Sovereignty vs Worship

Many here on this forum claim showing mutual respect to ranking entities is simply acknowledgement of power. But by definition, reverence is the expression of having honor or deep respect for a figure in heed of worthiness. Worship, by definition, is to honor or show reverence to a spiritual entity. Magicians who align with daemonic energy tend to claim showing “mutual respect” is important yet they do not worship their entities but create energetic connections. Yet they offer many forms of gifts and energy as notions of mutual exchange. But giving attention/respect is actually giving energy – fueling the entities influence.

The thing is, I’ve had entities plainly tell me not to worship them, but instead utilize their power for mutual results. (Experience for both parties) But working with these entities will naturally align your energy with theirs, thus slowly shaping your behavior to resemble them. I’ve found this to be a constant factor very early on. To remain grounded without being overtly affected, it’s necessary to maintain energetic balance to keep your mind under your own control. So wouldn’t it be necessary to shield yourself off from these entities’ auras while meeting them? Some say that shows fear (which is said to agitate them) but I don’t really think so. It’s just consciously remaining in control of yourself.

Creating a more ideal reality is a subjective matter between varying personalities. (people) But why should we give offerings and bodily energy (our own vitality) to fuel the manifestation of that reality. At that point we willingly give subservience to the energy (spirit) driving it. We become nothing more than spiritual batteries while claiming to be powerful or “godlike” for simply having the ability to do so.

So wouldn’t it be a more potent choice to radiate energy thus aligning/molding outer reality to resemble our own energy, instead of draining one energy to fuel another reality? It’s true that energy is never created nor destroyed but always shifting. I do wonder, however, if humans are truly in control if we rely on our ability to drain energy from something to fuel something else?


I’ve always been for using your own energy to alter your reality, but I find some people simply choose to rely on entities or they have no choice (due to not putting time into working their own energy) that they need external entities help to achieve a certain goal.


Why not both?
I’m all for flexing my own muscles. You could say my “team” are my coaches though. They don’t just manifest for me, they teach em to do it myself too.


Just because you radiate energy doesn’t mean you know how to use it. That just makes you a more potent battery.


Just as there are many ways to “skin a cat” in this field. Why don’t we go back to the OP?

Not quite. It’s like an equal exchange. For example, I give King Paimon chocolate, he gets me a new job, we go our separate ways. We both benefited. But the thing is, nothing is ever free. Would you not do the same in their shoes? Or would you give your precious energy freely? Might as well be compensated for your work, no?

Those people may speak for themselves.

That’s what cleansing is for, to rid yourself not unnecessary and stagnant energy that would otherwise hinder your progress and path.

I agree.

That’s a very interesting yet telling detail.


I want their energy exchange. Part of who u contact is meant to utilize their energy and become who u evoke…Think of the gods, entities as formula to opening something personal. We are batteries, then they are the machines the batteries go into. They work, we power them…Hence i’ve always claimed its all technological…

DIY works when there a know how of how to do the job…if ur not sufficient, u can ask them to do it or ASK THEM TO TEACH U…the later works, and they will give u the info needed so u can be independent of them…

I see nothing wrong with respect for them…And i see nothing wrong with worshipping either. Were it my desire to become the Morningstar, I would worship Lucifer…the moments of such are like a merging…and though not a popular idea, i tend to like the idea of merging with entities we have a very very very high affinity to.

We human are not in control because we can not figure out WHAT this is…without knowing wat, we cant manipulate the mechanism, by which to work…i dunno…there’s an agenda clearly, implicit in our situation…powerful as we supposed to be…this gives me much to think about…

Shielding is only useful if one doesn’t want that energy. Like a Medieval Christian summoning a demon from a grimmiore would still have reason to shield, and or banish…I like the Hoodoo idea of possession.

This is unexplored territory still, which the human race barely knows of by means beyond channeling or evoking the things…Personal gnosis on their identities are personal, so why not explore?


Its open territory. Yes u can become the machine. Thats kinda where magicks like chaosmagick come in…U just ask them during a ritual to show u how…most cases they will…in some way, u will just intuit something relevant to the desire and it works…a sort of possession. U give them some energy, u take there’s and they teach u independence from them…

I dunno their nature…if im wrong i will suffer for it, dont think i am. I don’t think we are but an oppurtunity in passing to them as they are to us…I dont think they need our energy though.


For something to exist anywhere, there is an energy exchange. That is how everything works on all levels. Even as humans we do this with each other all the time. It’s how we procreate, communicate and navigate.

Even something as simple as eating is an exchange of energy, without this exchange you cease to physically exist. Same with the sun, it too fuels this reality, without it hmmm

You are always affected on some level, no escaping that.

This is true of anything you choose to interact with. Holding a rock to ground you, drinking water to cool you. Your friends and family over time have all influenced you in some way and thats what makes you, well…you.


(TLDR at bottom)
I consider myself a Demonolater and while I “worship”, there are things I won’t do. Blindly obedience, total reliance, prostrate supplication are not inline with what I will do. Due to most of us coming from Christianity and those mentioned actions are what was beaten into us from the beginning, it makes sense that some Deities would say to not worship them. Depends on what the individual’s belief/ideas of what worship entails.

What does it mean to me in action? It means deeper relationships with a small group of Demonic Divine that guide, educate, and sometimes help the practitioner along their path. I’ll give some examples.

I sing to Hecate almost daily, as a devotional. If I miss a day or so due to circumstances, say being sick and bed-ridden or being on vacation and people are always around, it’s no biggie. It’s a non-mandatory act of respect. It was her influence and prodding that finally convinced me to come to the Dark Side and we interact daily in some form outside of the singing. She’s more interested in personal development, to keep it simple.

My relationship with Belial is more of an instructional, mentor-mentee relationship in the typical sense. He gave me a head’s-up about some stuff at work I would’ve had no way of knowing. I typically ask him to confirm things, as I trust his opinion. He also prefers to act as an overwatch on my 72 challenge and lets me know how many to do at a particular time and when to take a break. I do not have a daily/weekly devotional to Belial, but I pay for things given or asked for with blood or by some other act.

TLDR - They would be disappointed with me if I treated the relationship in the same way I would’ve as a Christian. It’s demeaning to them, as it implies that they need the ego gratification to prop themselves up. Sometimes I give more, sometimes they do, but we both give and get in different ways.


I think this is normal for humans - people do this to each other just by living together. Robert Bruce discusses this in his works (probably Psychic Defense but I forget). People who adopt other peoples energy more readily, especially emotional energy are called empaths.

Could be, I guess it depends on how much you’re effected, and if that effect is desirable.
To extend the above parallel, empaths learn to shield just so they can go to the grocery store without picking up another’s bad mood. Same principle, except entities aren’t usually as volatile or unhelpful, and resonating with thier vibrations is often beneficial.

In this case, if you see your reality as a reflection of your own inner state, so this isn’t necessary, but by acting on the world, energetically and physically, you help ground the energy to effect change faster. Assuming faster is wanted, then there’s motivation to add extra to move things along.
I think there is no “should”.

This is a view rooted in separation, and forgets that batteries don’t direct how thier energy will be used. If you accept that you create your reality, you are your own battery, your energy flows as you want, and it’s not robbery to give energy to yourself.

I don’t see the difference here. Either way you look at it, you have changed your reality. If you don’t like the model of ‘being a battery’, don’t use it. I don’t think many people here would see it that way either, it’s sort of passive and for me, I don’t think that analogy works, for stated reasons - i.e. batteries don’t decide.


No, but it’s the point.

The energy that comes from them influences you to be like them. Cleansing in a way negates that and helps you balance your own energies.


Who says we aren’t the ones? And why does it matter? When the very instrument you use to make judgements and decisions can be influenced without you knowing, it’s impossible to say. Circular arguments aren’t useful imo and this is getting into philosophy, not practical magik. Results are what matter to me, not intellectual exercises in ‘what ifs’.

Given that, while it’s important to think things through, there’s a point where you can paralyse yourself if you worry about whether you think what you think, or something unnamed and unknowable is pulling your strings.

It doesn’t matter at that point if ‘you’ are a product of a User, Tron style, or are all by yourself.
Example: My game avatars are still me, what they think and want IS what I want, because I AM them.

Wheels within wheels, as above so below.
Whichever way around you want to view it, all you can do at the end of the day, is the best you can with the information you have at the time.


You seem to be more interested in theoretical debate, rather than things put into practice. I have a Goddess to sing to. Best of luck with the thread.


I’m the first to be put off by religion, but I think this is an unfair characterisation, and intellectually lazy.

Not even christians from the same church congregations are the same. It might be convenient to dehumanise folks to a faceless group so you can put words in thier mouths, but it’s not a good way to make a plausible argument.

And whoever ‘they’ are… how about instead of concocting strawmen you get specific and talk about who said that? I’m not aware that Demonolator state as a group that they think thier religion is ‘superior’ at all… superior to what exactly? It doesn’t even have a cosmology that overlaps with most modern religions.
Nor is religion supposed to be liberating, imo - it’s all about rules and top-down morals.

The Norse religion is an example where deities were not worshiped. It predates xtainity and the gods were seen as close friends, sometimes enemies sometimes allies, but very personable and immediate. Its a very different feel from the aloof priest-brokered silence in JCI currents.

I feel like you’ve just taken a bunch of assumptions based on a very limited experience of mainstream monotheism and assumed all religion is like that, when that couldn’t be further from the truth.


As someone who has practiced that spirituality and still does to some extent I can vouch for this.