The benefits and dangers in using magick from different cultures

Geographic groups then - people born into and raised within Hindu philosophy.

I’m addressing and disagreeing with what you wrote here: “It’s just another eastern concept stepped in religion and culture.stolen away by western mystics.”

And: "But they shouldn’t STEAL and water down other cultures. A white man accepted by the lwas and initiated isn’t stealing, he is learning the religion properly and within its cultural context. A white man changing Aum while thinking about his third eye, without having been taught by those initiated in the proper traditions, IS.

If you can enhance your spiritual abilities without contributing to cultural appropriation, why not? If I can do it, you can as well.

But another issue asks I comes up… if you ignore the tradition from which the third eye originated, how are you going to properly handle it? These things don’t come without a rich tradition. They aren’t stand alone concepts."

The point of my argument is that removing practices you don't understand from a tradition you don't understand cannot possibly lead to a lasting and fulfilling spiritual practice.

Well I can understand you might not want to do it, but the evidence I see is different.

Spiritual technology aka magick (including energy work and so on) is as I see it a gift from the gods & spirits to mankind, and except where a spirit has said to someone “don’t share this, it’s secret” it belongs to all of us.

The funniest thing is, it was always white people worrying about it

Jake Statton-Kent makes the same point about this in one of his volumes of Geosophia.

If you truly believed it was a gift from the gods, why would argue in favour of people destroying that gift? That’s all people are doing.

I don’t understand what you mean?

Since I think these things are gifts, that means they should be openly taught, not hoarded (except, as I said, where the god/spirit said “Keep this to yourself”).

underlying principles teach you in general but to learn advanced ideas you will have to commit and specialize.

that depends on whether you can trust your teachers, and whether your foundations support what you put on top of them.

no.

yoga is great exercise. and hippies have taken the tight-assedness out of white culture to a large degree. you have to count your blessings when it comes to cross-culturalism.

a better question is, are you letting exoticism blind you to the fact that you can probably learn an as-good-if-not-better magickal system right where you are? the grass is not any greener on the other side. enochian magick is as hard as vodun any day of the week. the magick the jesuits do in italy is as hard as anything any yogi has ever done. german occultists do not take a backseat to any taoist or asian buddhist. advanced esoteric hypnotists can do just about anything you’ll get from a native american shaman. the pennsylvania dutch christian can do with the books of moses’ faustian magick and bible what any angolan can do with nkisi. french and australian satanists can be a fucking scary lot to mess with, as can the scientologists. and so on and so forth. you don’t have to travel around the world to find hard magick. there is just as hard if not harder magick being done right in your own region as anything you’ll get in haiti or brazil. anyone telling you differently is lying to you and probably has some type of agenda. the grass is not greener on the other side. i know that fact will make some of you mad, but truth is truth. the grass is not greener.

AND VICE VERSA. there are entire systems that borrow and mix western, eastern, and southern ideas. humanity is always changing and always learning. yes. from each other.

[quote=“proeng, post:1, topic:5761”]Most great magicians studied both eastern and western magic, EA Koetting, Franz Bardon, Aleister Crowley etc. So there is a clear correlation in mixing east and west gives great, great result.
Ready go discuss![/quote]
it’s really not that complicated. you can learn a ton by understanding general principles, but advanced learning in any field requires commitment and specialization.

i’m not convinced by the cultural appropriation mob any more than i would have been convinced by the european bigots who thought negromancy was inferior to european ceremony. those same tightwads omitted the substantial works of great magicians such as marie laveau and paschal randolph due to prejudice. i see the cultural appropriation brigade doing the same type of racial neutering in the future towards white borrowers but in a more passive-aggressive manner. either way i’m not impressed by those games of one-upsmanship. all honest communication is free exchange. secretiveness is a politrick move.

a more honest answer than ‘you can’t/shouldn’t mix’ would be ‘what they do isn’t useful in our system’ or ‘yeah that’s good for their way, but here in we do things differently. here is how we do it: .’ however, you will not get those types of dialogues going because everybody has an agenda.

Great post The Fool. I’ve actually gone from yoga, to just doing the five tibetans, and working on chakras, while trying to learn the more Western systems, like Goetic tradition and Enochian.

Euoi You continue to say that using techniques from other cultures destroy them if you don’t learn it from a initiate in that system. But i don’t see any problem even if people watered down sacred teaching. Take modern new age and occult books. There are allot of shit out there peddled to ignorant people, written by even more ignorant writers, meant to make money. Yes these books are watered down and practically useless, but that should not bother you. People who want to learn will continue to seek different books and resources and sooner or later they will stumble upon real information, from books and people who knows what they are talking about.

Guess what this “problem” exist in any field of study, for instance there are many books with titles like, learn programming in 24 days, or even 24 hours. Real programming takes years to really learn deeply, and these books are targeted at people who don’t understand that.

We live in the information age, the hidden is now being reviled of course there are still tons of word of mouth teachings in many cultures and systems, that will not be reviled yet, and yes these often require initiations. But there is nothing wrong in learning all you can that is openly published.

People can continue to dilute yoga until there is no spiritual value left, but the real thing will always exist no matter how many crappy books get printed. So the people who really want to learn, will find the real stuff that works. And some after years of practice, will not be able to stop themself in finding a guru to teach them.

If more people learned from other cultures we as humans would be a step closer to understand each other.

[Euoi] To be fair to you i’m trying to understand exactly what is your position, tell me if this is correct. You don’t want outsiders to dabble in others magickal system and or religion. They should stick to their own culture, but they can learn directly from a initiate from the system they want to learn.
So if i understand you, you don’t want people taking things from a system they don’t understand and use techniques without understanding their context, so in a sense you don’t like people to dabble but to really learn the systems they work with. So you don’t have a problem in people learning other cultures magickal systems, but you don’t like superficial learning. In this you belive that the only way to get this knowledge is by being initated into that system, not reading books. Is this what you mean, if not could you explain your position to me?

Yes, that is all I believe.