I strongly doubt whether the stories of any saints could have reached Africa except under Catholic missionary activity, and therefore it represents, perhaps, an evolution of the representation of these saints that has nothing to do with Catholicism.
That’s my polite way of saying they took the stories of Christian people taught by a Christian outreach organisation, and did what they wanted with them.
I would say, more power to all concerned, but it’s exactly the kind of thing that Euoi was protesting in another thread.
It's not that they are one in the same, you seem to be extrapolating a context that I was not expressing, but rather that they are so intertwined to try to do magic with the spirits of say Haitian Vodou could easily land someone in hot water.
No, I’m saying that Haitian Vodou resembles a religion in almost all ways, including the outspoken defence of orthodox methods that its adherents go in for online.
I’m not criticising their right to do that, although do bear in mind this forum in particular isn’t about religion so much as magick (the whole LHP thing) but, as with certain western trad. magicians for whom magick is “the great work” and akin to any other religious practice, views on what’s acceptable and what’s not are going to differ.
Not having the knowledge of how to care for such beings or how to cool them when they get hot. Most of what is written in books is incorrect and misleading. In fact, it's well known that legitimate priests deliberately give misinformation to people.
What’s their motivation for doing this?
The thing is: Spirits from a living tradition receiving service and everything they want from a hierarchy the established truly have no care for outsiders.
I don’t think, with respect, you can speak for ALL spirits from a living tradition there, and that living tradition would include Hinduism, which is where this conversation began on another thread.
I disagree with this based on, for a start, personal experience - I learned and got an intense and rapid “enlightenment” or whatever you wish to call it studying a Hindu system, from various teachers including an old lineage, that had been directly set up as a kind of “outreach” to those born outside India and Hindu families.
I had a change of direction, but it remains the seed experience from which all my other explorations grew.
Secondly, many people I’ve met who are serious healers, magicians, and general students have also worked with Hindu gods, specifically Ganesha, Durga, Lakshmi, and Saraswati, and while the system and process is very different to the methods someone would use to call a spirit from the Goetia, these gods didn’t turn these people away, or cause backfires, or anything of that kind.
And the living traditions of the ayahuasceros in south America seem very open to outsiders, welcoming in pretty much anyone who has the cash to pay, and most people I’ve ever met have come away from the experience with useful insights and no backlash.
Maybe Haitian Vodou is… special.
When the Lwa came to me they specifically told me to find an houngan and told me were to look. I wasn't looking for them. That's when you have something significant, when something unsought and unconsidered comes for you.
Yes, it’s happened to me and many others on here, and often from spirits who completely surprised us, in that they aren’t any part of our cultural inheritance.
But with respect, I don’t get what this has to do with your general point? That this happened to you doesn’t preclude the possibility of other spirits from living traditions approaching other people and working with them, outside an initiatory, or devotional, framework.