Greetings all,

I wanted to ask the more experienced BALG Forum members about Pacts. As we approach Wednesday July 17th, 2013 it has become quite evident that in order for me to attain certain Godlike powers, and to achieve certain goals here on the temporal/mundane, I must enter into Pacts.

From what I can gather (and yes it sounds rather obvious), Pacts are nothing more than contracts. Now, in a former life, when I was the EVP of a High-Tech consulting company, I dealt with the T’s & C’s (terms & conditions) of contracts all the time. It’s a major pain in the ass. Not everyone in this life is honorable and about doing “good business”. You know, delivering goods and or services in a timely manner and exceeding the clients expectations, as to “get even more business”!

I’ve never entered a Pact with an Entity before, but from conversations with various BM here, in order for me to get what I want and to get to where I want to go…I must face the proverbial music.

From my business experience, the BEST contracts were ones that were:

  1. Realistic
  2. Flexible
  3. Addressed the needs and wants of BOTH parties
  4. Included SLA’s (Service Level Agreements)
  5. Were reviewed often

*NOTE: numbers 1 -5 are examples just to name a few.

I have NO PROBLEM saying to EVERYONE here on the BALG Forum that I’m rather fearful of making such contracts.


Because I don’t fully understand how such agreements "really’ work, and I don’t understand how the Demons/Entities really work either? One of the things that made me a pretty shrewd businessman is my due diligence. My ability to research and define that which it is that I WANT for my company and then myself. Also, and this is of extreme importance, that which the clients wanted too!

With that being said, I’d like for other members to answer some or all of the following questions please.


  1. Please don’t share your “opinion”. I’m not interested AT ALL in other practitioners “opinion” regarding this. To me, and I believe to A LOT of other members here on BALG, this is something NOT to be taken lightly. So don’t answer unless you have EXPERIENCE …your personal experience is what I’m interested in.

  2. I want to hear about your failures too. The success…of course. But I want to hear what NOT to do, and what definitely NEVER to do!

  3. Because of the subject matter, if you feel more comfortable sharing your insights with me via PM, please do so. If you go this route, I will not share the info…I will respect that.

OK…let’s get started shall we?

Pact Questions

  1. Why is it that I continually hear that Demons are out to fuck us humans over? Wouldn’t it behoove them to deliver more than expected and quicker than expected so I keep coming back"

  2. Outside of my disciplines of Yoga, Meditation, and Magick…I’m primarily a businessman. Now, I’m of the school that If I deliver before deadline, deliver more than what was asked, and do it in a professional manner that I’ll probably get repeat business and maybe some referrals.

In theory I’m thinking that perhaps this is how Pacts might work? However, as someone who has never entered into a Pact it’s very possible I’m being extremely naive. The above is how I work and what I strive for…it’s just good business. However, I know that other people don’t work like this.

How naive am I BALG? Am I mis-informed to believe that Demons (or at least some of them) work like people?

  1. How much “wiggle room” is their in such Pacts? the absolute BEST professional relationships I ever had were ones that were flexible. If I didn’t meet certain goals by the end of the quarter, perhaps I didn’t get the $10,000 bonus. I kept my job, and learned from my experience, and at that point had the assistance of let’s say the CEO or a board member (this is an example). In fortifying a business empire, key people are never fired every time they fail. Great companies and managers look at what else they can do to assist the key people in any said company.

I would expect that I would have “meetings” with the Demons or entities and collectively work at achieving the goals. Again, am I being naive here? Am I thinking about this too much like a business?

  1. Usually, the greater the reward the greater the risk. For instance, If I’m a founder of a company or have founder shares in a small start-up that someday might grow into millions, this is usually done because of my sweat equity (hard work or knowledge). I’ll give you my knowledge NOW, and YOU will just amke it up to me on the back end with 10% of all your earnings for 3 years…let’s say.

Well, I might be willing to do this, however, I’m not going to literally give away my entire fucking company to ANYONE. With that being said, I’m not just going to hand my head over to The Devil…or am I? Literally.

I’m kinda a free-agent type of guy. I like working with other people of like mind, with a single goal in mind, that truly is going to benefit ALL of us.

Are these lofty human ideals to think that Demons would have my best interests in mind and at heart, as I would theirs, just like we were both working on founding a company together? Shieeeettt…I’m just a lowly human who is young, dumb, and full O’ Spiritula cum.

  1. Yes, I have an obsession if you will with The Occult, with Black Magick, with wanting to be happy, and wanting happiness for my family and friends. My ideas of ethics and morality are different than most peoples, and even other Black Magician’s…which is fine.

Is it possible to have working relationships with these entities and truly care? Now, I know what some of you might be saying to yourself…

“Mode take the tampon out son!!! This is BLACK MAGICK!!! YOU are SUPPOSED TO BE OUT FOR YOURSELF!!!”

Yeah, I get it, but try to have a child and tell your 3 year old “Not now honey…mummy is only out for herself”. Or try starting a business and telling your employees on payday “Sorry fuckers, I don’t have your pay, I’m ONLY out for myself”.

YES, I Mode_439 AM out ONLY for myself…but within reason. I come first in EVERYTHING, then the people that I love. This exercise has really made me think about what my own personal Morals & Ethics are, what I feel are things I’ll put up with and things I won’t.

So please, whatever may follow now regarding comments I welcome. Attack my views if you must, my thoughts, my naivety…



What guarantees any human that the contract they make with a spirit will be respected by the spirit itself ? You guys say you can control spirits…
You can order them and command them…
But if you make a contract with a spirit…
…and that same spirit disrespects the contract, would you order him or command him to respect it ? How would that come out ?

You’re gonna punch the spirit and tell him : " Hey you missed this line of the contract, please do it well "

When it comes to pact making, you are entering into a spiritual agreement with an entity. The agreement should be mutual, you gain knowledge, power, protection influence, in exchange for the demon being allowed to use his power to influence the physical world. There is some kind of special merger of powers when a black magickian connects with a demon, there is nothing like it. The demon also gains from your offerings and sacrifices made. Could be a song, or art, or candles and incense. Could be blood or semen too. What ever you agree to uphold your end of the pact. You could offer to spread the name of a certain demon to other people. Azazel likes that kind of stuff. During your pact, you should have regularly scheduled meetings with the demons and his assistants. Go over strategy, plans, progress, learn, commune, evolve as a magickian.

[quote=“sunas, post:2, topic:1322”]What guarantees any human that the contract they make with a spirit will be respected by the spirit itself ? You guys say you can control spirits…
You can order them and command them…
But if you make a contract with a spirit…
…and that same spirit disrespects the contract, would you order him or command him to respect it ? How would that come out ?[/quote]

You would obviously want to have a good working relationship with whatever entity you choose to pact with beforehand. Having a solid relationship where a mutual benefit is agreed upon and you feel comfortable with the entity is key. A pact would be the next step in that relationship. Much like you wouldn’t move a girl in you just started dating and you wouldn’t ask her to marry you after the second date.

You wouldn’t allow an entity you just came in contact with to have that much influence or control, that would be just dumb. It would be the same as trusting a perfect stranger you just me with all your personal/financial information and trusting them not to screw you.

One could protect themselves in their arrangement by using the authority of a higher being to ensure the entity you pact with hold to its terms of the agreement, you could also insist in the pact that if the entity doesn’t hold to its end of the agreement that you are released from the pact.

Last year in september I made a pact with Azazel (yeah, the dude has a busy live with all those pacts hehe).
Mind you, this is the only pact I ever made so I can only speak about Azazel. Keep this in mind 'cause there are no two demons alike. So the advice of TWF is good,… get to know the entity first. Take your time in getting acquainted before you go to the next level.

I don’t really like the word “contract”. I see a pact more as an alliance and I think it should be made up like this. A contract always reminds me of the famous “small print” which is always to be found on contracts and by which many people get screwed over. If you approach a pact with the mentallity of a lawyer you will be dissappointed. See, I don’t think that you can outsmart a demon such as Azazel by building in some “backdoors”. The way I made up the pact was by including what I did NOT want.
So you might wanna include terms such as “Unless…” or “except…” (fill in the blanks). Don’t go for “small print” but just be clear about your “do’s and dont’s”. Keep it simple and clear.
I want to add here that your chosen entity most likely knows you long before you heard his name. He knows your strenghts and your flaws, your feelings and your thoughts.
This you should also keep in mind: when a contract is signed between employee and employer, or between seller and client, usually the people involved are total strangers for eachother. Not so with a demon. I quote E.A.: “What every Grimmoire has neglected to mention, what every mentor has failed to warn of, is that the moment that you meet with a demon, that demon will in that instant have been with you from the beginning and will endure with you untill the end”. ~~ The Book of Azazel ~~

Now about the flexibility: Azazel most definitly allows room to wiggle. You ask about failure, well it is by failure that I found out that Azazel is most flexible. I’m ashamed to admit it but there has been a time when I didn’t live up to my part of the deal. I got distracted by a bunch of “worldly” matters and I gave those things priority. For over a month I didn’t do what I promised. But in the end, fear started to kick in. You know, we are all so brainwashed by 2.000 years of Christianity that we almost always, be it maybe on a subconscious level, fear that punishment will follow if we do not live up to the “commandments”.
So, after a while I decided to evoke Azazel again just to know where I was at. I asked him: “Why did you leave me alone all this time. You must be very dissapointed in me (Yeah, I used to humanise him, but they don’t think like we humans do).” The answer he gave me was pure and simple: “If you live up to your part of the pact, then so will I. But if you don’t, then neither will I. All you accomplish by not sticking with the pact is slowing down your own ascent”.

So yeah, Azazel is flexible. But once again, I can’t stretch this enough, I don’t know how other demons would react. I don’t want to know how e.g. Belial or Amaymon would react.

As for the rest of it: What Zechariah and TWF said.

I hope this post helps you a little.

  1. From my experience they aren’t so much out to fuck us as teach us a lesson. Especially the “careful what you ask for” lesson. The first time I evoked a demon it was Astaroth. I was sloppy and honestly wasn’t ready to evoke anything. Astaroth showed up and slapped the shit out of me. It physically hurt. I learned a valuable lesson from that.

  2. I don’t know if you can put a timeline on them. I have gotten things faster than expected and slower. I have asked for things as a rush and they were delivered.

  3. Don’t have an answer for this one except I suspect the “wiggle room” is based on how you word the pact.

  4. I don’t think they have your best interest at heart. Again for this question I think it is all in how you word the pact.

  5. Are you asking can “you” start to care for a demon or entity. Absolutely. Try working with Lillith and see what happens. As far as them caring for you, I believe they care about what they can get from you not about you.

Hopefully I didn’t put too much “opinion” in my answers. If you want to work with Lillith, send me a PM.

Remember you don’t have to give more than you are comfortable with. ie: trade your soul for something. Offering blood or spreading their name has been sufficient in my workings. I look at these “contracts” as more of “you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours.” Contract sounds too complicated. ; )

Dear Azesiel,

No…heehee…you didn’t put toooo much “opinion” in your reply.

I put that in my post because all too often in some other posts here on BALG, I’ve found people sharing their opinion when experience was being asked for. Basically, I wanted to hear from people who actually have done!!! Not from an armchair enthusiast.

Please, to Azesiel et al…I meant that comment to the armchairs. NOT to people that I consider my friends, allies, and that I’ve grown to respect. You know who you are (I hope?).

Regarding the “caring” part - well it’s a process with certain limits. In business, yeah I care about people and if they are satisfied with my service & products etc. I doesn’t mean I care about them like I’m going to have them over for a sleep over, popcorn, and a pool party!!! But i get it.

I like what Bran wrote. “I see a pact as more of an alliance”. That pretty much sums it up.

@Mode - have you worked with an entity that you felt an attraction/strong admiration towards? I assume we all have our favorites but some see to “grow” on you.