Thoughts; Why I don’t support “us verses them” mentality in the occult

I have noticed a lot of people in certain magical practices seem to say that they know the “right way” of things and anyone else who even says otherwise has no idea what they are talking about. One of the reasons I like this community is because it’s not very judgmental on what others ask, need or do. Very few people have assumed off the bat you did something wrong or so on if you need help with a particular situation.

That being said, as I read in and about occult topics, in both RHP and LHP circles, there are a few people who adhere to this kind of unspoken dogma that is assumed to be the mindset of other people. I have nothing against agreeing to something that could be seen as dogmatic (as I still believe LaVey’s rather idealistic Laws and Statements are good guidelines for a personal ethic code, nearly a year and a half after I first picked up the Satanic Bible), but I also believe that dogma should be at the very least limited to reasonable and rational uses, if not exterminated.

The problem with us vs. them dogma specifically is that it fails to provide the option to acknowledge open interpretation of mysteries. This is important for most people to acknowledge because a lot of people talk about similar concepts (like the Earth Mother) using different names (the Goddess, the World Serpent, the Turtle with The World on Her Back, the Dragon, Gaia, etc). One particular quote I like goes “eclecticism is a major weapon of the occultist” (N.A:O, Tree of Qliphoth [Temple of Ascending Flame anthology], Itzpapalotl, pg. 147). While I believe it is important to study the context of each cultural entity, it is wrong to say a correlation between two entities does not equate to an interesting theory or realization outside of the cultural contexts. To reject the claim, although acceptable if there is evidence, is also foolish without ground. (Such as the common claims of Satan-Lucifer-Devil as entitie(s) of themselves or as one, which is by itself a ballpark too large a scope of this rambling in one post).

Occultists are individuals, and as people who realize this fully we usually stray away from those who stand in opposition of our views. But we should also, as they say, “know the system to break the system”, and there are many ways to understand the system, especially in contexts of philosophies like Chaos theory, which holds theories that always work in theory but need to be applied by each individual in their own “spin”. But instead of “us verses them”, we should think as “myself against myself”. Magic(k) puts the individual to the test by challenging thier reality, sometimes even altering it, in order to create something different, if not better. The only people that needs to be challenged that are not yourself are the people stopping you from becoming yourself and actually believe in the “us verses them” mentalities. At the end of the day, wars of destruction are for the losing sides, wars of knowledge are for the gods. Arguing about how a theory can affect mentality and worldview is always going to reveal more insight and productivity - therefore, fulfillment and joy in standing by yourself and learning - than arguing about who Satan is or whether a ultimate power above many gods exists.

I think many people who have been in the occult for more than 4 months are well aware of these kinds of arguments, dogma and philosophies, so this post could be repetitive, but it’s easy to see that disagreements don’t necessarily result in braking apart a circle as much as ridicule does constantly. People don’t like being told they are wrong when they feel or know something is right. The only time a person is wrong is when they are fighting a losing battle against thier ideals, or violate themselves unnecessarily. In this way I believe many circles can benefit from studying what they don’t agree with when the need arises.

This is something I’ve been thinking about for a while, and I believe that hearing out the word of other mages would be enlightening to myself and others.


“Spirituality is an ideology”

Although many people will tell you otherwise, THEY’RE ALL lying, even those magicians who strut around saying, “I’m focused on what is real.”

For example, I have rarely heard such proselytizing as I have heard on behalf of da “unlimited powahs of da darkness against Da fulse light” as I have on this forum.

Which is ideology, even when they say, “Oh, I’m focused on REALITY.”


It’s not really a matter of who is lying but the ability to understand that everything has the potential to be true. Some things are very rarely true. Other things are so common it is true. Everything can also be a lie.

That being said, I personally think it’s quite foolish to be on the “dark side” and to shun “white lighters” for being too “fluff bunny”. A person who truely believes in Light will have more insight than a person who doesn’t really believe on a Dark path they travel. It seems to be a common observable trait. I would rather talk with a Wiccan that believes in what they stand for (understanding their path seriously) and disagrees with my stance on things than a Satanist who can’t even tell me what Satan means to them but nods their head to everything I have to say (and therefore eats what spoon feeds them). At least with the Wiccan will give me insight and prehaps they can learn from me.


I couldn’t read it all. The long brick text assaults me, but the part I did get was very well put.

Everything is subject to interpretation and there isn’t necessarily a right or wrong way to do anything and everything has its place. Of course, there are some proven ways that are easier that we all know of which is what the masses follow. However, following the easiest method of approaching anything at all times means no knowledge is ever truly gained only regurgitated.


One thing won’t work for everyone.