So I thought lucifer was gods greatest enemy but i was wrong

Indeed. I never thought of Christianity as a ‘greek-pagan’ religion before because of the enormous institutional establishment that came out of it… but come to think of it, it makes so much sense. Next time I meed an over-zelous christian I will refer to him/her as a greek pagan. Aah hah the humor.

As a sidenote… wasn’t also the Egyptian pharaohs referred to as the morning- and the evening stars? :smiley:

The way I see it there are are two forms of ‘evil’. The first being the wanton destruction and demonization and de-humanizing of other people - pure cruelty and disregard of others suffering… No matter how you look at it - beating an innocent defenseless person to death is wicked - unless you are on the very other side of the morality ruler.

And then there is the other ‘evil’ which is, as you say, a social construct; namely evil as being opposed to the status quo and the Laws of the current established order of things. That would be our guy and beloved rebel Lucifer himself then. No rebel ever has been called ‘one of the good guys’ by those they oppose… and they are lumped together with the people of the first variant of evil…

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It’s difficult to understand a religion that spawned from Judaism, pieced together by pagans with an agenda who didn’t understand it in the first place, which then branched into thousands of denominations which all disagree on both major and minor points. To try and make sense of the adversaries of a religion like that, based on its holy texts, is a never-ending game of dog chasing its tail.
If you want to know who Lucifer and the “Adversary” beings are, you’ll need to consult something other than the Bible. While I agree that most of the “devil” names are titles, I could argue that every name is a title, because every name that I’m aware of has a meaning rooted in antiquity. These entities exist independently of all mythologies, and arguably the “chicken or the egg, which came first?” scenario could apply to them. In other words, it’s not possible to know whether Lucifer, Satan, Belial, etc. came before any written texts were spawned about them. My personal conclusion is that the evidence I’ve seen, coupled with my personal gnosis and that of countless others, leads me to believe that Lucifer and Satan existed before Christianity made them into their devil and equated them to pure evil. I also find it curious that both Jesus and Lucifer are called Morning Star, and that the same title is given to Venus, the Morning and evening star.

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As far as I understand… They all work in harmony. Like day and night. Male and female, Positive and negative ( not Good and evil ). So they all act as one Elohim or divine power.

The act of calling Angels to force Demons to do something, is misunderstood in my view. They’re not forcing them, but they’re adding force to them. They complete each other by creating balance!

We can’t force Angels or Demons to do anything. We can only use their power when we raise similar energy. We are united with them in ritual.

But if there is one being who could rule over all. I think it would be Archangel Michael, because he represents God’s authority.

What if they are actually the one and the same person? I mean, Jesus was a rebel too… and who would have the authority to decide it is otherwise? :smiley:

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Some people believe that indeed.

And “God” is a topic for a thread all its own. I’m agnostic in the sense that I certainly can’t explain the origins of all existence without intelligent design. Who is the Creator? Dunno. But I certainly will never believe it’s YHVH or the biblical God. I see no actual evidence that there is a cosmic ruler who doles out punishment for acts it seems to be sinful either, nor do I see evidence that “good and evil” are anything more than a human construct, and same applies to Karma. If there’s a Creator then it’s androgenous, both male and female, and it is indifferent. The reason I believe that is because the Universe is equally masculine and feminine, and it is indifferent. It doesn’t judge, punish, reward, or even actively interfere in what goes on within it. It simply exists and evolves. Darkness and light are opposite poles of the same battery. Literally everything is completely indifferent. Existence goes on as it does, it plays out however it will, and will continue to do so without interference indefinitely.

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Sure. I could entertain that possibility. I didn’t draw Brest until 28 and a half years ago, so I have no idea what happened before that. I also don’t know with absolute certainty what exists or transpires outside my current realm of perception, aka the third dimension, physical plane.

Samael is an Archangel, even in grimoires. He is called the poison of God.

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I agree of course. But here is my point…

If we understand Judaism as it was originally presented. One God in many powers or forms that later were called Angels… What we really have is almost an exact form of all ancient religions allover the world. one supreme - usually hidden / unknown - God, with many aspects or Gods, Goddesses, Spirits etc

That’s the same thing in all ancient religions. Until Christianity corrupted the whole thing and later Islam just came up with it’s own version and the original concept was lost between the three of them.

If this is true, then it makes sense that those beings or spirits existed before Judaism and Christianity. Not only that, but they still exist and express their existence in different religions everywhere.

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And for this I prefer a somewhat jalbroken hermeticistic perspective. No need to interweave Creation with the ego of a god with a child-mentality. Like another here on BALG wrote in another thread… ‘So you believe in a god who sent himself, to sacrifice himself to himself, in order to save us from himself? That’s pretty fucked up…’ Pretty fucked up indeed.

Personally I think YHVH is a jealous and somewhat deranged entity/god that just wanted to do a Highlander, and things turned into a shit-hurricane after that…

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Yes, I agree.

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Different countries… different deities names … But the same job description… I agree with you… I felt the same way when i heard different religions giving different versions of the great flood

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Yes I believe Osiris for example was referred to as morning star, very interesting point :slightly_smiling_face:

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May I just say, this has been a mature and productive discussion. It’s nice to exchange ideas without ego stroking and dick measuring, people getting butt hurt, and people trying to force their beliefs on others. Over the last few days I’ve witnessed and walked away from more than one disaster of a discussion

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It really depends on the sources you trust and believe… for example, in the “official” Hebrew and Christian bible, there are only three Archangels. Michael, Gabriel and Raphael.

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… which is why I love this forum for these kinds of discussions. You can’t seem to keep a healthy dialogue about things like this with ‘normal’ people. They’ve had too much cool aid it would seem…

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Open mindedness is the key i guess :sweat_smile:. Main reason why i joined BALG is because i can’t talk to anybody without weirding them out even further … And of course me studying magick is a secret

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Thanks to you and everyone, I really enjoyed it as well. :slightly_smiling_face:

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Well here was my reaction in debt :slightly_smiling_face:

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:joy::joy::joy::joy: Butthurt and Dick measuring. Agreed

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