The predominance of xenophobic orientation in American Forums

The predominance of xenophobic orientation in American Forums
I have been perusing a number of posts on a number of forums, and I am finding it unfortunate the frequency with which the post-ers orient their “opinions” from American biases, and from those of Western European descent.
I here will propose ways of actually getting at possible solutions, as opposed to proposing non-constructive criticism largely aimed at self-adulation. I propose some possible amendments to one’s cognition to remedy the deficits asserted previously.
One solution would be to actually educate oneself in another language. Children who were raised in multilingual environments demonstrate greater cognitive advantages. People who were raised in environments where other languages were expressed demonstrate greater executive functions, such as: problem solving, mental flexibility, attention control, inhibitory control, and task switching. Individuals who have the benefit of being multi-lingual demonstrate a wider perception of their world, specifically: to perceive situations in different ways and the ability to maintain or manipulate these perceptions to suit the task at hand. I assert the obvious advantage of a broadened perception to anyone attempting to practice the Magickal Arts since the essence of the Art itself is generally agreed upon to begin in the perception of the practitioner. To anyone who would complain that they are unfairly handicapped through no fault of their own environment of birth, I assert as evidence that such a person is in fact viewing my little essay on a computer. I also would assert that I suspect that in most part, the majority of those in Magickal forums have been born after the advent of the internet, and the technological revolution providing people with a bank of computers at any public library, especially in the United States, and probably Canada, and Europe as well.
Another remedy would be to study World History. It is generally agreed that History began in more than one Fertile River Valleys (note: the similarity between a river valley and the valley formed where a woman’s pubis meets her two thighs), those being: the areas between the Tigris and Euphrates in Mesopotamia, the Nile in Egypt, the Indus in the Indian subcontinent, and the Yangtze and Yellow Rivers in China. These areas do not account for other civilizations developing in the archaic times in such locations as: South America including Central America, Africa, the Caribbean, Asia, Far Northern Europe, Japan, Oceania, Siberia, Southeast Asia, nor Australia. I am giving the benefit of the doubt to many who post the fact that there is a vast amount of information that would need to be digested to form a truly cosmological perspective. Certainly no one would be so ego centric as to assert that the only valid form of Magickal knowledge can be obtained from the writings of Western European writers. It is no great secret that most of these writers have filched their works from previous archaic manuscripts found through careful investigation of the areas related above. On a personal note, I have found a great number of short cuts to be found in the study of Tibetan cosmology, and Indian texts both Vedic and yogic. Incorporating the perspective provided these writings broadens ones vision of the Universe from one tiny myopic word on an archaic parchment of dubious origin to considering the constitution of the Universe as a whole, and one’s relative place in it. Being given the overt edification shed by illuminating writings from the East, then occult writings of the Western Traditions are brought out of the dark ages from which they were taken and placed in the light of contemporary and relevant meaning. This may admittedly be a Unverifiable Personal Gnosis on this author’s own part, however I offer the suggestion of considering ancient Eastern texts as being helpful rather than destructive, and there by not degenerating into a bunch of self flagellating mental masturbation.

I think this is a sufficient premise to propose thus far, and in closing I hold as self evident that one individual cannot expect to make aright the conditions of the World before one has put aright the conditions within oneself. I express with confidence that the conditions of the World will aright themselves accordingly once the individuals are illuminated as to their True Nature by virtue of Birth. I assure people that once one realizes and lives into the Truth of one’s relative virtue that all things in the surrounding environment will fall into their order as evidenced by the Dharma of it all.

Just my compendium of a bunch of five dollar words.

I believe 9 out 10 Americans don’t have a passport.

Unfortunately the other 1 out of 10 that do own one usually dress in camouflage, sport a gun and invite themselves into other countries whether the locals want them or not.

There’s my 2 pennies worth of rational analysis or downright xenophobia depending on which side of the fence your on :slight_smile:

There is not much here in terms of other types of magicks, which is a shame considering that the energy work of Eastern paths, along with techniques that cover a vast array of magical qualities in just one exercise (i.e. Nadi Shodana pranayam, which not only generates and balances the spinal nadi pathways, but also quite good at inducing altered states of consciousness and also preparing for the physical demands of magick/shamanism). One of the things is that these other cultures and their magick systems seem too “old school” for most Westerners, and despite people talking about how much work they need to put in, you find few Western magicians willing or even capable of handling Tantric sadhana. I was quite surprised when I came here that there was few to no good info regarding shamanistic dream sorcery. The closest thing to that mentioned is Robert Bruce’s work, which is decent but…

Westerners have a bad habit of believing their ideals are superior. Honestly, they are not any worse than other group; the history of humanity is littered with extremely narrow-minded ideals that predate any on modern antagonist group. However, when it comes to magick, this can be an especially deevolutionary frame of being. I honestly feel that some folks here could definitely benefit from some of the more sombering qualities of Eastern spirituality, especially as dark magicians. However, Westerners can often consider this stuff childish or “unnecessary”, although they will unabashedly borrow things like Indian Spiritual Anatomy and often times shallow analysis of Eastern energy work like QiGong or Yoga. Maybe it is just me, but I would not consider it a wise move to be empowering your heart chakra, and then decide to curse someone because they insulted you. Yet, this type of action is very liable to happen in Western society.

I agree with what you are saying, especially with the notion that folks have to fix themselves first and foremost. Folks used to always look at me like I was some big leader, “You should be a motivational speaker”, “You should be a preacher”. The only problem is that when I actually started preachin’… “Fuck you nigga, You don’t know ME!!!” y shit wasn’t even right at all, and it reflected in my ability to do shit effectively. I been an evangelist, a “freedom fighter”, a personal life coach… and none of it was effective until I fixed myself, which involved throwing away a lot, and I me A LOT self-righteous moralism that made me so popular as “The Preacher”. This is the practical shit I feel the Western perspective can miss, although honestly it is missed globally.

Civilisation in ancient Australia … rofl

I think this word has apparently lost all meaning to people like you.


Fixed it for you.

[quote=“Poete Maudit, post:4, topic:2304”]Civilisation in ancient Australia … rofl

I think this word has apparently lost all meaning to people like you.[/quote]

Is this to say that Australia has no ancient civilization? In which case, such an assertion would be evidence of my premise, which I shall assign Exhibit A. Definitions:
Xenophobia is the irrational or unreasoned fear of that which is perceived to be foreign or strange.[1][2] It comes from the Greek words ξένος (xenos), meaning “stranger,” “foreigner,” and φόβος (phobos), meaning “fear.”[3]

Xenophobia can manifest itself in many ways involving the relations and perceptions of an ingroup towards an outgroup, including a fear of losing identity, suspicion of its activities, aggression, and desire to eliminate its presence to secure a presumed purity.[4] Xenophobia can also be exhibited in the form of an “uncritical exaltation of another culture” in which a culture is ascribed “an unreal, stereotyped and exotic quality”.

“people like you”, being… whom? What are the said people to whom you are referring like? To be fair, I included the complete definition so as not to exclude the possibility that I might be biased.

Or could it be… ah, you win… people like me who would be drawn into a circle jerk when my time would better be spent doing… mostly ANYTHING else. People like me who tutor foriegners, and help them get into college.

Incidentally, how many stamps has Maudit in its passport? However, I of all people should know that stamps nor diplomas are no evidence of … anything, really… so non sequiteur.

Otherwise, I find intelligent replies constructive, and even humour - helpful!

I think that part of what you perceive as xenophobia is not so much based out of fear so much as the post-chaos magic attitude… having a mixture of various paradigms is becoming common, and following a tradition is becoming something considered quaint or unnecessary. Hell my own metaparadigm has all the consistency of Frankenstein’s monster. I’ll bum, borrow, or steal anything I think I could benefit from and I don’t see the lack of consistency as a problem, the reason is consistency is developed as you gain a level of mastery. Also you have to realize that a lot of these models are abstractions meant to get you in contact with the essence behind the form. The form itself is meaningless. This goes for everything from evocation to working with the chakra’s.
Example: I decide to summon stumpy the magically retarded elf. In the process of getting in the state associated with stumpy(prepatory immersion, T/G sync, emotional state, energetic awareness,etc) I come into contact with an acausal being who can perform the task. The problem is we are separated by the layers of realities between us. We are on opposite sides of a glass wall. On my side of the wall he looks like a drooling elf who seems to enjoy juggling. On his side of the wall his name isn’t stumpy and he isn’t bound by form or time.
Our perceptions as magicians will always shape the experiences we are having, even when we are in contact with something substantial and real. Even after we get to where we can soul travel and evoke to physical form we are still interacting with a proxy created by our perception to relay the information to us.

The reason many westerners don’t really incorporate foreign traditions is because many of us avoid traditions entirely. I view any tradition in terms of useful bits of data among an ocean of bullshit.

Man please, Westerners have traditions just like anyone else. As a Westerner, we have a prevalant tradition of being arrogant, invasive, and conformity to ideals that make us look like the coolest kid on the block. There might be some Western magical technique, and then someone introduces something that is eerily similar, but far more in-depth from an Eastern perspective (I am just using it as an example). Rather than addressing this particular technique with interest and humility, you are far more likely to see reductionism at large so as to wipe out the usefulness of the non-western technique.

We just think that if we don’t want to do something, then it is meritless. what’s wrong with being nomadic, and how is it any less advanced than the Western ideal of living? We got tons of cool gadgets, and yet folks can’t even do simple shit like multiplication without a calculator. People looking at me like I should be a math God simply because I can do 3-digit multiplication in my head in about 10 seconds… and I am 26!! You learn multiplication in 2nd grade, why is that amazing?

So we have plenty of traditions; drinking beer during sports, getting fucked up at the clubs when we are in college, morally subjective viewing of other cultural paradigms… we aren’t any different. We’re just a little bit more upfront about the traditions we do break, and the habit of being “rebels” has turned into a pretty ignorant and petty tradition itself. I’m not saying every Westerner is like that, and I personally don’t do it either. But that came from personal life experience and observation of traditions themselves, rather than denouncing them based on my preconceived cultural superiority, know what I mean?

Your talking about the culture at large, she is addressing western magicians. As was I… and from my observation very few western magicians follow any particular tradition with the fervor found in other cultures.

Well what appeals at large is many times just as inherent in the proponents of the culture, which includes the magicians in it. Western magick culture is one in which various forms of reductionism, invasiveness, and superiority complexes that is present within the society at large. Westerners have a huge tradition of adopting surface-level practices from other cultures for very little regard of their context. which magick is not different.

The chakra system is a perfect example. Many Western systems have adopted the chakra system as something important. However, they have only taken things they like, which they deem as the “necessary” components, and then throw out the rest. However, if looked at without the Western bias, the traditional methods of working with the chakras is done for an extremely practical reason, rather than the narrow analysis on “necessary vs unnecessary” that is often done in the West.

Due to this, most people training their chakras, magicians most especially, are not only missing huge points in chakra development, they are developing at a WAY slower pace. Instead of even entertaining that the whole thing might actually have important value, such as a yogic sadhana, they say, “I don’t need to do all that, all that meditation and asana practice isn’t necessary”. One thing I have done is a decent deal of chakra work, and the stuff I learned from people doing things in the traditional manner was a thousands times more potent after one session that a month worth of “Westernized” chakra work.

I agree that the practices are not as fervently approached in the West, but no other culture is more willing to strike something as necessary or unnecessary as Westerners, often time without personally trying or even studying what they criticize at length. The parts of other magic systems that revolve around developing character strength are also looked at as useless, but funny thing is that when a technique discusses gaining power, Westerners will flock to it like flies to a shitpile. Developing character is not really where the “power is” for a lot of magicians, but having known magicians from several different cultures, Western magicians are not only the weakest, but they are also the most confused and personally dishevelled. I’m not saying this is across the board all the time, nor am I championing other cultures as superior, but Westerners are definitely not devoid of tradition. They just will not follow a particular medium fully if it has stuff they don’t like in it. But that method of discrediting activity is a tradition itself, and Westerners are fervent followers of it.

I do not believe reduction is so much an issue, so much as a complete lack of personal insight and experimentation. They are dissolving but not recreating. I agree that lack of personal character is an issue, but I just think this has more to do with a horrible work ethic. They want everything without any effort and this sense of complacency limits how far they will go in their journey.

You know, I can agree with what you are saying about the reductionism, it by itself is not is not a problem. It’s like discrimination, folks say that discrimination is bad just because it has been most popularized in it’s ignorant forms: racism, sexism, classism (and that ignorance is a problem from both the “oppressor’s” and the “oppressed’s”). However, discrimination at it’s heart is the reason we are alive; discrimination keeps you from jumping out a window, keeps you eating with a fork rather than jamming the fork in your eye… the differentiation ability is completely necessary (for now at least). So discrimination is not bad, and neither is reductionism. i wasn’t attempting to imply that, but I might have since I’m working with words who’s context I understand, but I might be making clear to others.

Yea, when it doesn’t appeal, it’s hard to allow yourself to even fathom the usefulness because of whatever excuse that can be thought of to rationalize just not wanting to do something. I can tell you, Tantric sadhanas are extremely powerful, and I have yet to find ANY western body of work that has produced that much experiential power at one time. However, it can be very conflicting with Western modes of living. I don’t carry much of the ideals or practices of an average Westerner, and I still found myself bowing out of doing it.

Rather than saying it was useless, it didn’t work, or that it was primitive, I just had to admit that I was in over my head. I had too much I was trying to do , all this shit with my health, and could not honestly perform it with the integrity I felt it needed. Was that due to the sadhana’s ineffectiveness? No, not in the slightest. But it was not something I was going to be able to accomplish good work with until I took care of more basic shit.

It would be that simple to describe, but there is a Western tendency to place the focus on the technique itself as incompatible, rather than saying that they just aren’t going to see themselves doing it because of various factors. And it tends to halt the Western ability to actually assimilate and create effective magick from various cultures, because there is already a mindset that you are going to be looking at something “stupid” or “unnecessary”.

I say to each of his own, separate blood and separate lands, that creates diversity and richment of ideas.

Eurocentrism is indeed very wide spread in western culture, as well as western occultism. This is not a phenomenon that only appears in European-derived cultures though. Other cultures, throughout the globe, tend to see their own culture as superior. The wise ones never really do though, since they realize that it’s all a matter of perspective and preference.
The truth is the light that illuminates the lamp. And it shines through different windows. What unconscious people do is arguing about which window is more pretty to see the light coming through.
So it’s not really a matter of xenophobia, but rather one of the scope of our understanding.
By the way, I live in Europe, and trust me, xenophobia and narrow mindedness is just as common over here as in the us. No other country is as diverse as the us, and if people realize it or not, it’s one of the most accepting of other cultures in the world.