The Missing Element?

General Discussion
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Worldwide, people use entheogens to connect to spirits, some theories say we would never have made spiritual breakthroughs without them, and/or that the gods (aliens, interdimensional beings etc) have placed them in primate hands to facilitate evolution, or awaken implanted abilities.

But despite people calling DMT the “spirit molecule,” external sources of this don’t appear to be a pre-requisite for all cases of spirit contact, and no single universally agreed formula exists - some people use fasting, sleep deprivation, vitamins and other supplements (or defecits) to affect brain chemistry, other people use nothing except intent.

IS THERE a missing element, even? Or do we need to be lifted just a fraction outside ordinary thought, to percive this stuff? Are crazy people whose brains are really souped up with weird chemistry actually closer to the natural state than those of us who think we’re “sane”?

Thoughts, anyone? :slight_smile:

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Personally, if someone need an External Substance to communicate with the Spirit World, i say stay away from Magick, Its just my own Opinion, but for all these Substance Have more Negative Point then Positive one,

I mean, i never take any Substance to enter the Spirit World and i’m able to see and hear spirit very well, And i believe many Other can also do the same,

Just my own Opinion.

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With you mostly there for sure, I was doing this aged 8, 12, etc., and never a thing stronger than cough medicine had passed my lips.

But I have used ayahuasca too, and I don’t think use of trad. entheogens in traditional rites is problematic. And I’ve had some powerful magickal experineces (that made results happen) when extremely hungover, as well, so while I dislike alcohol and drugs in general, I can’t ignore those experiences.

Interestingly it was a spirit who asked me to write this, I may or may not write more about that situation soon.

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Interessting to know thanks for Sharing!

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EA wrote a poigniant line concerning this issue in Evoking Eternity. He declares that once someone imbibes mind altering drugs they can no longer properly be considered the operator as they are at the mercy of their altered state. “They claim that one must be high in order to be spiritual, rather why not be spiritual in order to go higher.”

I think that is a beautiful rule of thumb. However there is most certainly a chemical/ psychological element to spirit contact. I think its the road that one travels to get there that is most important.

That being said there are certainly exceptions, no rule is laid in stone. I had a full on reality shift when I combined deep meditation and marijuana.

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I’m thinking it’s more what drugs (and sleep dep., fasting etc) DO, than what they ARE, that matters.

Lifts us into a fictional state in our own universe, to become the (co-) authors, maybe?

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Caveat: this response is made under the influence of alcohol so please consider if there are any obvious flaws in my post as I simply cannot post with the same clarity sober.

I have not used DMT or ayahuasca yet, so I am not qualified to comment on those. Going to Iquitos, Peru for the ayahuasca, shamanistic jungle experience is on my bucket list. I have used salvia divinorum and I can say it was a life changing and humbling experience. It’s one of those experiences that is so ineffable I cannot put it into words really . It transcends human language. For me it was instant gnosis, both terrifying and awe inspiring and it gave me intuitive knowledge I cannot put into words. Different people have different experiences but my experience with salvia is always like a popping sound in my ears with a physical sensation that I am having an OOBE where I launch out of the top of my head. I would not trade my salvia experiences for anything. I have been all over the world and have had lots of cool experiences over the course of my life but I have to say salvia is the most profound thing I have ever experienced. As a matter of fact, I hold it as a psychedelic standard against things like LSD and psilocybin.

That is a great question. I don’t know if it puts one more in a more natural state but it may certainly sometimes be a more expanded state. I am reading a fascinating book called The Daemon: A Guide To Your Extraordinary Self by Anthony Peake where he discusses how he believes within each person resides an eidelon and a daemon. One inhabits each hemisphere of the two in the brain with the eidelon being the “I” or ego, the conscious you, and the daemon being the hidden more unconscious you. He proposes that your daemon operates in an alternative reality in a sense while your eidelon is operating in the normal human plane. My suspicion (and experience) makes me think that some of these “mentally ill” states are a condition where the brain is experiencing more of the daemon side than it is normally supposed to hence there is this strange ambiguous mental duality going on that transcends everyday perception that incorporates both the daemon and the eidelon as the daemon is brought to a more mentally equal level with the eidelon instead of on the backburner or more submissive level where it normally resides.

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All just Bio-Chemistry/Bio-Electricity. The same bad effects you experience with drugs can also be experienced if you magickally induce it Strong enough.

Its just that its easier to attain drugs to do it; but when doing it through any ritual practice other than drugs its easier to gain an amount of control with the guidelines of your practice and Will.

Oh and the deal with Crazy People, they are normally like pre-packaged damaged goods, meaning… it allows certain things, but there are also likewise certain things off about them. If one had a structured and scientific approach to attaining an ability and strengthening it then one could do so without all the Weaknesses of being a Crazy person.

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[quote=“Lady Eva, post:1, topic:7726”]IS THERE a missing element, even? Or do we need to be lifted just a fraction outside ordinary thought, to percive this stuff? Are crazy people whose brains are really souped up with weird chemistry actually closer to the natural state than those of us who think we’re “sane”?

Thoughts, anyone? :)[/quote]

Ordinary thought is pretty much the EGO which is the barrier between the objective reality and obtaining grasp of the spiritual world in a very tangible way.
Once that obstacle is out of the way, anything is possible.

In general we dont seem to realize how big the EGO is and how strongly cemented it is in our consciousness and the multi-layer structure of it. Its a door upon a door upon a door and so on, it`s the reflection of a mirror in a mirror.

I dont believe that throughout the documented history, over the last few millennia, has anyone actually managed to surpass this barrier. If anyone did, then he/she became a God, so itd be impossible for mortals to document such event.
Some passed a few layers with most stuck in the superficial structures. Admittedly and this is well documented, those who went a little deeper used hallucinogenics or narcotics.

Pythia who was the Oracle of Delphi and the most powerful divination system of Ancient times, was kept on a constant trance, by inhaling hydrocarbon gases. Even then, the revelations of God Apollo she was putting forth were pretty much gibberish, as her EGO was integrating with the God`s consciousness, and a whole army of translators was needed to decipher them.

In all honesty, i dont believe that the EGO can be surpassed effectively without external support. Unless we find a way to make our pineal gland more active or control it on demand. Maybe in the future we can use quantum machines that can colonize it and turn up its functionality. When that happens, itll be a massive turning point for the advancement of our civilization. Many scholars say that this is the next logical step for humanity anyways.

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Quantum Machines. Reminds me of that Japanese Anime “Ghost in the Shell.” Awesome movie series. There is of course this idea that people are going it alone to bypas their own ego. But some would bypass this by working in Pairs or a 3’s and would help out to an extent when certain people in group would govern different functions.

It kind of reminds of certain relationships like in the movie Batman or Ironman where you have a Man out in he Field operating machinery, while back at base you have the Assistant like Alfred on the Supercomputer. Other examples is one has a Hypnotist or Guide and then one having a certain experience. I recall that reading cases about Military RV they used 2+ teams.

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Wouldnt each person of that group have its own ego, thatd affect everyone elses ego? Thus establishing a collective ego by distillation! A miniature of a larger group (we could call it society) that in unison creates a paradigm?

We would have to find a way to create operators with no ego to begin with and have them to do our workings. Like the precogs in Minority Report. Yet again, how are you going to command something that doesn`t have ego?.

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Well obviously the NWO and The Mark of the Beast. LOL. Give you implants.

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I find your thought on the mentally ill highly interesting, having a variety of mental problems myself. I hope to hear more on your findings, Lady Eva.

I wish you the best of luck in tour endeavors.

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Hope to reply more to some other posts later this week, but re: this, I did have severe clinical depression most of my life (now cured, heh), and I think that partially acted as a launchpad for the RHP stuff I was at that time committed to, and that the two together helped me breach reality and attain merger with Source, from which I was able to some extent to control material manifest reality through thought alone.

I was desperate to get “out” (of my body, my self, existence of any kind) and depression that bad does a number on your ego that probably has serious energetic effects on whatever structure usually keeps us self-contained. I’ve known a lot of very powerful healers who were afflicted with crippling depression, as well.

I posted more about my experiences here.

It also seems to me that having a rather obsessive over-thinking mind is quite useful in magick, IF you can keep the reins on it, because it permits an intensity and focus that holds up well to the force of will and desire of various spirits, especially “demons.”

I love this quote:

IMO mental… peculiarity can be a tool, and so long as it can be used that way, then it’s a powerful resource for the magician.

My 2¢. :slight_smile:

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Mood, dissociative disorders and trauma, are certainly a good base for working with magic for the sole reason that sufferers can apply great focus, to the point of becoming obsessed, with specific things because of the underlying need to escape reality (in most cases) which in extend makes them more “open” in accepting new paradigms.

As a few friends psychologists of mine say, this is not the case with psychotic disorders though. That is a completely different ‘beast’ altogether. A schizophrenic for example, is absorbed into this psychotic state that is a disconnection from all realities but the construct of his ego.
Interestingly enough although many people with psychotic disorders appear as they’re in a constant live connection with spirits (for eons madness was a synonym for possesion and treated as such) quite the opposite is believed to be true, for the reason that their ego is solid as. Trying to hypnotize or do a reading on one and you’ll find yourself hitting a brick wall. Another proof for that is the fact that they show no sign of magickal powers whatsoever.

Admittedly though psychotics are extremely capable in creating egregores and imprints. No one can deny that asylums and psychiatric clinics are packed to the rafters with such things.

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Now, yes - not so sure this is true of the psychotic person in a society where the ego construct includes spirit contact as part of “the way things are” - I’ve also seen some people in London walking round waving their arms and randomly swearing at shit they could see - and I could see it too.

I think malicious spirits attach to people like this early on and feed from them, by prodding them and stuff, but that kind of heavy mental disorder whereby someone may not know what’s real is kind of outside my capacity to discuss from the inside, so I’ll leave that there for now.

Iam Incide, I SO want to get stuck into your post, especially with ref. to Schertel’s book, I basically agree with everything I think you wrote and wanted to spark off that, but my day’s been a living hell of mundanity so the Eva-Bot will be offline for serious thought until tomorrow. :slight_smile: