Sumerian Deities & Elemental Correspondences

General Discussion
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I’ve been trying to match up the gods/deities of the old Sumerian mythos with the elemental correspondences in a system, for example, like Qabalism which has four archangels to match the elements and some LHP systems use demon names such as EA’s here. I’ve tried to match and so far I have come up with this:

Fire=Gibil (he was the Sumerian god of fire, easy enough)
Air=Enlil (called the Lord of Air, also easy enough)

Beyond those two, not sure who would be most appropriate for earth and water.

I’ve seen that Enki has been referred to as Lord of the Earth but also as Lord of the Water. I suppose that means he could be assigned to either but I wonder which is most fitting for this particular deity. I’ve also seen where Ninhursag is considered a goddess of the earth so the female form would be appropriate there since earth is considered a feminine element like water. So Enki could go to the water slot in the event I used Ninhursag for earth.

I’ve read a number of books on Sumerian religion and mythology by people like Noah Kramer so I have some understanding and knowledge of the civilization. I’m also not looking to use any other Mesopotamian deities like Marduk and others but purely Sumerian ones. I read some of Joshua Free’s writings on Sumerian religion but his stuff isn’t really what I was looking for.

Thoughts, experience or know any previous elemental references using the Sumerian pantheon? I have been drawn to experimenting with a self styled Sumerian based system for a while now but want to try to have some things matched as accurately as I can before I begin. I would like to create a fusion of Sumerian with a Golden Dawn style system I suppose, or traditional western style if you prefer. Once I’m comfortable with what I have at the starting line I can build from there.

Here’s an image taken from Sumerian pottery dated 5000 BC. It’s been referred to by some as a Sumerian swastika. Would make a nice seal. I also like the idea of using Sumerian cuneiform hand scribed by myself on some pieces.

Thanks for any input.

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How about instead of squeezing these deities into a western model of thinking, you approach them in their natural pantheons?

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Did you try asking them?

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Just me but you are totally correct E. Also, study the hell outta the sumerian deities and what they are assigned without the western paradigm. They are imo, about the most real documented dieties we have in many ways. (and try to ignore my ‘ancient aliens’ and Lessin sound) but, when it comes to Enki EA, don’t look at him as an Entity of a ‘watery’ essence. Read just what his relationship is to “The waters on the Planet” Aquafers, Seas Oceans Lakes" and ask yourself what are all the Underwater UFO’s and other phenomina about-- i think you will find he goes from a mythical figure to a very real active presence,not only on this earth, but I amnow looking at the "Water Planets as a great hide out. I often call them the ‘Cosmic Cosa Nostra’ because the more youlook at it the more you can’t not see it.They may have elemental correspondence- but it is the West- which mimics the east.

[this is an edit] Also forgot to say; Enki who goes by EA is the YH of the bible- and imo, proves to be damn hard to fit into any other mold. I am convinced of either 2 things. Someone who left Babylon; in which the ‘jewish writings’ began; took the Babylonian EA; and backwrote him attributing
the apearance of YH- to as possible fictional person called moses. Or 2-EA did actually make contact with whoever- and ‘created a covenant’ and ‘chosen people’ not to rule the world as so so dearly try to usurp their way into doing- but to be his personal pissing and clawpost- as a trickster god, that makes sense to me.

owell.

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AND

I suppose it’s the chaos magician in me, mixing and matching shit where it doesn’t automatically fit to see what results. Experimentation…ordo ab chao. Take a chaotic model then impose order or one’s Will upon it, or at least try to. I have for some time now wanted to do this experimental approach with the Sumerian pantheon, so it’s something I have my head set on doing. That said, I would be open at some point in the future of doing something more “natural” with that pantheon if I found working with that grouping satisfying…and I remained interested in the Sumerian mythos.

No, it did not occur to me to do that. I suppose because I do not believe that they literally exist, no more than I believe the four archangels exist that I spent more times than I care to admit evoking years ago when I was practicing Qabalistic magick. However, my disbelief certainly didn’t seem to stop certain things from working or occurring. Faith and going through the motions with focus and passion in the ritual itself seems to be able to go a long way whether you believe in the things you are supposed to be evoking or not.

I see a lot of these “beings” “deities” or whatever you call them as a projection point to externalize my own inner power through rather than something that exists in objective reality. I realize most people here see them from a literal perspective and that’s fine by me but I am in the camp that sees these things through a metaphoric lens. But at the end of the day if either way seems to work or get results then that’s the main thing.

A number of years back I spent a couple of years walking the sands of the land that was once called Sumeria but is now present day Iraq. Here is a small shot of me in “Sumeria”. What kind of energies or “death currents” do you think I was exposed to over there?

If nothing else I came by my interest in Sumerian culture honestly, and perhaps even earned the “rite” to infuse it with my occult workings.

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No, it did not occur to me to do that. I suppose because I do not believe that they literally exist…

I see a lot of these “beings” “deities” or whatever you call them as a projection point to externalize my own inner power through rather than something that exists in objective reality.[/quote]

My partner believes pretty much exactly the same, whereas I lean towards hard polytheism - I interact with them as though they’re discrete beings, “out there” so to speak (as much as anything) with their own qualities and preferences.

BUT, this is important, neither should prevent you from asking - if they’re aspects of human consciousness that some elder sages have categorised as being certain ways, then presumably this was discovered because those states & qualities worked best to bring them forth, and those archetypes have also been reinforced over time, working well enough for other people, to make it to this point.

We all have kidneys but just because they’re internal, ours, we can’t just suddently decide to pop one out and balance it on our heads - they have a function, a location, and can’t work well outside that.

Same as sleep, an aspect of consciousness, is sleep and not negotiable, and even severe tiredness, just a state again, means you’re better off not driving a busy and complex freeway.

And, have you never asked yourself, your own mind, a question, like “What do I really want?” Or, “Why on earth did I do that?” :wink:

So, whether or not they’re inside, I propose asking them as a first step - I don’t know if you read this post I did a while ago about invisible counselors, but the “Virtual David Neagle” one appears in my dreams quite frequently and tells me things, plus I get useful insights conversing with him using that method!

This is a fabrication of a real man (who I’ve never met, though I follow his work avidly) and yet it brings value and insights to my thoughts that my mundane version of consciousness doesn’t have access to, and y’know, if I tried to merge him with a simulation of Genghis Khan, or whatever, I doubt he’d work so well. :wink:

In a similar topic, have a look at this stuff - some extreme examples of the “multiple self”: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/theory-knowledge/201404/one-self-or-many-selves

This is more about the everyday changes we ALL encounter: Strategies of Commitment, and Other Essays, the next few paragraphs after the highlighted text are about this (if that link to google books doesn’t work, google this phrase complete with quotation maks: “the simplicity with which we can analyze the strategy of self-command” ).

EVEN IF these spirits are internal, it’s my proposition that they’re not homogenous, and IMO learning their conventional functions and forms, and the states they prefer (or, in which they work best) seems as simple as realising you won’t make great decisions about things when you’ve been awake 28 hours and drunk a litre of whiskey! :wink:

Sorry for the novel but this is a big topic in my household and I guess ideas on it just kind of bounce out when it comes up, because of so many late nights spent talking it over.

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One thing had occurred to me a while back out of the blue, when I had stumbled upon some similarities that were to uncanny to be coincidence. These relations were between the Norse pagan gods and the pantheon gods of the Greeks. Geographically these tribes of people lived relatively close, which was the bases of my pondering whether or not these deities may be one and the same. But once I had broadened the view “culturally” I stumbled upon a global account of the main deities, or perhaps deity, spoken through tongues of different cultures.

To the germanic/ Scandinavians he was “Tor” or “Donnar” the thunder god, and chieftain to the pantheon of Asguard. Better known today as “Thor”, which was the English version of “Tor”. Thor in German means something else. Now, to the Greeks ZEUS was the head god, also a thunder god. Considering that these people who worshipped these gods lived so close it’s highly likely they are one in the same, given different names through a different tongue. I’m only going to focus in this one deity to keep it simple, but I assure you the parallels through the pantheons match up.

Going north to the Slavic tribes, they worshiped a god named Perun, who was also a thunder god. That wielded a hammer an axe, and had a chariot that would transport him where ever he wanted to go.

Eastward to India, there was Indra God of Thunder and rain. And it goes on, It’s really uncanny all these similarities. I’d like to see if there was anything in the Summerian texts that stands out to compare to.

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I could go on at length, even by my standards, but instead I’ll just advise you to look into comparative Indo-European religious studies. And, Zeus shares more in role and etymology with the original Germanic sky chieftain Tiw.

All the Indo-European tribes had inflections and variations on shared concepts of the divine, with individual cultures bringing out particular regional ephases. And yes, the Aryan tribes of the Vedas that brought Indra and company to India are among them, they seem to have split off from what’s called the Indo-Iranian proto-group somewhere in Iran where a very old form of these beliefs was predominant before the rise of Zoroaster.

As to trying to bridge some kind of gap with the Sumerian deities, well, there may indeed be similarities of the most general kind, but there will still be different deities and different mythology, just like with the Aegyptians or the Australian aborigines, just because ultimately every belief is not fundamentally the same lol.

The closest you might get to linking Sumerian and Indo-European myths (in a -very- broad way) may be in what’s left of Hittite record and attestation. They are the first -major- Indo-European-speaking culture or nation in historical attestation (that I know of), and they adopted the Mesopotamian cuneiform as the written form of their language.

Many of their gods and myths are easily recognizeable as early forms of common Indo-European myth (like Tarhunt and Illuyankas), or hell, their generic word for “god”, which transliterates “sius”. They also blatantly adopted many of the Sumerian and Babylonian deities into their sphere after sacking Babylon. So there’s a connection. But that’s more like a form of syncretism, common in the early Near East and even Imperium Romanum as a form of asserting dominance by “stealing” a people’s gods and then conquering them, to honour their god in your lands (this may be the original meaning of Latin ‘evocatio’ if I’m not entirely mistaken).

But, of course, these Sumerian borrowings did not seem to transfer from the Hittites to the next major Indo-European cultural expression, which I -think- would be the Avestan period of Iran. The syncretism seemed to result from the Near Eastern sphere of the Hittite Empire (they borrowed from Aegypt as well), and the other related groups just kept on developing their own elaborations of the orginal tribal themes.

That’s the history, anyway. Personal gnosis may vary but definitely just be prepared to treat different expressions of deities as unique and respected personages and not just “yeah you’re a misunderstood copy of something (x) magickal master race thought of first”.

EDIT - That was directed at midnightsun’s post. There’s a reason the cultures you listed have similar deities, but it doesn’t mean they’re identical to the Sumerians

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The mind set in the conclusion to your summary caught me off guard. It resonated like something straight out of left field, I never hinted toward anything relative to the sort.

My contention was perhaps the god heads that were worshipped through different cultures were possibly one in the same. Expressed differently, but not misunderstood or berated. Obviously not all, but some very well could have been the same, just different accounts.

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Oh I should have been clearer, I didn’t want to imply that was what -you- were saying. I’ve seen that theory railed on here fairly recently, and your post gave me half an excuse to pontificate lol.

And to your second part, that seems hard to tell. I would venture that the best thing to do at first would be to treat them like separate personalities. But that’s where, with prolonged contact, the “personal gnosis may vary” comes in.