The ART of LISTENING!


#1

MAGE A: Why would a Satanist make use of anything that relate to YHVH??? You must NOT utilize Solomonic stuff, Hebraic letters etc. Do not perform any banishing! I hate YHVH. I wanna be an abomination to that god. I’m just saddened that my friend won’t listen.

MAGE B: You’re better off away from Yahweh’s baleful eye. You can’t work with both Yahweh and Ancient/Pagan Deities. If you do so, you’ll just piss all of them off! I can’t stand Yahweh. I heard and personally experienced so many bad things about him I just can’t with his stuff! You can perform non-Yahweh-related banishings. Lucifer is the male version of Venus.

MAGE C: Your ass is brainless. You don’t listen. You MUST wear the pentacle of Solomon when calling upon demons. YHVH refers to the elements. He’s the Creator. Lucifer is NOT Venus! WHO told you that! It’s freaking blasphemous! The male state is superior and Lucifer is NOT female!


#2

You lost me…


#3

I am obviously referring to contradicting advice I get from mages (none from this forum).


#4

If you’re reasonably satisfied that all mages, priests, tribal shamans etc were in touch with power before the names above became global currency then that seems to suggest they’re not essential, it then becomes a matter of choice which “current” so to speak you choose to work with, and how often. You can only judge that by your own results and what appeals to you on a gut level.

People tend to assume that what works for them is the best way, which then seems like the only way, and that’s why the advice is so scattered I think (hardly an original idea but as true here as it is about the “best” type of car or toothpaste).

That’s my opinion, I’m assuming your question is straighforward and has no hidden depths, and I’d tick “none of the above” fwiw.

After a few false turnings I’ve come to judge things by results, both material results and how they make me feel about myself, and not whether there’s a grand sounding philosophy behind them, or whether a really credible-seeming group of people say they’re the bee’s knees.


#5

Oh…yeah, obviously.

Sounds like you should look around for a particular group that you identify with and who’s views you agree with. All three answers are applicable or “right” depending on your views of Satan, Lucifer, YHVH etc., do your due diligence and find what feels right to you and quit listening to everyone on the forums. Forums can be as confusing and hindering as they can be helpful.

You could ask the spirits themselves and see how they prefer you work with them.


#6

To listen to what others has to say provides a suitable point of reference, in addition to the awareness of what these parties external to yourself do. Primarily, you can just use it as a means to learn a little more.

But in the end, what you do is -your- magick. You will need to find your own way which can be challenging at first, or it can be incredibly easy.

After that, perseverance and results is what counts. Beyond personal development.


#7
 I think ideas-concepts like this are more than a Which Idea sounds better choice, rather a question about what the underlying issue is in a question like this.   In other words, as I think Enlightener_Illuminator was writing, what really drives these different "world-views" is more than pick an idea by choosing a group to belong to (those issues are part of it)

Just as Magickal Systems work that focuses upon bringing up an Energetic Charge "A" and an Energetic Charge "B" and then experience the overlap of those two (the Venn Vesica Piscis to referecen a term); that area of overlap reveals some emergent properties....  and V-memetic structures (Language references, historical and interpretive-functional context, terminology and paradigm) have these overlaps of the "circuits" in the same way that developing neuron-pathways/coordination, or if call up Entity 1 and Entity 2 from different cultural systems in the same way as inviting 2 of your friends that are Each from Really Different worlds.. discover that common ground (which reveals a context of its own, if they are "really there" vs interpretation of them).

In other words, the “explanation” is not so significant but I find these are ways the verbal part of our system is also a system working out its structure and altering to fit these flows (in the same way that the physical body-structures adjusts to stronger… let alone variant energies flowing… and likewise Emotions “purified” and adjust). -we usually focus on is it or it is not flowing… adjusting just being a glitchy process, vs looking at how the dovetailing intermeshing occurs.

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ie how translate this relation to these questions to see how v-meme ideas are presence-pts of Underlying-Currents in the noosphere

(yes I know my above writing references a bunch of terms and systems, but writing ideas about how “ideas interact” and seeing that contact-itself is a bit bashful to be so bluntly-stated. Direct application of how “popular” ideas relate to socio-cultural systems arise from questioning does chemical substance1 mixed with chem-substance2 react in a certain way that can be clearly observed (vs just thinking everything works). If mental energies and mental-sphere objects are a field of actuality/actual interaction- how do they interact, let alone more conceptual-magic- which is how this thread could be interpreted (as in just a question of what-how).


#8

I agree with what has been said above. And if I may add, if you have solid proof that your magic is working and that the spirits you contact are reliable then the best attitude to adopt when talking to people who act like Mages A-C is “Haters gonna hate.” Don’t let someone else’s personal gnosis fuck with your own.

Good luck.


#9

I was just reminded of a quote by Albert Einstein regarding genius (or Intelligence) being the amount of time one could hold two or more comflicting ideas in mind Simultaneously -without locking up or dismissing them.

and related is the tendency of if there is such an ambiguity to just pick one, or say it doesn't matter (more so it seems these plurality-postmodern days of unclarity).

A phrase I keep in mind, Whenever I here the (knee-jerk) response, “Oh so what you’re saying it is ___.” or “So basically it all sums up as __.” which by default is false (in my mind) -ie how the assumption of the thought in a book is taken from the title, or saying some thinker (like EA) all of what he write is “basically just all about ___” which is this need-drive to simplify down

–anyway, I think that is the same as above A,B,C (“So basically demons are Just figments of our mind”… why motivate that saying? ro simplify it all down… or all of Magick is just Solomonic system… as if there are unrelated Rites then how connect up the system?)

-and yet Experience and Reality is “messy”… or as Charles Dodson put is “It’s a poor sort of memory that only works backwards.” and “Curiouser and curiouser”…

George Bernard Shaw “The Truth is the one thing that Nobody will Believe.”

["so what that means is that… " ]

“Reality is not only stranger than we conceive, but stranger than we can conceive.” Biologist J.S. Haldane