Sorcery vs. Ascent

Let’s say that a sorcerer does not wish to ‘evolve’ or ‘ascend,’ and merely wishes to dominate his environment in this realm and leave it there.

Do entities then limit the sorcerer and interfere, in order to goad him toward Ascent?

In other words, is it impossible for a sorcerer to avoid coming under the umbrella of some particular magical current, or tutelary entities which want devotion in return?

Thanks in advance.

[quote=“Student of Goetia, post:1, topic:3460”]Let’s say that a sorcerer does not wish to ‘evolve’ or ‘ascend,’ and merely wishes to dominate his environment in this realm and leave it there.

Do entities then limit the sorcerer and interfere, in order to goad him toward Ascent?

In other words, is it impossible for a sorcerer to avoid coming under the umbrella of some particular magical current, or tutelary entities which want devotion in return?

Thanks in advance.[/quote]

That’s not up to the spirits.

That’s up to God.

Your higher self is experiencing what it wants to with your ‘puppet’ body, if it is ready to move to the next stage of the journey you have no choice in the matter. However if you are meant to worship one of the ascended beings to put you on a path that you are meant to take…

Well then…who are you to argue with yourself?

i couldnt agree more haha technically speaking, almost if not all of the Earths population is “Ascending/Evolving” every day.

Some say most are Moon Food.

moon food?

Some say most are Moon Food.[/quote]

I don’t know what that is, but I can tell you that even the most ordinary everyday people have spiritual guardians of all types, ranging from ancestral beings to actual deities, and that in my experience of healing people (when someone who was interested in spirituality would often call me in to help a completely uninterested cousin, the type who had “Muggle” written right through them) even the most regular people have a range of weird-ass stuff going on.

Everyone also has a Higher Self and, not so much a “destiny” but some stuff that HS is guiding them to experience for whatever reason.

The idea that magicians are an awakened elite and everyone else is a wandering puppet put there so we don’t have to make our own shoes is alluring, but not accurate on the spiritual levels. :slight_smile:

That’s my experience, anyway.

As for your main question, you need to find a way to tie your mastery of this realm into the goals of your own HS and also that of any entities you decide to ally yourself with.

People do acquire power and mastery in this world, but in every case they’re giving something back at a high level to the material reality, whether it’s their time and dedication (even corrupt politicians work hard and stay very focused to get where they are) or whether it’s mastery of some mundane skill in business or whatever.

There’s an old saying that people will be jealous of a successful man, but when told the exact things he did to get there - and offered the chance at the same outcome, if only they’re willing to do those same things - most people shrink from the task.

So, find something you love to do, work out a way to make it pay, and find entities who are willing to work with you on that - you don’t need to be “devoted” to them in a lame way, it can work more like a partnership.

In my opinion using spiritual methods ALONE to get mastery of the physical world is going to be as ineffective as using ONLY the material tools - the right robes, the best wands and daggers, and so on - hoping that will grant mastery of spiritual realms and entities.

You need to address the goal at least partially in the realms which relate to it, and there’s always a crossover, which is where the real MAGICK kicks in, of the link between material and spiritual worlds, being bridged and forced to act upon one another by your own Will.

[quote=“Student of Goetia, post:1, topic:3460”]Let’s say that a sorcerer does not wish to ‘evolve’ or ‘ascend,’ and merely wishes to dominate his environment in this realm and leave it there.

Do entities then limit the sorcerer and interfere, in order to goad him toward Ascent?

In other words, is it impossible for a sorcerer to avoid coming under the umbrella of some particular magical current, or tutelary entities which want devotion in return?

Thanks in advance.[/quote]

Simply put, learning to be successful with magick whether you contract with entities for ascent or not will lead you to develop certain skills with the mind and come to accept some things as true that some others do not even know about.

It’s inevitable that you will grow and learn in life through adapting to change. Magick adds other elements that can accelerate that in some areas.

If you just want to rule your world and make it how you want it, that is possible also. That is how I started.

At some point when you get good enough you will consistently get what you want enough of the time. Then you will decide upon new goals and things you want in your life. One by one you will achieve them, and upon achieving each of them you’ll grow a bit in the process.

Some make ascent their primary focus and accelerate this by focus. Others just master changing reality to suit their desires. Either way you will grow in the process.

I would not worry about trying to avoid becoming more powerful and gaining knowledge in the process of building your dream life.

Dominating your environment IS the process of Ascent, because in order to accomplish your goals, you will need to improve yourself on all levels. If you want to be rich, you need to become the type of person who can handle large amounts of money. Most people can’t. If you look at the statistics of lottery winners, most go broke within 5 years because they lack the mindset to handle their wealth. If you want lots of hardcore sex, with lots of gorgeous lovers, you need to be the kind of person others would find irresistibly attractive. Nothing happens in a vacuum. Life IS constant Ascent. You grow, or you die. Simple as that. As you use magick to create your environment as you want it, you will naturally Ascend spiritually. Its automatic.

The point is, as one continually grows in power, do entities simply allow that type of independence? It seems not.

Re-framing your definition of entities might give you some answers. Check out the article Models of Magick by Frater U.’.D.’.

I can’t say that I enjoy the thought of being cheese, so I’ll kill the man in the moon and defeat the system.

Now for a less Discordian-like response; nothing holds sway over your independence unless you permit it. You don’t need daemons and deities to progress, they’re simply a method of speeding things along. Then there’s the fact that not every entity wishes to subjugate your independence or even weaken it within the slightest…it’s all about who you commune with. Some enjoy their pet projects, others simply like to stir things up, then you have your asshats…just like humanity.

They say you never get something for nothing…but sometimes, even within the spiritual world, the motivation behind the aid given is little more than boredom and a desire for entertainment.

“None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.”
-Goethe

Indeed I have read it. When one says “entities,” naturally this means a subscription to the Spirit paradigm.

Indeed I have. To which model or paradigm are you alluding?[/quote]

I was alluding to the meta view, and fluidity of perspective. To step away from any limitations you might have heard about or seen from other sources, and re-focus on your objective. Use what works for you, whatever that might be.

I understand your question was posed from the entity perspective. I thought that if you asked your question from a few other view points, you might have an insight or answer that otherwise would not appear.

My suggestion was to re-examine your own question and see if you could find your own answer.

Indeed I have. To which model or paradigm are you alluding?[/quote]

I was alluding to the meta view, and fluidity of perspective. To step away from any limitations you might have heard about or seen from other sources, and re-focus on your objective. Use what works for you, whatever that might be.

I understand your question was posed from the entity perspective. I thought that if you asked your question from a few other view points, you might have an insight or answer that otherwise would not appear.

My suggestion was to re-examine your own question and see if you could find your own answer.[/quote]

If someone can switch their paradigm back and forth, one day believing that they create all their reality, the next believing in an objective spirit world, it’s no wonder they can claim to ignore any interference caused by the entities who actually run things in these realms.

You can use your powers to focus purely on this material life and everything that goes on in it. But that’s a trap. Not necessarily anything to do with Gods, Entities, or anything else. If you try for only mastery of this world, you’ll eventually be recycled again.

Ultimately, the wants and the desires are traps, but until we find our path to freedom, they will keep ensnaring us. This doesn’t mean you have to become an ascetic - denial is just as much an indulgence as, well, indulgence. Getting out is an energy thing, not a philosophy. You either have enough or you don’t.

So master yourself and enjoy things along the way, but if you stop your ascent before you find the path to freedom, you get recycled eventually. Or you get stuck in a sort of half-life, not enough energy to break free, but unwilling to die.

if you stop your ascent before you find the path to freedom, you get recycled eventually. Or you get stuck in a sort of half-life, not enough energy to break free, but unwilling to die.

Please elaborate; do you mean that Ascent depends upon some sort of natural law where if one builds sufficient energy, the soul automatically transmutes to a higher and more powerful mode of being?

I think it has to do with having built up sufficient conscious control of the energy bodyl before the point of death to keep the astral body together after it has left the mortal shell. If this mastery of soul travel/AP and ability to tap enough energy to remain intact hasn’t been achieved before the physical death then its likely the the energy body will just live on for a time without conscious control until it eventually dissolves into the one or is reincarnated in another body. This is why some yogis have consciously died at will because they have attained this mastery and can choose to live on in other worlds if they wish too. One possibility anyway.

But are these masters who choose to live on in other worlds independent of any magical currents, and independent of the entities who rule the realms?

Well, one can be a sorcerer/magician without deliberately cultivating your energy and still accomplish great things. Yes, your energy will still be building, but you remain ignorant of the hows and the whys, and ultimately, the leaks/drains, etc. There are a number of things that can tap and divide your energy, primary among these are attachments.

If you deliberately cultivate energy, by directly building it and by indirectly freeing it up and/or not squandering it, you will raise your overall energy level. This will give you greater power to do greater things - your perception and shaping of reality certainly not the least of it. But, if too much of your focus ends up being tied to not ascending / not gaining freedom, you can get stuck. Even with great power, your energy is insufficient to progress, but too great to die outright.

I dunno, it’s complicated. Overall, enjoy your time here having a body, because it is a rare treat in the universe to have one. But when you have moved past that time, it’s better to move on and move forward.

Again, simply denying yourself pleasures/powers/etc. does not remove attachment. You just become attached to asceticism, and your energy is tied up regardless. Focusing everything on ascent can also be another trap, because again, you are attached to this goal rather than being present. You cultivate the state of non-attachment, where you both enjoy what you have and what you gain, but are not tied to it. The state of being comes with cultivation, not from thinking about it.