To do or not to do

General Discussion
1

There is an axiom in the rooms of AA which goes like this:

“If you want what I got, you have to do what I do.”

So I’m reading the threads of this and other forums. I am seeing a lot of “you don’t have to’s”.
“You don’t have to do that. . . "
Or "you don’t actually need that. . . "
Funny. So these things the Mages (who wrote the grimoires) share aren’t necessary? Really? One can just sit on the couch and develop relationships with gods, spirits and the dead? No links, no tools, a thought will suffice? Hmmmmmm. I don’t think so. Nature just does not function like that. If it doesn’t rain, the crops don’t grow. Them’s the facts. Period.

I have studied intensively over the years. I have sat naked under the Full Moon in an open field in January doing a 15th century ritual as my entry into the Craft. I’ve buried many things at “my” crossroads. I have gone out in the middle of the night doing workings in the places of power. In the rain, cold and dark facing fear of all sorts I made my introduction and offerings to the “spirits of place”. Meeting the Gods, Spirits and even Death face to face where they live and act.

To get what the teacher, author or grimoire is offering, you have to do it. The doing is the teaching. The experience is the teaching. The DOING. The doing is the Craft. Otherwise, you are just an academic theorizing what might be or a dreamer. Dreaming of things to come, never actually doing anything more than thinking about the things. Personalizing a ritual for me means changing something minor to suit my taste or intent.

It isn’t easy, the doing. It takes effort. It’s difficult. It’s supposed to be, difficult. It takes commitment. It’s work. Hence why “rituals” and “spells” are called “works”. Make the commitment. Do the work, meet the Gods and spirits where they reside. Go. Go into the fields, forests and other places of Power where they can be found and experienced.

“If you want what I got, you have to do what I did.”

Oh, and I’m looking for the grimoire that has me summoning spirits and manifesting my every desire from the altar of my couch.

1 Like
2

Agreed, doing the work is the biggest part of it, from the energy you use making and collecting tools and implements to sitting there doing meditations and exercises when you’d rather be doing something else or doing a ritual for x amount of days when you don’t feel like it. If it was easy everyone would do it.

Post a spell or ritual and I guarantee someone will ask “Do I REALLY have to do this?” or “Can I substitute this for that?”

3

I agree with this. Though I am one for innovation and customization, that only comes after you have internalized the lessons in the system and after you built the realtions with the spirits.

4

[quote="-TWF-, post:2, topic:2342"]Agreed, doing the work is the biggest part of it, from the energy you use making and collecting tools and implements to sitting there doing meditations and exercises when you’d rather be doing something else or doing a ritual for x amount of days when you don’t feel like it. If it was easy everyone would do it.

Post a spell or ritual and I guarantee someone will ask “Do I REALLY have to do this?” or “Can I substitute this for that?”[/quote]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t this pretty much what the Mastering Evocation course is all about?

E.A. says constantly that most of this is B.S. He seems to get good results, and honestly I’ve been getting good results using his methods.

I work alot with the Goetia demons, and I do incorporate the Seals of Solomon, the LBRP, etc into ritual, and have built a lifestyle based on learning Kabballa, Torah, praying alot atm, but I pretty much make the ritual my own based on what E.A. has taught me from Evoking Eternity and the M.E. course. I’ve been getting results, rather good ones actually.

For me, that’s what counts right now. Believe me, if I had the means and time to put on big ritual productions, spend a week in the woods carving wands, etc, I would do it. All I’m saying is, maybe it’s not really necessary, since the proof is in the pudding, E.A.'s methods work…

I’ve only been evoking for less than a year and I’m getting results…to me that’s freaking awesome, and I didn’t have to spend a week running around naked in the woods to achieve it.

;p

5

I don’t think it’s WHAT you do, so much as HOW you do it. I think the mindset is more important than the physical actions, but the traditional methods are a way of obtaining the necessary mindset. The actions prescribed help to focus the mind and spirit on what is being done. Sitting naked in a field, under a full moon, is one hell of a way to attain the mindset for ritual :slight_smile:

6

I agree that customizations and innovation are crucial to help one build o. Their successes.

Gnosis, don’t misunderstand what I meant. Your getting results because you are doing the work, your doing the exercises and putting the methods to use. You’d be surprised how many people get this stuff and do nothing with it. They jump from one thing to the next without putting in time and effort to apply the information. A lot of people want a short cut or think magick is some shit on tv and its a lot harder than all that.

I don’t mean you have to cut a wand with a knife that’s never been used on the day of Mars in the hour of Mercury and have robes blessed by seven priests yadda yadda. I mean you have to do magick not read about it or watch someone else do it or talk about it.

I took me fucking FOREVER to get TG sync down, I didn’t quit trying, I didn’t try something different, I didn’t use another method I worked with what was available until I learned. I didn’t start evoking until last year, I wanted to make aure my foundation was solid before moving forward. before that I had been doing chaos magick and hoodoo, both can be labor intensive as the effort is the intent your pushing.

Reading a book or buying a course does nothing if you won’t use it.

7

This is going to be one of those threads that I find myself agreeing with everyone. :slight_smile:

There are those that don’t find any success with traditional systems, and there are those that don’t find success with E.A.'s methods. I think DarkestKnight is right, the mindset is where it takes off.

Lupus813 is also right, one cannot just sit around and expect success to come. It takes hardwork. Doing the rituals even when you are too tired to so.

I personally mix E.A.'s techniques with others I have learned and it has boosted my success rate. I have also paid more attention to traditional systems and that has boosted my success as well.

I think the main point is “If you do magic, be prepared to work your ass off.”

8
Your getting results because you are doing the work, your doing the exercises and putting the methods to use. You'd be surprised how many people get this stuff and do nothing with it. They jump from one thing to the next without putting in time and effort to apply the information. A lot of people want a short cut or think magick is some shit on tv and its a lot harder than all that.

Yup, I totally agree.

Like I said I try to get myself into the mindset of the system I’m using, and I do spend alot of time building relationships with the spirits I work with. I talk to them everyday, multiple times a day, until I feel comfortable enough to do a full evocation of them. I don’t want to call some random spirit and have it pissed at me or not follow my instructions to a ‘T’.

Yea, I thought you were implying I had to wait until Mars was in the house of the moon on the 7th day after the Menstrual cycle while getting my robe peed on by a dying calf for the sheepskin parchment of the sigal.

9

I’ll put it like this if you want to work with a crossroad spirit your going to have to go down to the crossroads, that means leaving the house, fining a crossroad, and putting in the work with the spirit. You can’t do that from home on the couch.

Do you need to dance in circles speak pig Latin and put hot sauce in your eyes while at the crossroads? No, Just honest intent and effort is all that’s required.

10

[quote=“Gnosis, post:4, topic:2342”][quote="-TWF-, post:2, topic:2342"]Agreed, doing the work is the biggest part of it, from the energy you use making and collecting tools and implements to sitting there doing meditations and exercises when you’d rather be doing something else or doing a ritual for x amount of days when you don’t feel like it. If it was easy everyone would do it.

Post a spell or ritual and I guarantee someone will ask “Do I REALLY have to do this?” or “Can I substitute this for that?”[/quote]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t this pretty much what the Mastering Evocation course is all about?

E.A. says constantly that most of this is B.S. He seems to get good results, and honestly I’ve been getting good results using his methods.

I work alot with the Goetia demons, and I do incorporate the Seals of Solomon, the LBRP, etc into ritual, and have built a lifestyle based on learning Kabballa, Torah, praying alot atm, but I pretty much make the ritual my own based on what E.A. has taught me from Evoking Eternity and the M.E. course. I’ve been getting results, rather good ones actually.

For me, that’s what counts right now. Believe me, if I had the means and time to put on big ritual productions, spend a week in the woods carving wands, etc, I would do it. All I’m saying is, maybe it’s not really necessary, since the proof is in the pudding, E.A.'s methods work…

I’ve only been evoking for less than a year and I’m getting results…to me that’s freaking awesome, and I didn’t have to spend a week running around naked in the woods to achieve it.

;p[/quote]Awesome! Me too! Sweet.

11

[quote="-TWF-, post:6, topic:2342"]I agree that customizations and innovation are crucial to help one build o. Their successes.

Gnosis, don’t misunderstand what I meant. Your getting results because you are doing the work, your doing the exercises and putting the methods to use. You’d be surprised how many people get this stuff and do nothing with it. They jump from one thing to the next without putting in time and effort to apply the information. A lot of people want a short cut or think magick is some shit on tv and its a lot harder than all that.

I don’t mean you have to cut a wand with a knife that’s never been used on the day of Mars in the hour of Mercury and have robes blessed by seven priests yadda yadda. I mean you have to do magick not read about it or watch someone else do it or talk about it.

I took me fucking FOREVER to get TG sync down, I didn’t quit trying, I didn’t try something different, I didn’t use another method I worked with what was available until I learned. I didn’t start evoking until last year, I wanted to make aure my foundation was solid before moving forward. before that I had been doing chaos magick and hoodoo, both can be labor intensive as the effort is the intent your pushing.

Reading a book or buying a course does nothing if you won’t use it.[/quote]

Right? The “doing”.

12

[quote="-TWF-, post:9, topic:2342"]I’ll put it like this if you want to work with a crossroad spirit your going to have to go down to the crossroads, that means leaving the house, fining a crossroad, and putting in the work with the spirit. You can’t do that from home on the couch.

Do you need to dance in circles speak pig Latin and put hot sauce in your eyes while at the crossroads? No, Just honest intent and effort is all that’s required.[/quote]
Exactly.

13

[quote="-TWF-, post:6, topic:2342"]I agree that customizations and innovation are crucial to help one build o. Their successes.

Gnosis, don’t misunderstand what I meant. Your getting results because you are doing the work, your doing the exercises and putting the methods to use. You’d be surprised how many people get this stuff and do nothing with it. They jump from one thing to the next without putting in time and effort to apply the information. A lot of people want a short cut or think magick is some shit on tv and its a lot harder than all that.

I don’t mean you have to cut a wand with a knife that’s never been used on the day of Mars in the hour of Mercury and have robes blessed by seven priests yadda yadda. I mean you have to do magick not read about it or watch someone else do it or talk about it.

I took me fucking FOREVER to get TG sync down, I didn’t quit trying, I didn’t try something different, I didn’t use another method I worked with what was available until I learned. I didn’t start evoking until last year, I wanted to make aure my foundation was solid before moving forward. before that I had been doing chaos magick and hoodoo, both can be labor intensive as the effort is the intent your pushing.

Reading a book or buying a course does nothing if you won’t use it.[/quote]
Fucking eh. I started with the Div course after having read and tried most everything in the books. And doing it in the context of the Mark Alllen Smith Trident of Witchcraft prespective.