Some confusion regarding evocation🧐

So I have 2 questions regarding evocation, I always noticed how it seems EA just freely gets what he wants from the evocations with the spirit, are spirits usually that generous when it comes to asking for a desired result in your life? One theory I have is before the spirit will just freely hand you things upon asking them via evocation is you have to gain a strong relationship by doing back and forth pacts with that spirit first? Is this true or did EA or any of you get your outcome freely handed to you when first evoking a spirit for whatever you need? Sorry if that’s confusing.

Next question is I hear from the grape vine blood is loved by demons and is an excellent form of currency when evoking a spirit and asking them of something.

These two questions I would say fall into each other kind of. Thank you as always🙏

-sacredblood

2 Likes

Nothing is ever “freely handed”, really. Some workings are easier than others, having strong spirtual energy, a good relationship and good communication skills help get your request across and influencing the energy flows more strongly and faster.

EA started decades ago, is naturally gifted and has worked incessantly and very heavily searching for power, frequently risking life and sanity, far beyond the point where most people will go, he’s earned being called Magus and that’s why he makes it look easy, as highly skilled artisans tend to do.

grape vine blood

Do you mean grape vine sap or wine, which is fermented grape fruit juice?
Ask the entity in question, they have their preferences. Ime Belial prefers whiskey. :slight_smile:
Offerings are optional, it’s best not to assume if it’s a great relationship you’re after.

3 Likes

False. I’ve never made a pact, and don’t generally spend time building relationships, yet my tasks get done. I take the view that it is a type of business arrangement. I provide the spirit a task, and they get the opportunity to express their power in my world.

Blood establishes a very strong connection with a spirit, and, in my opinion, should only be given to spirits you trust explicitly. However, many people throw blood around to everything and anything that comes knocking, thinking it will somehow empower their weak magick (a lot of LHP beginners have this idea in their heads, because some “adept” magicians promote this view).

However, it should be pointed out that not all spirits want blood, and a few people on this forum have even mentioned certain popular demons declining a blood offering from them, so it is always best to ask first.

4 Likes

So essentially everything is a pact when working with an entity?

Like will you do this and in return I will do this?

So In evocation I should discuss with the entity terms of a pact?

2 Likes

No pacts are ever required. It’s a good idea to make the relationship and build up some trust before agreeing with them that you’ll make a pact.

You can trade, or you can command and then offer a thank you, different people do it different ways.

4 Likes

Hmmm

So all that’s needed is respect?
Like I’m sure the entity can ask for something in return if they want obviously but it would essentially go something like this in a sense?

Me: hello great (spirit name) I come for a request that (your request)

And that’s basically it? No discussions of contracts are made usually? I’m sure if the spirit wanted to though they could offer to set one up like I said. :man_shrugging:

2 Likes

What would be an example of a command dialogue in your opinion? As I feel saying something like this

I command you to (request)

Is extremely disrespectful, how would you go about wording a request with a demon?

2 Likes

No, this is not true. You don’t have to make pacts with spirits in order for them to manifest your desires.

4 Likes

So essentially just being respectful and showing gratitude is basically the keys?

2 Likes

Again, it depends on the entity and your relationship. Some entities will literally command you to command them. In that case, if you want it done you should respect their position. They are trying to teach you that you are like the CEO of your universe, and should act like it.

If that’s not the case, then go with the wording that feels right, but avoid making it pleading. I personally like to say “I want you to do xyz”, and then confirm with a “will you do it?” If that comes back as a no, keep working on it.

5 Likes

How will I know if the spirit wants me to command them? I’m assuming mid evocation they’ll tell me something along the lines of “no not like that command me” so they’ll tell me in other words?

2 Likes

Gratitude is a form of love, and massively relaxes and eases the energy for the working.
It also means you are convinced of the changes, which is the opposite of doubt. Doubt kills magick, gratitude enhances it.

Crowley said “Do as you will under the law; love is the law”. That often gets misquoted, and loses the most important part of its meaning, I feel. Relax and let it flow.

2 Likes

I generally use Koetting’s basic system, and in his system, after greeting the spirit, you tell it why you called, and then ask if it is willing to help you. If the spirit says yes (none have said no to me yet) then you issue the task as a command.

For example:

Me: "Welcome and thank you for attending my call, mighty King Paimon! I have summoned you here to my temple because you have the power to sway the will of men, and I have need of your help.

The demon will then usually say something like, “Speak your will,” or they’ll just bellow “What do you want?”

Me: “I ask that you influence George the janitor in my office building so that he will no longer put my garbage can under my desk.”

KP: I can do this.

Me: "Then, as it is within your power, and as it is my will, I command you to go forth and bring George under your sway, that he will no longer annoy me by hiding my garbage can. Go now, and fulfill the task I have set for you. Go, and may there always be peace between us.

Then I usually seal the dismissal with a “My will be done.”

7 Likes

Wow that is actually a very helpful approach of dialogue thank you, and saying I command you won’t make them basically think you’re a narcissistic prick? And I understand perspectives of how you talk depend on the demon ofc.

3 Likes

No. You are a king, giving a command to your general to carry out your will. You would only be a narcissistic prick if you threatened the spirit to get it to obey you:

“i command you, unholy abomination, in the name of Gawd Almighty, and the Lord Jebus Christ! You shall obey me and bring George the janitor under your sway, that he will stop hiding my garbage can. If you refuse to carry out this task, or you disobey me, I shall bind you in chains, and cast you into eternal hellfire for all of eternity!”

4 Likes

Oh ok thank you, that is all for this issue of mine!:slightly_smiling_face: from what it sounds like they will respect my sternness and see me as prideful.

Thank you!:slightly_smiling_face::pray:

2 Likes

I think the main thing that usually influences how fast a ritual manifests is how “far away” it is from your current reality and how much resistance there is between you and the result.

I genuinely believe that magick pretty much always delivers. I’ve had results manifest immediately and others months or even years after the ritual. At this point I don’t worry about it, I just do magick for what I want.

If a spirit demands some bargain or trade, I’d be wary. Some spirits work best when you include offerings in the magick, but this is as much for you as it is for them. These are spiritual beings that exist beyond time and space as we know it in the material realm. They’re not gonna get tuckered out or run out of gas if you don’t give them a drink. I don’t personally do this sort of thing in my practice as I don’t currently summon spirits that work in this style, so someone who does would be a better person to ask about offerings.

Some occultists get bullied around by spirits, and usually offerings are somewhere in the picture. Again this isn’t really my domain, but I think that’s also part of the magick.

Since it’s kind of on-topic, last random note is that it is worthwhile to build relationships with spirits. This is what pacts are for. A pact isn’t “do this or else I’ll slay you mortal,” it’s a formal commitment to undergoing magick with a spirit. At the end of a pact (which doesn’t have to mean the end of the relationship), both of you should be stronger.

2 Likes

No you don’t need to make a pact with a spirit to work with it and develop a relationship.

Everyone on this thread so far that I’ve seen are very experienced magicians that really know thier shit. I have a great deal of respect for all thier views on the subject. You’re going to see alot of differences in opinion though. You’re going to have to find what works for you. Results are what really matters. Start with the basics.

Be careful with offering blood, spirits don’t always want this and some may be offended by the gesture.

Also don’t jump into pacts patiently work with a spirit and build a relationship before you consider upgrading your ties.

Good luck

4 Likes

It’s funny I’ll just hear something like “yes?” Or “hello!:D”

2 Likes

Yeah I agree with that

1 Like