The true nature of demons?

#1

I’ve been looking through a few grimoires now. There is just SO MUCH occult literature that explains how dangerous demons are and thus the author won’t even go into how to evoke them.
Here is a quote from “Summoning Spirits,” by Konstantinos…:
“These are the hardest types of beings to control and rightly so, because they are by nature antagonistic to the magician. The last thing they want to do is help an agent of the Light perform a task. Even though they could be commanded to do so, the chances of receiving false information and weak results are increased when working with demons. My advice is to avoid working with them in the first place.”

Has anyone on here actually summoned a demon before? And if so, please share your experience.

#2

Primarily with Azazel and the nethers… they seem helpful enough, give them a task and they will do it… be it something external or getting you information or whatever… except for azazel… every time I’ve worked with him he seemed to take a guidance role… do this, try this,etc… so in my experience this isn’t true.
no offense to the author but he sounds like a pussy

#3

You’ve interpreted that passage completely wrong. Notice a few key terms: “agent of the Light”, “control”, “commanded”. Those are none of the words that are used here. We don’t control these creatures, we don’t command them, we don’t threaten them.

Just because Konstantino works in a different paradigm with different beliefs doesn’t mean that he’s a pussy.

One last thing, I hate when people say, “no offense but…”. Of course you mean to offend them! Just offend them like a real black magician should!

#4

If you take efforts to make what you say sound more genuine and sincere people are much more malleable even if they are offended…
You can say all kinds of shit to people if you make it sound nice… to use a term wanderingfool coined(I think) “velvet cruelty” is the best way to define it

#5

Interesting post!

As far me, I never try to command or control ANY being. Now, before I go any further brothers/sisters of blackness, let me say that I myself DON’T EVER want to be “controlled” or “commanded” or “enslaved” by ANYTHING either.

With that being said, I would rather take the approach of “working with”, “partnering”. I think it is foolish as WP stated to think that we can “control” entities as Powerful as Azazel et al.

Now, if within my workings I feel that I MUST “control” another human-being/entity…so be it. But I personally like co-operation better. For me, I like that fact that I consider myself respectful, considerate, etc…just because I’m into Dark Quarters doesn’t mean I have to be an asshole. For me, the more unassuming I appear to others, the more powerful I AM.

I think the Konstantinos statement is more a matter of Paradigm. If one is a rigid as “I’m a WHITE magician” so I’m going to work with a DEMON = evil, darkness, etc perhaps their is some hesitation do to his own internal struggle.

For most of us here (BALG/LHP’ers), I believe it’s a matter of getting the job done!!! Personally I don’t care if it’s an “Angel” or a “Demon”. I’m not really bound to cultural/societal filters of “Right” and “Wrong”.

Ya heard?

#6

Also the only time they are antagonistic to the magician is when the task called for it… I’ve had a burning desire to leave, to escape, my current situation since I did my first revocation with azazel… That inner fire is driving me nuts, I can’t sit still long enough to finish a book like I could before the evocation, but it’s helping me get shit done so I can get out of here.

#7

I actually kind of suspect Konstantinos might not be completely truthful with all the opinions he expreeses in his book. I mean if you take his words at face value he believes in the three fold law, and also thinks some goetia demons are not demons, but he is a relitively advanced magician who should know better at the same time. Could be the guy threw in some blinders for some reaosn.

#8

I lived with a bokor(unsure if that is the right spelling) who knew konstantinos and said he was mostly an armchair mage… though I’m not sure I believe him because he’s a bullshit artist, so half of what he said may be true and half you knew was a lie… though I did hear a story about konstantinos from another guy that gave me the most awesome idea for firing off a sigils that I want to try via someone else…
apparently he would make sigils in gunpowder and stare at the sigil as he set it aflame, burning the sigils in to his retinas right before he went to sleep.

#9

Honestly demons arent like how most people make them out to be. In my experience, usually if you respect them then they will respect you. Its really only when you treat them like your bitch and start making threats that they start to get pissed, but then again thats spirits in general.

#10

Also one other thing I noticed the sigils konstantinos uses for paralda and Ghob are different then EA’s. What’s up with that?

#11

Actually you ARE supposed to command them. They’ll tell you that themselves. It’s essential. Beyond the psychological side of it, it has to do with how reality works.

#12

As seem in BOA: “The Infernal Hierarchy is as follows: the Operator; and everything else in existence.”

Im not sure about this yet. But in evocation…dont you quite create the Spirit? You are materializating him by alchemy, visualization… arent you supposed to be a creator God in that moment? Able to command him?

I guess i will be able to figure out many stuff pathworking through the Mastering Evocation Course. On pratice.

#13

I agree. My bf bought the grimoire for me as a present… I had to be honest and tell him it’s a dud

#14

Demons are raw power personified by deific mask. They take on personality traits, and communicate with the operator. In the moment of evocation we become god in the flesh, the macrocosm manifest in the microcosm. This merger grants you the power to create a spirit in front of you. It’s instant creation of an eternal being. I’m still trying to wrap my head around it. I know the manifestation is a hallucination, but it behaves on it’s own accord, teaches me things I could not know otherwise, and manipulates reality at my command. Also when thinking of angels and demons ponder this, Azazel was a fallen angel, the chief of all fallen angels and now is called a demonic king. What is the difference between an angel and a demon? Demons seize power and use if for themselves, they help whom they want and destroy who they want. Fortunately Azazel is waking up other fallen angels trapped in the flesh and teaching them the path to godhood! Or being a fully awakend angelic/demonic spirit in flesh. Call it what you want.

#15

He has discussed topics similar to this in other threads. Try search posts/threads with “sigil” as the term and “E.A.” as the author, should find what you’re looking for.

In brief, he has said that sigils are a fairly new thing in the scheme of things and aren’t really necessary - while they are helpful, the name and general feeling of the entity are the most important parts. Also, an entity may have multiple sigils. One of the magicians on this forum got some special sigils for the gatekeepers during a consult, and they were different than those in grimmoires. He got permission to post the image of them here, you might want to check it out.

Edit: here was the post mentioning “revealed” sigils

[quote=“Brutus, post:33, topic:863”]Thanks for that Nereid! Here it is:

www.freeimagehosting.net/ew74d

Remember these were done by EA, not me.

I have his okay to post them here.

James was your question directed at me? I don’t think you can find these ones as they were given directly to me from EA. The story is I will be working with one of these guys very soon and during a consult EA sent me this file with the sigils on it. He said I could post it on the forum if I wanted. I don’t believe he has put them in print, they are from his personal notes.[/quote]

#16

Ah, excellent, I can’t believe I missed that post. In the future I will be doing some things with the demonic kings so having those special sigils I imagine will indeed be helpful.