To the Right or the Left?

I understand that there are two different definitions of RHP and LHP used by occultists today.

The older (and from what I can tell original) definitions come to us through the old Yoga/Tantric schools and define the RHP (Dakshinachara) as the path of escaping Maya (the illusory realty) so one can exist in the true reality, while the LHP (Vāmamārga) was for those who sought to break taboos of their religions and try to incorporate the Maya into their being and thus have a measure of control over it.

It wasn’t until the late 1800’s that LHP came to mean sinister. Madame Blavatsky started using the term LHP (tying it to a passage in the New Testament) to denote “sinister, black magic, and evil”.

I’ve noticed that most people will use the latter definitions while proclaiming themselves a “Left Hand Path Magician”, or “Follower of the Left Hand” but seem to shun Christianity which in this case defines their path to a degree.*

It would seem to me that those who follow the modern definitions of LHP should use another term. What do you all think?

Personally I think both paths are a trap, but that’s another topic.

  • dear gods I am NOT trying not to start a flame war about Christianity. I am just pointing out that using a term set, in part, by Christian Doctrine is not internally consistent with those who hate and revile against Christianity.

English (including American English) is chock full of loan words and things that changed meaning over time, so no, I think that the definition laid out in Stephen Flowers’ book Lords Of The Left-Hand Path is the one we tend to aspire towards, rather the “same old Union via a slightly different route” or whatever.

(I posted about this issue before, here, but not with reference to the specific points you made.)

Essentially, the left-hand path is the path of non-union with the objective universe. It is the way of isolating consciousness within the subjective universe and, in a state of self-imposed psychic solitude, refining the soul or psyche to ever more perfect levels. The objective universe is then made to harmonize itself with the will of the individual psyche rather than the other way around. Where the right-hand path is [i]theocentric[/i] (or certainly alleocentric: "other centred"), the left-hand path is [i]psychecentric[/i], or soul/self-centred. Those within the left-hand path may argue over the nature of this self/ego/soul, but the idea that the individual is the epicentre of the path itself seems undisputed. An eternal seperation of the individual intelligence from the objective universe is sought in the left-hand path. This amounts to an immortality of the independent self-consciousness moving within the objective universe, and interacting with it at will.

Source: “Lords Of The Left-Hand Path” by Stephen Flowers

He covers the entire span from the roots of the term as “Vāmācāra (Sanskrit: वामाचार, Sanskrit pronunciation: [ʋɑːmɑːcɑːrə]) is a Sanskrit term meaning “left-handed attainment” and is synonymous with “Left-Hand Path” or “Left-path” (Sanskrit: Vāmamārga)” (Wikipedia) through to modern-day “Set as isolate consciousness” and self-deification, so this term isn’t taken idly, or with ignorance to its origins.

Also, under this definiton, you don’t have to work with demons, baneful magick, any of that - you can work in a cat sanctuary as a healer and still be LHP, in fact he briefly talks about the number of LHP people who work for the good of animals in that very book.

Sinister is the literal word FOR left-handed, so there’s also a clear link between left-handed and, well, sinister magick, and it has nothing to do with Xianity - it’s Latin: latin.campus.nd.edu.

Magick is very directionist (new cause for the SJWs!) - deosil has always been the positive, auspicious direction, widdershins the negative, banishing direction.

As for what’s an original meaning, prior to the crushing advent of monotheism, most cultures accepted some degree of godhood to exist for their Kings, at least, they also evidently felt an investment in this for themselves (the Pyramids for example were NOT built by slaves), they all aspired to a good afterlife and/or to live on through their descendents and their reputation, so there was less of a need for a term to mean making your subjective reality into the objective, because people were usually trying to do that anyway - it would be like having a term today for “wants to have a financial income” which most of us just take for granted is what people DO.

So, along with what I typed in the lengthier post linked above, I think we’ve pretty much claimed it and own it, by now.

JMO. :slight_smile:

I think it’s worth noting here that the old yogic/tantric concepts of left and right hand path were drastically different from the modern ones. The dualistic idea of benevolent and sinister didn’t come about till the 1800s, Dakshinachara and Vāmamārga we’re both regarded as equally valid paths to enlightenment, yogis simply chose them based on personal preference. Once a practitioner of either path reached a certain level of enlightenment they lost all sense of dualism, and saw both paths as equally perfect. To put that in modern day terms, nonsensical concepts such as good and evil are formed on the astral, once you get past there you lose a concept of dualism.

Great question, great answers. Don’t be hangin’ out an aurora Ave Orismen, ain’t nothing but Cogs old hook ups live down there :stuck_out_tongue:

[quote=“Orismen, post:1, topic:8455”]I understand that there are two different definitions of RHP and LHP used by occultists today.

The older (and from what I can tell original) definitions come to us through the old Yoga/Tantric schools and define the RHP (Dakshinachara) as the path of escaping Maya (the illusory realty) so one can exist in the true reality, while the LHP (Vāmamārga) was for those who sought to break taboos of their religions and try to incorporate the Maya into their being and thus have a measure of control over it.

It wasn’t until the late 1800’s that LHP came to mean sinister. Madame Blavatsky started using the term LHP (tying it to a passage in the New Testament) to denote “sinister, black magic, and evil”.

I’ve noticed that most people will use the latter definitions while proclaiming themselves a “Left Hand Path Magician”, or “Follower of the Left Hand” but seem to shun Christianity which in this case defines their path to a degree.*

It would seem to me that those who follow the modern definitions of LHP should use another term. What do you all think?

Personally I think both paths are a trap, but that’s another topic.

  • dear gods I am NOT trying not to start a flame war about Christianity. I am just pointing out that using a term set, in part, by Christian Doctrine is not internally consistent with those who hate and revile against Christianity.[/quote]

Since when do you have to pick a side other than your own or believe in any of that bullshit to be LHP?

Most of us like to define ourselves in opposition to others, which is kind of common and normal in most communities that shares a specific topic. But is it a necessity to do so? I don’t think so.

There’s always people, including myself, that are standing with one foot on shore and the other foot in the water with a different point of view.

Can you be on the Left Hand Path and care for others more than your individual development? Sure you can. Can you be on the Right Hand Path with an egotistical mindset, without worshipping a monoteistic deity? Yes, you can. But others might question you for seeing things differently.

And if Christian priests and Popes can summon demons for personal gains, and Satanists doing Angelic evocations, who are we to judge what others define their own paths in magic?

I am at a Point in my Magickal learning , where for me all those Term, Label etc… Dont serve me anymore, For me, Left Hand Path, Right Hand Path, Religion, Magick, etc… Are one and the same, I came to a Point in my Personal research and learning were i discovered(for myself) that those Label are only Divising us, instead of Uniting us, Most often, when talking with Other about my ‘‘Path’’ i nearly dont want to refer myself to a Magician, i prefer to say that i am a Human Being, for me that is sufficient.

But sometime for the good sake of the conversation i had to ‘‘put a label’’ on myself so other understand what i’m talking about, thus i use the Label : Magician.

Sinister Yogis is also a great read to get the idea of how they were viewed in their own lands. Dangerous, cunning, Dionysus like, ect. Not the humble sage made out to be in the west.

[quote=“Lady Eva, post:2, topic:8455”]

Essentially, the left-hand path is the path of non-union with the objective universe. It is the way of isolating consciousness within the subjective universe and, in a state of self-imposed psychic solitude, refining the soul or psyche to ever more perfect levels. The objective universe is then made to harmonize itself with the will of the individual psyche rather than the other way around. Where the right-hand path is theocentric (or certainly alleocentric: “other centred”), the left-hand path is psychecentric, or soul/self-centred. Those within the left-hand path may argue over the nature of this self/ego/soul, but the idea that the individual is the epicentre of the path itself seems undisputed. An eternal seperation of the individual intelligence from the objective universe is sought in the left-hand path. This amounts to an immortality of the independent self-consciousness moving within the objective universe, and interacting with it at will.

Source: “Lords Of The Left-Hand Path” by Stephen Flowers

[/quote]

Hmmmm… well in that context, how about this.

In a fractal reality with turtles as far as you can see in either direction, the RHP is scaling upwards towards the bigger picture, and the LHP is scaling downwards towards the smaller. Both bring you to the same place.

It would explain why there’s no functional difference between service to self and service to others.

I am totally into the rhp and I like the lhp

My question is why are we looking to the past to define our future understandings? I mean people were fucking retards back then compared to what we know and do now.

If both options seek to unite with source then it sounds pretty biased to me…I mean WHAT IF the Left Hand Path was something that evolved over time and couldn’t really be cultivated until people became ready for it?

I really hate how people look at these “masters” from the past like they knew everything. I mean that pretty much says you’re not in control whatsoever because anything you do come across has to be defined by someone other than yourself. It’s like why is it so hard for people to define shit for themselves???

Here’s a serious answer though. I’m not RHP or LHP. I’m me and it’s my path. I’m gonna do what I want and I don’t give a fuck about a God or any kind of source because I’m a responsible person who knows his own limits. I will seek out my own happiness and fulfillment or die trying. And every day is a good day because I’m living my life in the present. It’s all about what I can do right now to improve my situation. So, I’m fucking fantastic and there’s always room for growth/better things :slight_smile: And if that makes me LHP because people see me as opposite, so be it. I don’t care because I’m me and I don’t need some master to define my success or level of happiness.

The modern-day LHP doesn’t, we just took the term from a path that in some cases did that.

You can merge back “up” into the One, Manifold & Void “All” or you can find ways to bring that power here. LHP is the latter. RHP’ers don’t like it coz “ego,” and “greater good” and so on.

I mean WHAT IF the Left Hand Path was something that evolved over time and couldn't really be cultivated until people became ready for it?

THIS is what I think, people in the past largely didn’t even know to wash their hands before doing sugery on someone, I think there may have been an era when people had magickal power that would set us reeling BUT that era almost certainly wasn’t the classical era we know about - for example, the ancient Pharoahs, probably the guys (in most dynasties) with THE tip-top access to magicko-religious help and medicines, still a lot of them lived miserable lives with gum abcesses that I could probably treat in a patient, because I understand germ theory and what natural substances are antiseptic, etc.

I know I’ve ranted about this before on here, but I just wanted to draw it over into this thread… we’ve been systematically guilted over our civilisation in the west, our access to resources, and most recently the global warming scare, to the extent we think some guy with rotten teeth in a 15th century garret carefully rationing his candles must have known more than us.

I don’t buy it - and NONE of my spirits have ever implied anything of the kind, they’re all about the future, about evolution and pushing the boundaries.

Oh and a while ago I watched a documentary, I can’t remember the details but I remember one section about the Apis bull, and the narrator quoted an ancient Egyptian author stating that people of a few centuries ago were ignorant, and praising progress, and the quote didn’t contain any apologies or disclaimers - it sounded like it was a reasonably common idea back then, that progress exists and is desirable.

And this from a culture so OCD they retained the same artistic canons for millenia! (That, I admire, btw. :wink:

I bet those guys would look at the material paradise even the poorest of us lives in right now (we who have leisure and net access to read this, and survived minor childhood aliments which killed so many in ther past) and want to slap us around the head for fixing our vision mostly backwards.

Ah, a morning rant, feels much better! :smiley:

I more or less share the same view points of the modern LHP. Plus, I’ve had some experiences that would imply that there’s an option to exist entirely separate from source after death. I really believe if the ego is strong enough in an individual that the self will live on in the astral until they choose to reincarnate. This is something separate from loosing control or rolling the dice and hoping for the best outcome from something that doesn’t care.

Also, someone doesn’t need to bring power down from the infinite to have power. All you have to do is take it…This is why I think vampirism is an essential tool for lhp sorcerers who want to exist separate from the dictator deity who demands that you give up all being.

But yeah, I totally agree with you Lady Eva. Nice Rant!!

People can TOTALLY do that, I’ve actually seen it happen, by which I mean both with psychopomp work where I’ve alwaked through the post-death process with people, and also, doing healing on someone and seeing that they’d done this from past lives.

Plus, Varnaxis!

Also, someone doesn't need to bring power down from the infinite to have power. All you have to do is take it...This is why I think vampirism is an essential tool for lhp sorcerers who want to exist separate from the dictator deity who demands that you give up all being.

If you take the Kybalion model, which I hold to be true based (again) on experience so far, there is NO desire in the mind of the All for us to reabsorb outrselves like failed kitten fetuses - that’s pure “demi-urge”/whatever bullshit.

It’s possible that the Hindu version was a scam, for example - the higher-ups found that if you let go JUST enough of this world as “real” you can merge back into your true higher nature, and begin to command reality like a daydream, but they disguised this as a religious imperative and with time, it grew accretions of sanctimonious stuff, getting even worse in the already-trolled west where people thought they were fallen and damned anyway, and had all kinds of self-hate and hangups.

The Bhagavad Gita is an exemplary work on retaining the awareness of self as Self, while also, acting - violently, and in defiance of conventional morality - in this world.

The All, taken from my experiences anyway, literally has no moral imperatives or desires, until it becomes manifest (us) in which case it possesses all of them at once, from the holiest to the basest, so there is no “God” in the sense of a moral arbiter, or any desire except a vague tendency towards experiencing as much life, variety, and complexity as possible.

So we in no way defy some kind of paternalistic “Source” that’s watching us with scowling eyes when we go LHP and seek godlike powers - in fact, inasmuch as it desires anything, it would desire this for us, since we’re just thoughts in its own mind anyway - we ARE of it, and among it, and creating our own realities FROM it - there’s nothing external except what we perceive to be so, through habit force and various other principles. :slight_smile:

It’s One (the only force in creation), Manifold (us!) and also Void - there is No Thing. So it’s not really going to care either way if we masturbate to goat porn, or try to become gods, since desire is external (there must be an object or state to BE desired, outside the current one).

At least, that’s been my model, Kybalion model, etc., so far - and most of all when I work it, it works for solid results! :slight_smile:

Just to be clear with everyone I just wanted to say that a lot of the things I say should be taken as metaphoric. For instance, I don’t believe in a bastard dictator deity but I do believe in a source that isn’t concerned with me. And if I was to merge with this source permanently I know that it would be the end of me because I would loose my identity and become the collective all.

I understand that this gnosis is there and it can be experienced. I’ve been there and done that shit. Now I reject it and act as if it never existed because I find more pleasure by indulging in what is real v.s. letting go and dissolving into madness.

Imo, I think the best system out there that defines LHP magick and self preservation is the ToV’s teachings. That stuff brings some real control into your life. And I’m talking about a whole new level here if you’re able to make their stuff work. Anyways that’s enough of that… I don’t blab about everything here. lol

I’m tempted to say that the essential abyssal gulf stretching between them lies in the fact that those on the Left Hand Path differentiate and individuate to a degree often defying overly simplified classification, while those on the Right Hand Path are full of the strangest convictions about what they believe the LHP and its adherents to do and be - one such strange conviction being that the LHP must essentially define itself in terms of the opposition to (a “one and only”) ‘God’/(one portion of)‘the Universe’/(mundane)‘Nature’, certainly the habitual lens whose image (potential distortions and all) followers of the RHP have tended to conflate with the Whole itself.

This tends to remind me of the subversive designation of traditionalists as “reactionaries”, as if their entire existence were only the passive reaction to the various revolutions and disintegrations rather than a greatly anterior worldview much closer to the Whole.

Monotheism, and its more underhanded secular successor-ploys that are essentially the same in origin and consequence, is a relatively new and, from an LHP perspective, hopefully relatively brief phenomenon in our overall history when it comes to the Whole. As if such a rich philosophy and practice could be defined only in relation to such a thing, as in the RHP!

Of course, people without the desire to see more of the Whole aren’t going to ‘get’ this, but - what about them? Let them toil away, below! The RHP desires to serve something, and the LHP desires to realize Vision. Let us get along, without the anti-human and really anti-divine destiny-sabotage of the forces which have appropriated the RHP’s allegiance for the most recent of our millennia!

[an other opinion, that’s all]

This is pretty much how I sum up “LHP”. It’s free of labels, divisions, etc. It’s about using any entity or energy to get you through the day, and bring about the changes you desire. It’s about living your life free of dogma, stigma, and doctrine. I don’t view myself as being in opposition to anything, rather I embrace everything, because ya never know what will work, and if you don’t try, you never will.

As to the reunion with Source thing, maybe that’s how you “lose” the game? Maybe “winning” the game means you make yourself equal to Source, and then you get to create your own Multiverse, and populate it, and watch it grow? Maybe reunion is the “safe bet”, and only gets you endlessly spun back into this Multiverse for being such a pussy?

This is pretty much how I sum up “LHP”. It’s free of labels, divisions, etc. It’s about using any entity or energy to get you through the day, and bring about the changes you desire. It’s about living your life free of dogma, stigma, and doctrine. I don’t view myself as being in opposition to anything, rather I embrace everything, because ya never know what will work, and if you don’t try, you never will.

As to the reunion with Source thing, maybe that’s how you “lose” the game? Maybe “winning” the game means you make yourself equal to Source, and then you get to create your own Multiverse, and populate it, and watch it grow? Maybe reunion is the “safe bet”, and only gets you endlessly spun back into this Multiverse for being such a pussy?[/quote]

You can’t become equal to “the source” as I define it at least, not without becoming it, because the source is the spirit of everything including you. Becoming equal to the source means becoming equal to yourself, but you can’t do that without becoming it because there can only be one spirit of everything. To have something that is truly apart from that would mean having something that isn’t included in everything.

Hate to say it, but your opinion is wrong. Not even your opinion, but your premise and understanding of merging with the Source is wrong.

If you pick up Yoga of Power by Julius Evola and read to understand it, you’ll understand the goal of the Right Hand Path.

You can walk a balance of realising (making real) your own non-differentiation WHILE retaining individuated ego (your “everyday” you) - thereby commaning the powers of “God” (no J/C malarkey implied) whilst in a human body.

Of course, by the time you do this, you have to accept that life is a kind of game, illusion, projection, call it what you will, and that there is No Thing, but if you can keep your shit together after that, you can actually do these things.

I speak from personal experience, and lots of falling off the balance bar, all of which I’ve been posting about on this forum, since my earliest posts on here in 2013 - getting better at it now though! :slight_smile: