There's nothing wrong with charging what you're worth

Some of you are really good at your magick. And you’re going to be approached by those who need your help.

I put a post up here last week that seems to have gathered a bit of attention. I gues you could say it’s the eternal artist/consumer misunderstanding.

An inbox message i sent to Jay a few weeks ago. If you’re getting good at your magicks on this board and want to start doing work for others, you may find something of use in this post, so i’m putting it up here fwiw.

[quote=“the magician”]…which btw brings me to the topic of doing work for others.

I’d like to ask you to speak to your godparents and muerto about charging for work you do. I want to send people your way and i want you to be fairly compensated.

My suggestion is to price your work properly. Here’s a way i came up with that works pretty well:

First, you ask yourself how much you value your skill per year. It can be any figure you feel confident with.

Then divide that by a full-time worker’s annual billable hours. Full-time workers work 2080 hours per year. So the formula can be something like

<how much you’re worth per year> / 2080 = Your ritual rate per hour.

For divination with your muerto, use a typical hour’s rate instead of a work rate. Divinations are usually less than ritual work.

There are roughly 8766 hours per year, so a formula for divination can be

<how much you’re worth per year> / 8766 = Your hourly divination rate.

So for example. Gary Vaynerchuk said the 1% earn an average of $400,000/year. If you value your magick at that amount, you could charge:

$400,000/2080 = $192.30/hour for work with your muerto, and
$400,000/8766 = $45.63/hour for divinations.

The divinations could be broken down further into 15 minute, 30 minute, 60 minute, and 90 minute work, so
$11.41 (15 minute divs)
$22.82 (30 minute divs)
$45.63 (60 minute divs)
$68.46 (90 minute divs)

To make it easier, you may want to do what many marketers do and round that rate to the nearest 7 or 9, so instead of $68.46 for a 90 minute divination, you charge $67 or $69 for the sake of clarity.

That is one way you can find acceptable rates for ritual and divinatory work.

I’m thinking when you get your warriors you’re worth $1 million a year, and adjust your fees from there:

$480.76 for every hour for ritual work
$28.51 (15 minute divs)
$57.02 (30 minute divs)
$114.04 (60 minute divs)
$171.06 (90 minute divs)

Those rates might seem high at first, but take a look at Erik’s consultation and ritual rates. Nate, Asenath, and Ben are more affordable but they’re not working for peanuts either. Off the site, Brother Moloch starts at $1000 to do ritual work in Haitian Vodun, and he does not tolerate foolery. As a Santero/Palero, you have every right to charge the same rates. You can easily get the same results as any of the above workers if not better than them. You know what you can do with Palo!

Other than that you barter and make those who don’t have the money find something they can give you that you need or want. Maybe they live in a region of the world where they can gather herbs, magickal woods, stones, or other spell implements you need and send them to you through the post, or have things made for you and mailed to you by handiworkers etc. If someone is serious they can always find something they need and find a way to give to you.

There is always a way to find fair compensation. Don’t do work for free unless you want to test shit out on random people to see if you can make things happen sight unseen. I do that all the time and i get some pretty cool results, but it is draining to put out and not receive anything in return, and frankly, i am getting tired of it.[/quote]

Also, for those of you who can’t afford it…

…you’re MAGICIANS! You can put your situation INTO the magick YOURSELF.

Here’s how, from another post i put up on here a couple of years ago:

[quote=“the fool, post:19, topic:2393”]no you’re not. i can tell by the way you are talking. you are going to try to do everything and accomplish nothing. your mind is too scattered. i know exactly what you are doing because i’ve done the same thing and i’m telling you, it won’t happen for you. you gotta try something different if you want to get out of the jam you’re in.

i have said it before and i’m going to say it again. to do magick, you need to follow five steps:
: fix your mindset
: set one intent/goal
: perform a greater magick ritual
: trigger the manifestation with lesser magick/real world action
: review your progress to stay on track.

i asked you to contact ea about opening the EQAMO sigil using his method from mastering evocation. i get the feeling that you don’t have the program so i’m going to give you another method for opening the EQAMO sigil, using fire skrying.

i did a quick search on google and found this method 10 minutes ago. here’s how you do it. light a candle, put the EQAMO sigil in front of the candle or underneath it, and then stare at the flame while reciting the square’s mantra: SEQOR EQAMO QASAQ OMAQE ROQES over and over again. keep doing that until you gain an insight into understanding your problem. you will feel tired and begin to nod off. that is a sign that you are going into magickal trance. don’t fall asleep. it’s important that you stay awake and aware because that magickal trance is the way for you to make changes in your life. at the point when you feel like you are going to black out, as soon as your mind goes blank, PUSH THROUGH THE BLANKNESS and demand that the spirits of the seal manifest around you and give you a sign that they are there. then pay attention to any changes around you in tempeature, any sounds you hear, any sights you see, or whatever. when you see hear or feel anything they are there. then you tell them you want money and to bring it to you. simple as that. do not banish the spirits or your quarters. you want them around and working on your behalf constantly. if you have to release any of these spirits, wait until you have the money you want to release them later on.

after that, every day just like i said before. when you are getting ready to go outside, look at the EQAMO sigil and visualize $20s lying around outside and affirm to yourself that you are going to find them. write down that you are going to find $20 bills everywhere you go. then when you are outside, instead of worrying about being broke, look for $20s. when you find one quietly walk over to it and pick it up. don’t make a big deal out of it. don’t look at the damn thing, just pick it up and put it in your pocket and then walk away.

do that for 21 days. there’s your money, there’s your magick.

if you have to, repeat the entire greater magick rite every night. muster up the faith to believe that you really can conjure to find $20 bills lying around all over your city or town.

keep in mind that in magick ANYTHING is possible, you just have to find the way to make it happen. that is magickal belief.[/quote]

One of the former members of this board did this exact ritual and a year later told me that he found over $6000 in 10 months worth of $20s lying around. He said he even found $20s lying on the ground when he MOVED TO THE WOODS AWAY FROM HUMAN HABITATION.

Magick works if you work it. You just have to believe. In magick, belief doesn’t mean you trust it. Belief means you DO IT.

Food for thought.


Definitely food for thought! Thank you for sharing! ! :slight_smile:

Wise words. David Neagle talks a lot about learning how to feel okay about charging what your self-respect & skill level demand, what you’re WORTH, andhis blog Q&A is a goldmine (no pun intended).

I love that guy, he’s soldly rooted in ancient wisdom and he’s taught me SO much.

Mod hat on, dual reminder - first, please don’t advertise in posts, or PM people unless they contacted you first, to advertise your vodou dildoes or whatever you’re hawking :o) - but, if you run a store, you can list it in your profile page, that way people who like your posts or go to PM you can see it when they click through. :slight_smile:

I will continue promoting my Vodou dildos both in threads and unsolicited private messages. And there is nothing you Lady Eva can do about it.
You are utterly powerless to stop me.

[quote=“DeathWish, post:4, topic:8470”]I will continue promoting my Vodou dildos both in threads and unsolicited private messages. And there is nothing you Lady Eva can do about it.
You are utterly powerless to stop me.[/quote]
Well i was planning on having one of those sex toys parties next month ! :wink:

David’s blog is FANTASTIC! I’ve never seen it before but already i’ve gone over a couple of his posts and he puts up A1 content.

I just ordered his free DVD on busting through blind spots.

THANK YOU for that link Lady, it’s just what the doctor ordered :c)

All of the success principles in New Thought tie directly into Hermetic principles and apply them to daily life. I realized that a long time ago - the most successful people i have come across are practical Hermeticists, whether they realize it or not. I have yet to come across a single exception.

Truth. I forgot to add - don’t advertise on another worker’s blog without their permission, it’s in bad form.

There are ways to put your services in message footers, and also if someone PMs you, you can suggest they buy your services.

Whatever you do, don’t turn into walking talking spam or turn every message board or list you join into a Classified ad for fortune-telling. Retain your humanity - resist the urge to become a marketing pitchfest.

[quote=“arianna, post:5, topic:8470”][quote=“DeathWish, post:4, topic:8470”]I will continue promoting my Vodou dildos both in threads and unsolicited private messages. And there is nothing you Lady Eva can do about it.
You are utterly powerless to stop me.[/quote]
Well i was planning on having one of those sex toys parties next month ! ;)[/quote]

[quote=“DeathWish, post:7, topic:8470”][quote=“arianna, post:5, topic:8470”][quote=“DeathWish, post:4, topic:8470”]I will continue promoting my Vodou dildos both in threads and unsolicited private messages. And there is nothing you Lady Eva can do about it.
You are utterly powerless to stop me.[/quote]
Well i was planning on having one of those sex toys parties next month ! ;)[/quote]

Do i even want to know what a voodooing dildo would do ?! Lol
And im so sorry this thread has been hijacked. Ill make it up to you magician just as soon as you hand over that spell!! :slight_smile:

That’s my “I’m offishul confiscate these… yes, and that hot n’spicy hellfire lube” busted then. :frowning:

You bastard!

David’s awesome - he’s talking about some of THE most hardcore reality-creation out there, I bless the day I found his website, he’s helped me more than probably any other living teacher. :heart:


mmmmmeh. It happens. I know the feeling, Taytay.


mmmmmeh. It happens. I know the feeling, Taytay.

You didnt have to run though i was gonna play nice! :slight_smile:

Yup i agree nothing wrong with charging what you believe is a trade for your craft. My only suggestion would be tho with pricing, make it affordable but not cheap. Just bear that in mind with so many ppl hard on cash and target market, etc etc. That would be my only suggestion however if your one of a kind and git a fresh idea, then yiu can charge a bit more and get away with it :wink: just some considerations

There’s always a way to figure out an affordable compensation.

I already gave you a way to find rates you feel are worth your while. If you think those are still too high, let me give you ANOTHER compensation method keyed to affordability.

You’re from Pennsylvania, USA. The 2015 per-capita GDP for your state is $48,944. The average working-class Pennsylvanian earns that much per year.

A way to keep your rates affordable is to tie your value ladder of services to that income and price your services at 10% of that income on an annual, quarterly, monthly, weekly, and daily rate.

That works out to
0.1 * = your highest level of premium service
0.1 * ( / 4) = your next level of premium service
0.1 * ( / 12) = your 3rd level of premium service
0.1 * ( / 52) = your 4th level of premium service
0.1 * ( / 365.25) = your lowest level of premium service
FREE = your giveaways.

So, for instance, for a Pennsylvanian earning $48,944, you charge the following rates:
: $4894 for an initiation into what you do, if they want that
: $1224 for an in-person or one-on-one ritual
: $408 for a low-end or remote ritual
: divination rate of $94/hour, giving you $141 (90 minutes), $94 (60 minutes), $47 (30 minutes), or $24 (15 minutes) for sessions
: $13 average for books or merchandise
: shop talk and giveaway rituals for FREE on BALG and other message boards.
Again rounded to the nearest 7 or 9.

So for instance, you announce you have a new book out teaching others how to do magick for themselves. It’s on Amazon and it’s only $19. That’s not unaffordable.

Somebody runs into trouble and they need your help. You tell them hey, i’d love to help you. To do so, i charge $407 for the work so i can buy the implements you need to get a result. That again, is not unaffordable to anyone who is serious.

If someone wants to learn the best of what you got. Tell them i’ll give you the keys to my kingdom for $1227. They pay up and you hand over all your best knowhow.

Let’s keep it real. A lot of people are in debt or are hurtin for cash nowadays. Nobody else wants to admit this out loud, but i will. Ok i get it. That’s why i gave the ritual for finding money on the street. The original ritual was to find quarters. I changed it from quarters to $20s and it still works just as well. There is no reason why your client can’t change the ritual to look for $50s or $100s. by doing that, they can literally find the money to work with you if they are serious.

For everybody else, tell them to follow you on the message boards Shop talk and give out DIY exercises and rituals for FREE. You will constantly receive new information in this fashion and sharpen your skill as you get feedback on your ideas. You also build your reputation in the world by sharing good knowledge. Finally, if others like what you give away for free, their reasoning will be that what you sell is also of a high quality and they will be more likely to remember you when they’re ready to buy something.

Long story short: these rates are affordable for anyone in your area who is serious.

This chart lists countries by per capita GDP so these numbers can be adjusted to work and be affordable pretty much anywhere in the world where people are able to work for a living.

You are doing your clients a disservice by charging any less. For one thing, these fees allow you to buy the tools and implements you need to do your work on their behalf. You wouldn’t expect a surgeon to do a triple bypass with a plastic knife and fork from the soup kitchen, would you? So why should a metaphysician do a psychic surgery using sigils taken from free pdf’s and cobbled-together circles made using tools from the dollar store? Let’s be serious here.

I can say this, because i have DONE that type of McGyver magick using layabout materials and nothing more than my own willpower with machines, and i have lived to regret it.

One time i had to save a public figure’s career using nothing but a bottle of Extra Virgin Olive Oil and a seal drawn on paper and I DID IT. If i say their name you WILL recognize them. When i did that ritual for them i was living on the street. They didn’t give me a fucking penny or even a thank you! How would you feel if you were in my shoes?

Another time i saved somebody’s life during a series of back-to-back heart attacks using nothing more than a photo i printed of them off the internet for $0.15. 6 months later i saw a photo of them in some club in Las Vegas partying with a bunch of strangers in VIP. Again i did that ritual literally out on the street because i didn’t even have enough to rent a room to do it in private! I’m sure that after the fact they took a few Vegas strippers back to a nice 5-star hotel room for some fun, meanwhile i was out there starving my ass off. They never gave me a penny but had thousands for bottle service to spend on complete strangers. Again how would you feel? you’d feel like a fucking fool pitying somebody like that.

I’ve done all these fucking miracles for people who need me when shit hits the fan. When their life improves, they invariably ditch and badmouth me. I’m sorry, but i get tired of doing free when i see shit like that go down.

Some people are really goddamn rude with their ingratitude, man. I’ve had to APOLOGIZE to some spirits for how some people acted after the magick worked for them! You’ll know what i mean when it happens to you. And i’m telling you, if you become a spellbeggar magnet, it WILL happen to you.

When some people don’t have two pennies to rub together they come looking for me and i have to do miracles with scant info, crappy links, and minimal technology. Even so, i do it. If you ever wondered why i get so grouchy on here sometimes, now you know. I’m being hemmed in by overly demanding spell begging and i end up under pressure to move heaven and earth with nothing. When things go good for those same charity cases, they oftentimes disappear only to reappear surrounded by doubters who look at me sideways and mock magick as woo-woo for superstitious idiots. No payment, no gratitude, no respect, not even a thank you for helping out in a tough time. You feel used when that happens to you often enough. This week i drew the line in the sand and finally said NO MORE.

I DID THAT TO MYSELF by NOT CHARGING WHAT I’M WORTH. Don’t make the mistake i have made. Give others an inch they’ll take a mile. Don’t fall for it. CHARGE WHAT YOU’RE WORTH. If you’re altruistic, charge for the materials to do the spell and do the work for free. If you’re profit-minded but reasonable, BARTER. But CHARGE one way or another. Nothing is free.

I’m not some shady preacher trying to squeeze a Porsche out of desperate parishioners’ offering plates. I can, have, and will continue to do magick for others from time to time without asking for anything because i really like doing that for people and i like to see others do well in life. All i’m saying is you’re either going to pay with money or you’ll pay with time. An hour is a lot harder to get back once it’s gone than a dollar! Let your clients pay for the service they want from you. Let them treat you and the spirits you call on with a little fucking RESPECT.

If you are altruistic and want to serve mankind, work with your clients. Tell them you don’t charge for the work, but price out the materials and tell them to pay for the materials and you’ll do the work for free. Then let them send you money to buy everything and buy the materials you want to do the ritual properly. Maybe donate any leftover money you get from them to a charity that the spirit favors as a goodwill offering and an incentive for them to work harder on your clients’ behalf. Or, if you work with the dead, find out where their graves are or where they died. Go to that site and burn the money in their honor, or bury coins in tribute to them. If you work deads on an altar, put the money on the altar to them. There are ways to pay it forward if you don’t want to keep it for yourself.

More food for thought.


So, in my white light days, I did a lot of healing work, and the expectation (maybe more so in the UK with our healthcare system as it is) is that “healing is a spiritual gift, not to be sullied with commerce” and so on, and people commonly expect either freebies, or “donation only” which usually means less than 3 x the lowest legal hourly wage, if that.

That the spiritual healer or whatever has PAID for their training, books, etc., and is paying for their accomodation, food, heat, any tools, and all the things that let them focus on your wellbeing, well pah - shouldn’t the universe like “provide,” or something? “Abundance”? Yeah…

Now, this is on me - I didn’t have the mindset at the time to set boundaries or anything of that nature, half bought into the idea myself (the white light world requires you to accept on trust many “higher moral truths” that you kinda recognise don’t make sense, you get used to it) - anyway, I generally did a lot of freebies for people.

As I described before on here, sometimes what seems to the person like a really simple problem is actually some kind of multi-generational curse, or major spirit attachment that can’t just be cleared in 30m of sitting calmly with a bit of incense burning, and visualising the love flowing in.

And because that world prioritises altruism, and faith in some kind of cosmic “all things are for the best,” there’s far less emphasis on divination, because that would be placing yourself ahead of the person’s needs, and that’s widely frowned-upon.

On a few occasions, a “simple” healing took maybe 3 days of follow up, I don’t mean every waking hour, but enough to be well beyond what the person was willing to compensate me for financially, and that was one of the reasons I stopped doing it - that, and the fact the whole love & light scene seemed like an increasingly creaky artifice the more I explored and pushed through.

I’ve had situations even on here where I’ve helped people in some way, and ended up with a larger situation than they’re maybe aware of, but that’s cool with me because my stance on things has done a 180, I say “No” almost all the time unless it looks like an interesting or useful experience for me, and I also apply more divination beforehand, in most cases.

But I have had to apologise to spirits a couple of times, as well, in a similar situation to the ones you describe where the person is so offhand or entitled that they actually insulted them, and I feel certain that the fact there wasn’t a valuable monetary exchange going on, was part of the reason why they mentally devalued the work to such a degree that it caused offence to the spirit.

The takeaway from this is that 1. anyone offering spiritual services will either find a way to get something out of it that’s worth their while, or quit trying to help people, and if neither of the above, there’s a possibility that they’re scamming you, because you’re not going to get quality work, for long, at bargain-basement prices - the energy outlay, training involved, hassle of dealing with customers who are often totally unhinged themselves, and potential of risk to the practitioner is just too high to be worth $20 or “donations only” recompense.

And 2. this isn’t just about the human - if they’re at all sincere, they’re working with spirits, and when you haggle while thinking nothing of spending £35 a week on fancy freakin’ coffees, then you’re insulting that spirit by default.

Dentistry, medicine, car repairs, all areas where most people realise that cost is integral to getting any kind of decent service - your soul though? Yeah, screw that, just find some moron who keeps their fees as low as possible, it’s not like it’s important or anything… :confused:

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I’ve actually lost a few “friends” after refusing working for free. I used to have a rule where I don’t charge people I know personally for first 2-3 working but then they always get entitled and take offence when you refuse keep working for free. Now I only help if I have some irresistible urge to do so.

I remember one “friend” asked me to read for him, I did a couple readings for free but then he kept asking for more so I charged him. Long story short, he felt I charge too much AFTER i did the work, kept complaining about financial issues and stuff. Then he started saying I was a bad friend for breaking his balls when he has no money for his son, yet the asshole had enough to get shitfaced every night. I ended up telling him to keep his money and not ask me for help when some of my spirits decides to take offence and retaliate. He ended up paying but there was so much hateful speech and name calling, that I was surprised for a minute. And the funniest thing that it wasn’t a question of thousands or even hundreds of dollars, i think he owed me something like 50 bucks or less.

That’s just one of many, so fuck working for free. Also, I’ve noticed that if there is no some sort of mutual exchange, service for money or service for service, then some kind of sort of unwanted attachment to that person is formed.

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