliefs. But the reason of this communication is not unity, it is personal growth.

What we call now the “LHP” has basically survived for thousands of years. Without unity.

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I don’t believe that is incorrect. Historically speaking, humans have always unified in groups. First it was families, then it was tribes, then it was societies. The unity of groups allows for a far greater chance of survival.

Shamans, arguably the first magicians of the human species to arise, were surrounded and protected by their tribe, without which they would have most likely perished. Witches have traditionally had covens. Ceremonial magicians of all stripes have had orders and lodges. Religions have had priest hoods.

Like minded people have always banded together, and that includes the so-called black magician. Where do you think the notion of cabals, or the Illuminati as some global spanning puppet masters come from? There is incredible power in unity, and humans have used that power for both great accomplishment, and great atrocities, throughout history.

The rugged individualism of modern LHP is a relatively new phenomenon, in my opinion, one borne out of the “Enlightenment” and the complete rejection of religion. Once the threat of torture and death was removed, the need of groups for survival became less necessary, and thus the individual practitioner was born.

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Yeah what you say is true, I can’t deny that.
I was talking about something different though, or maybe I understood the term “unity” differently.

I was referring to individuals who go their own path, and stay (more or less) alone. I was thinking about the way my very ancestors chose to live.
Ofc they banded together, passed their experience and knowledge on to the next generation etc. Otherwise it would most probably have been lost.

I understood “unity” here more as “unifying them all” which is a concept I don’t think has ever happened, nor I think is necessary.

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Unity doesn’t have to mean “thinking alike.” It can, and most often has been, something as simple as uniting towards a common goal. It’s how the Greeks repelled the Persians, and how Germany conquered Europe, just people of all sorts united towards one thing.

You are correct, though, that it is virtually impossible to unify everyone, even through coercive measures. However, history shows that you don’t need everyone, just enough of them.

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If it is only geared toward black magick then such a pursuit, as @anon10524665 said, is unnecessary and a waste of time without a grand goal to work toward.

You say you desire “unity”, @Tarable, but you do not, for me at least, do an adequate job of explaining why. I cannot get behind ideas which stem from the desire to “make the world a better place” (which is what I am interpreting) because everyone has a different idea of what constitutes a “better world”, so it is a nice talk and everything but it is utterly meaningless.

If unity is used as a method to cope with nihilism, and ultimately depression and pessimism, because in my opinion one who possesses the aforementioned cannot maintain their existence on a long term basis without someone or something to live for and through, then unity is exceptionally important. But in order for that to happen, some individuality has to be sacrificed, which is an act I have no problem committing (for those I respect and thus value) but it is something of a taboo to place individuality second in black magick.

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I like the idea of Fellowship more than Unity. It suggests a gathering of those with common interests, not goals or doctrine. It allows individual freedom to pursuit individual goals yet allows a space for others to discuss topics of interest or a support system amongst smaller groups within in a way that can inspire further development. It all depends how it is run in the end. Fellowship tends to last a life time, where unity usually ends either when the goal has been achieved or it has became so corrupt that splinters form.

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I agree with what everyone on here is pretty much saying.

I’m trying to start a regional group as something that compelled me through observation here. People, though, whom tend to be isolating themselves; still yearn for interaction.

Otherwise, this forum would be completely empty.

I seen an opportunity to, in a sense, give people the opportunity to enact their own sense of unity.

Connor Kendall, in a nonchalant way, inspired me to go about creating this group to better coordinate events for those whom wish to do multi point rituals geared towards specific goals.

I’m hoping that the group will maybe go a step further and help tackle each other’s issues in life with joint ritual conduct and magicks.

Much like a support group, but with the members going about such things on their own accord.

Some of the members on this forum also would like to meet up face to face as well.

Though I would probably caution them to do so at their own discretion for obvious safety reasons.

If the group does start to get out of hand though, I promise I will pull the plug on it.

Though I’m sure I would receive alot of heat from it, I’m hoping that this won’t be the case to begin with.

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I live for myself and Unity meaning Uniting Myself with Myself as I’ve seen myself incomplete and lacking in life.Not for a better world.I want a better world for ME and everyone decides what their better world will be.“Better” World?To me there is and isn’t things and there is a balance in the middle of what is and isn’t.What I was talking about a thing to do with any Pessimism or Depression…I do not think Nihilistically…