The best way to learn magic

General Discussion
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this is something i asked Azazel about in my lessons from him.

1: the BEST, BEST, way to learn magic is from your parent of the same sex. father to son or mother to daughter.

2: the next best way to learn magic is directly from the spirits.

3: a not so great way to learn magic is from magical orders.

4: and the WORST, the absolute WORST way to learn magic is from an anthropological or archaeological stand point.

Azazel went into detail on this. trying to decipher the ultimate secrets off the temple walls or studying the books of those who have tried is an exercise in futility. the truest mysteries will NEVER be found in a popular book on magic, no matter who wrote it. you are much better off trying to summon(evoke) the spirits of that culture and learn the spells from them.

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So, how did you first hear about Azazel?

I’m sorry, I also don’t have books at the core of my practice, because I’ve always preferred to learn directly from spirits, but this current fad on forums for saying books are worthless, when in reality almost everything anyone ever learns PLUS the existence of an occult/magickal subculture at all PLUS the way most of us hear about new spirits, that ALL comes from books!

And Azazel must be looking at some other planet if he thinks everyone has a same-sex parent who’s a committed mage and can teach them, I mean that kind of oral tradition is where some cultures have ended up hidebound in tradition and with their “paths” being more about mindlessly kissing the ass of your elders and doing things exactly as they did them, than true magick.

All you need is one inept, dumb, or disinterested person every few generations for the whole structure to fall apart… and since not everyone is into magick, just like not everyone is into sport or sex or cooking, this is inevitable.

What about parents with several kids, or a learning diasbled kid who takes up more time, or a career in some area they’re 100% dedicated to? That AND teaching all their children all the magick, is that really ever going to happen?!

I’ve learned plenty from books, usually not from following them word for word, but by reading between the lines. Whether it’s intended or not I don’t know, but there are genuine mysteries available to be doscovered that way.

Oral history is incredibly vulnerable and also excudes people in a way I don’t think is healthy.

JMO.

(Oh and btw I’m also not afraid to disagree with a spirit where I think I know more about human life than them. It is what it is, I appreciate their input but their lives are NOT like ours and sometimes, even when they try their hardest, they just don’t completely “get it.” IMO taking every word a spirit utters as “gospel” - pun intended - just because they happen to be a spirit is a semi-religious approach and NOT the act of a magician. No offence intended!)

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i have to agree with Lady Eva’s intial statement. But maybe Belial is talking about A god parent relationship. In any atr you have a godparent that you are born from into that religion. So in essence they are like your spiritual parent. I can’t see myself haveing a god parent to teach me that’s a woman. I wouldn’t respect her the same way that I would a man. So I do agree with that point. Spirits look at things differently then we do. In Africa everybody in the village that is older then you is considered your father or Mother. When you talk to any Orisha you adress them as Mother or Father. Even if they aren’t your spiritual parents. This just reinforces my point.

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We will have to agree to disagree.

Respectfully I submit it is in tomes that we find priceless information about magick.

Now its just my opinion, however discernment is another matter altogether. Intentional blinds and errors are rampant in written works and only experience working with a ritual or entity will reveal streamlined ways to work and or eliminate entire proceedures. Goetic requirements of insane ingredients only serve to keep the masses at bay.

But like sex, you can read about it and learn nothing. It is in the repeated performance with an effort to excell where we find skill.

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fad huh? like magic lessons should be free, and maybe the books dont have the answers we need…not to mention the record numbers of people world wide returning to magic and paganism in the first place? if so many voices call out for the same thing spontaneously it might not be a fad.

now i never said any of these methods were doable. just what is the best way for an aspiring magician to absorb information.

i do see what you are saying about books but it has to be argued that most of what is printed on the subject of magic is worthless bullshit.
truer truths cannot be found on a page.

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There’s really only two ways a human being can learn anything in life, one is the ‘outer path’ from sources such as other people, books, courses, seminars, forums etc. The other method is the ‘inner path’ where we learn ourselves, and from other deeper sources such as spiritual contact and out of body experiences.

I think initially, we have to take the outer route to gain a framework and grounding within the knowledge we seek. The majority will of course read books and exchange views on mediums like we have here on BALG and other interactive environments.

If you are lucky enough to have an experienced practitioner of the black arts handy and willing to take you under their wing then so much the better, although you will be limited to what they know and what they value in terms of magical practice. So in this respect, you are restricted with a teacher as you must not go against their views or the rapport could easily get severed.

(Don’t forget to ask teacher where they got their knowledge from and how they became experienced, not to mention what it has done for them?)

We do need that initial contact from the outside world however to give us a foundation to base our own creativity on, which can then take us into the inner world of learning where we put our knowledge into operation and start becoming more inspired to do ‘our own thing’ and reach out more to spirit for guidance. This is the path that I follow but you cannot dive straight into this inner path or you would get lost, deluded or more than likely fail and give up.

When you built this type of house it needs a good foundation, which could take you a lifetime before you put the roof on, so it pays to get a good all round knowledge at first from as many outside sources as you can find, or you may simply restrict your eventual learning capacity.

You can then start exploring those paths which appeal to you the most taking each one further down their own respective rabbit holes into the inner paths and worlds far beyond our own.

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No other subject is taught for free (taxes pay for state-run education) so whatever.

Do you do your job for free? Do shops hand out food for free, just because it grows from the earth as a gift from “God”?

Are your electricity, clean drinking water, clothing in winter, all free?

I met a few people who brought out that argument when I was into the whole healing and “love and light” thing, and the argument falls apart the moment you stop assuming a split between magickal and mundane, and realise that money is just a form of energy like any other - including time, and the teacher or healer’s investment in improving their own skill, which is usually ongoing.

And that healers, magicians,. and teachers all need to eat and a place to live and so on.

Honestly 99% of the people I see claiming this stuff online are justifying the entitlement-mindset that’s become prevalent in the internet-era of easy downloads and torrent sites.

They demand “respect” and no doubt expect to be paid for their work (or get their welfare cheques on time anyway) and yet parrot the slacker mantra “information wants to be free” - which really means, “if you’re an information-industry worker, I have a half-baked philosophy to hand ready to make me feel righteous about screwing you.”

The rest are using magickal forms of acting and working, but really treating it like a religion, with heirarchies and dogma, and fixed grades etc.

Good luck to people who enjoy that, it has its place in the wider “ecology” of the occult world and the people who are into it seem sincere and committed, but I think you’ll find black magicians can see through that line - there’s no such thing as a free lunch, so anyone claiming to be able and willing to take your spiritual and magickal evolution in hand for zero cash recompense, you can bet you’ll be paying through the nose in some other way.

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I agree with Lady Eva on her last past. Nothing is truly free. Even if something did not cost YOU anything, someone else had to pay for your freebie in one way or another whether it be thru taxes or making a donation so your child could have that free backpack full of school supplies. Being a seller, I often hear “I want free shipping!” “Can you offer me free shipping?” And often followed by “Well why not, the Chinese sellers do it all the time!”. Because those who only buy and have never sold online are not aware that the U.S.P.S. is losing millions of dollars because the U.S. govt worked out a deal with China and they can ship almost anything they want for free, that’s why they can offer free shipping.

Other people though, U.S. citizens shipping to China, U.K citizens shipping to the U.S. we don’t get that luxury, we have to pay and the rates keep increasing yearly as the U.S. post offices are forcing everyone else to pay higher rates fo basically make up for the free shipping from China, we are basically paying higher rates to cover their costs. Buyer don’t know this, so if you don’t give in to unreasonable demands like, I want your item for $1.50 with free shipping because so and so from China does it, they just won’t buy because they don’t understand that sellers in other countires have to pay for the shipping whether they charge you for it or not. Just because you put free shipping on an ebay listing doesn’t mean the post office will say okay then it’s free for you, they still charge us and we have to add the postage costs to our item costs to make up the difference when offering so called “free” shipping.

Magick is no different. People seem to view magick as similar to information, like lady Eva said, those who claim information wants to be free. First off, information is not alive it does not think for itself, and second, the person that gave you that information had to do a lot of work and research to get it for you. I have seen many online offering Eric’s books and courses for free so I could have easily taken the entire BALG program for free. Did I? No. Because it may not cost me anything but it costs Eric money in the long run. I know, some would say well as much as he charges and as often as he sells his courses he could afford to give a few away for free, it won’t hurt him. Maybe not right away, but if you give some for free then eventually everyone expects the same for free.

Eric (E.A.) charges for his courses and books because he put a lot of work into this program, years of work, and I know some would still argue well he did the work because he chose to do it for himself and just decided to share it with others later on, so why charge me just to relay that information to me? Well because it’s not free to relay information to others. You have to pay for the fancy cameras and editing software that allow you to make nice quality videos, you have to pay for book publishing even if you go the self publishing route, you have to pay for gas and possibly even hotel stays to travel to a university and give a seminar. None of that is free, so why should someone spend money to bring you information and not expect to get compensated for any of it in return?

The problem is, we have all been lead to believe that we deserve everything for free, that freebies are our RIGHT as humans! We never stop and think about the work a person had to do or the fees they had to pay to bring you the free product or information you got, we only think about the final product and think why should I have to pay you for standing here talking to me or because you wrote down your experiences and published them into a book?

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[quote=“WiseManEcho, post:1, topic:6039”]this is something i asked Azazel about in my lessons from him.

1: the BEST, BEST, way to learn magic is from your parent of the same sex. father to son or mother to daughter.

2: the next best way to learn magic is directly from the spirits.

3: a not so great way to learn magic is from magical orders.

4: and the WORST, the absolute WORST way to learn magic is from an anthropological or archaeological stand point.

Azazel went into detail on this. trying to decipher the ultimate secrets off the temple walls or studying the books of those who have tried is an exercise in futility. the truest mysteries will NEVER be found in a popular book on magic, no matter who wrote it. you are much better off trying to summon(evoke) the spirits of that culture and learn the spells from them.[/quote]

Like some of the others of me,I see this more of a loose guide to how to learn rather than a set of rules set in stone.

First off,I’ve contacted Azazel.I’ve asked him about my future,and my future family.He was SUPER VAGUE because obviously,he didn’t wanna give away much information.The only thing I really learned from this all is that my first child(note,he didn’t say firstborn,could very well be adopted),is going to be a girl.

The odds of me having a child with a muggle,are not very far off.In fact,they outweigh the chance of me meeting a witch.With that in mind,I may end up getting her into magick(or not).But she’d still be a beginner compared to one such as me(again,speaking hypothetically here)

So I know that I’m going to have a lot of knowledge and experience to offer.I also know,that children start out with a belief of solipsism.They are gods,in the flesh,and their supernatural powers and faculties only get dulled as they grow older.Thus,I consider early magical education to be very important.

So why would I relinquish full control over my daughter’s occult studies to my spouse,who I don’t know anything about in the present,simply because someone else’s experience with a demon I highly trust told him she would make a better teacher?

I also don’t know how many kids I’ll have.She may be the only child I have.

That being said,I know that many books are useless.I also know many people who believe this,and refuse to use books,claiming knowledge from the spirits themselves is the only path to knowledge.

But I,for one,and this is just my opinion,believe that there is no such thing as a 100% useless resource.That armchair theory text from a medieval churchly demonologist,that makes absolutely no sense?It still inspires the idea that demons are very real.Despite all the other crap in there,that fact is amplified in the mind of the ambitious black magician through the macabre imagery within.Imagery he will later on learn is very false.

And that armchair theory is just one example.Sure,many books are written from armchair theory,but many books are written from subjective synthesis.And the knowledge inside them comes from magickal parents,spirits and occult societies.

Think about that,all your other good resources have poured knowledge into those books.

Now the reason books are useless sometimes,is because not everything fits your system.

That’s why you’re the one tailoring your system to your needs instead of blindly following tomes to the letter.

The Goetia was written in the 17th century by a man(or woman) who was raised under a form of religious fanaticism that most of us haven’t been in.Sure,some of us were taught under it,some of us may even be amish people who simply strayed away,but if you’re practicing the occult,you’re gonna feel an empathy with the spirits,that’s so strong you’re gonna feel sorry for torturing them and bossing them around,something you wouldn’t feel if you had the idea that they’re the incarnation of evil drilled into your head.

Spirits are excellent teachers,that you should trust and learn from.Hands down,one of the best ways.However,few can learn to summon spirits without one of the other sources.

Orders are where many occult authors started.Even EA had the OAA.Crowley had the Silver Star.LaVey had the Church of Satan.Sure,they all founded them,but the knowledge is nonetheless,the order’s teachings.

Orders,however,have elitism,and form strong boundaries rather than vague boundaries in the level of the magician.To this day,I have no idea whether I’m an initiate,or a neophyte,or a master.And that’s one thing that’s pushing me through.

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