Should Black Magick remain a Secret?

Hails to Beloved brother EA Koetting. I ain’t such a much, but I do know I am once boiled down to my pure essence- A Warrior. 11 B Follow Me. Wiped out in battle during my last 3 past lives, for things questionably measureable in value to that which EA is sworn to bring down, “The Tower”.
but whenever and wherever the blood and fray may find itself swirling around my best choice for 'Spiritual[ and likely literal] Battle Buddy" may I be fund there, in the front, wherever it is worst, with my psychotically gleeful “battle cackle and raves”.
The greatest flattery was given to me when I was Labelled “An Apostate and Severe Threat”, may I always prove to honor those magestic and glorious Descriptions.
I used to sing of with a little line, and think I will begin doing it again.
"Blessed are the Dis-Illusioned, yea, More Blessed are the Dis-Illusioned Malcontents!"
FDDM

Thanks again Good Brother !!!

The secrets will ever be kept secrets, hidden from the profane. That is the way the spirits want it.
The only thing that gets out there is the key to the gate. Only those who wield it properly will ever get anywhere. The journey of magic has a way of weeding out the unworthy.

The way I see it, the mysteries of neurosurgery, quantum mechanics, and higher mathematics will never be revealed to certain people because they lack the interest and talent to pursue them, but no-one should arbitrarily be able to limit the access of any other person who wants to know about these things and study them, whether because they have those skills themselves and want to shut the trapdoor on anyone coming up behind them, or because of religious dogma of some kind.

People are only profane because they think it’s the best way to be, with their society telling them this stuff is all imagination or outright lies, and they have imbedded fears from the materialistic (or religious) background they were raised in that anything magickal may get out of their control and wreck their lives, which makes them hostile.

As times moves on they’ll see new examples and (just like the way germ-theory was rejected at first with considerable hostility) they’ll come to at least know the basics themselves, as we all know that wounds should be kept clean, and know that there are times to get skilled professionals to help them, without fear or superstition.

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There are a great many traditions where the secrets are not available for mere study because it is guarded by the initiates on order of the spirits. That is the way it has always been. And until the spirits announce we can go around spilling their secrets, they will remain so. It isn’t arbitrary. I’ve yet to meet someone who does it arbitrarily with any real magical substance.

traditions keeping their methods secret, and keeping magical ability and the basics of using it a secret are very different though. Personally i have no problem with people hiding their methods but hiding the thing itself just seems kinda pointless, why have a great skill that you never let anyone else know about?

I never said keep the basics secret. Like I said, the only thing that every gets out there is the key (a metaphor for the basics). Which is great, because those who will be able to master the art will be able to find their way onto the road. The inner secrets are not unlocked and shown to the world.

While i dont think that the existence of magick should be kept secret, i feel that the inner workings of such should not be freely handed out as though it were some inalienable human right. Mankind has shown itself to be a reckless irresponsible creature.

Let those who desire it seek it. Let those who are disciplined master it. Let those who are responsible survive it. Let us pray that those who are not dont destroy us all with it.

^Well said. I see throwing “secrets” out indiscriminately as the equivalent of casting pearls before swine, but then, swine aren’t going to even be aware that its pearls they are trampling on anyway. EA makes a living off teaching magick and what not so you have to take that into consideration as well. It’s in his best financial interest to “share” it with everyone. Don’t get me wrong, I like EA and think he’s a brilliant man but I don’t have the same empathy for the slaves. I’m more of a Darwinian than a humanitarian. I do agree with what he had to say about scientists getting ostracized from the community when their language goes off into the esoteric realms. I think people like Michio Kaku and Fred Alan Wolf have been able to walk a fine line with promoting the ideas of what is essentially magick without labeling it as such and have maintained their credibility as a result.

This goes back to the first part… most will never make it to, let alone past the seeking. Most people dont believe in magick and a large portion that do believe it to be evil and want nothing to do with it.

Most of those that do seek it will never master it, especially without help. That is less of a problem in our time. We dont have to hide for fear of death by BBQ anymore and we free to help each other. Forums like this will be the new school of magick.

Of those who have the discipline to master any of it a great many will weed themselves out with their own hubris. petty egos and shortsightedness will cause them to implode on themselves. try not to be standing to close when they do.

He and others like him are simply laying the foundation down for those to pursue their occult interests. Other then that, it’s still pretty secretive because it’s solely on the individual to go out there, practice and discover them secrets for themselves. Putting it like this makes things sound easy but it really isn’t especially when you run the risk of falling for delusion or becoming insane. With that in mind like others have said those secrets only get discovered by those of us who are worthy.

There are no secrets. Everything was openly published centuries ago. All the cats have left the bag. When the magnitude of the problem was discovered, orders and lodges and such were founded to flood the world with mystical horseshit to hold as many talented people back as possible. But it only works if you stay in the trance.

There are rules in this universe and the first big rules are “There are no secrets,” “Everything is permitted,” and, “Every call is responded to, and every request is answered.” They can’t barter with those rules, but they CAN flood the world with enough disinformation so that the lazy ones who just pick up the first thing that sounds good won’t get anywhere. You can’t be blocked from getting the right information, but you can be tricked into asking the wrong people.

The key is what it’s always been – “Knock and the door shall open.” Or, to put it plainly - grip your intention/question firmly and lucidly and submit it emphatically. Demand the real answer and you will get it. Thumb through a book in the New Age section or read someone you heard was an “expert” and you’ll get nowhere. There are no “mysteries.” Source doesn’t give two shits about this “tiered access” bullshit, and whether or not you “deserve” to have the things you want in life, whether you’re worthy of anybody’s precious “secrets.” There’s no such thing as “earning it,” and don’t let anybody tell you otherwise. It’s all there for you NOW if you just fuck the “systems,” go straight to Source and pull that authority down.

And you won’t hear anyone speak more reverently of Source than the so-called demons, which is a big part of why you’re told to avoid them.

If you believe there are no secrets, you have not even begun to glimpse them.

I agree to some extent: firstly, “the spirits” are very far from being a homogenous mass, with identical desires and goals, etc.

In addition, some will favour one person over another, whether through service, through past life (or genetic/ancestral) inheritances, or maybe just the stars that person was born under or the nature of his or her personality, so not only are not two spirits exactly alike, neither is their relationship to any two specific humans.

And I also have work, both ongoing and successfully completed, that I don’t share with anyone; I have spirits who’ve told me not to share their names, and workings I’ve been told to not even hint at - in fact I’ve posted on here a few times now that I believe the “hostile observer” is a factor in magick and something to be carefully avoided, hence “And To Be Silent” is commonly known as the fourth power of the sphinx - and not the fourth limitation etc.

So I’m not making a case for everyone posting every last thing in their grimoires and journals, or be considered some kind of weird ideological enemy, because it’s not something I’d ever do myself.

With that said, initiatory traditions that are within, or derived in any way from, the ATRs have all gone through several centuries of having to hide their very existence from the dominant white Judeo-Christian cultures, often on pain of death, which I believe has affected the guidance the spirits give, because their primary concern is the welfare and safety of their initiates.

We had a similar thing, only more successfully annhiliated, when first the Romans then the the Xian church destroyed the indigenous spiritual practices and teachers of the northern European peoples.

So I think that background needs to be factored in, heavily, and when you consider that this is still something large parts of the J/C & Islamic world want to stamp out using lethal force, their insistance on closed orders and a degree of discretion makes more sense.

Then, also, there’s the issue of initiation - within core shamanism, which is a very spirit-led paradigm, the aspirant seeks out (or is offered) initiations of various kinds and these are granted by the spirits - without these initiations, the student remains weak and powerless outside the small area of their own reality, and is unable to effect shifts on the mass-observed reality.

People too timid, too lazy or too fearful to seek these out automatically limit their own scope and power, just as me not wanting to take A-level physics automatically prevented me from ever being eligible to work on the Large Hadron Collider - it’s that simple.

So initiation that’s earned definitely has a major place within that spirit-led path, and that certainly affirms initiatory traditions as being valid, in terms of leading people from the beginning to a place of increased power - power that will neither be sought by, nor available to, all who happen to hear of it.

“Work Ethic”

Magickal power IS self-limiting, depending on what’s described at the foot of this page as the “work ethic” of the student, and the self-knowledge and altered sense of perspective that comes when magickal power increases can act as automatic “policing” factors to prevent certain personality types from ever acquiring real objective power - they tend to go crazy in a spiral of their own delusions.

With that said, what I saw in a prophecy years ago was that the human race had a choice to make: to continue to labour under the old model whereby humans huddle in fear, looking up to their “one true God” and its appointed heirarchy, which would lead to the destruction of this planet as we know it; or to literally seize the power of the gods themselves, primarily through magickal means that grant godlike skills and abilities, as well as changing our world through the understandings and changes that come along with possessing those abilities.

In this possible future (which I believe and am told is now happening) there are going to be tectonic shifts which may, in some ways, create a bit of chaos, as power falls into the hands of those who were previously powerless, and who have every bit of neediness, anger, and bile that state tends to create.

Some people will go crazy and use this stuff to hurt other people, which is probably what happened when we evolved to the point of using objects as tools and weapons; some people will hurt themselves and their loved ones, which is probably what happened when we discovered how to create fire - but overall, the progression will be forwards.

It seems to me that in the past, when any single human displayed some kind of supra-normal ability, no matter what their intention was, they became a centrepoint to be exploited by their hangers-on who rapidly created a cult that enforced rules and the kind of “us and them” thinking that E.A. mentioned in that video.

This often “coincidentally” resulted in the suppression of (or limited access to) the kinds of studies and practices that would permit other people to acquire and surpass those powers, and I think this pattern is the most toxic aspect of the whole deal.

You can be a good Christian who believes Jesus rose from the dead, healed the sick, and turned water into wine, but woe betide you if you dare study astrology, read omens (or create them through divinatory methods) etc. It’s fucked up!

The Key

If the key, as you described it, existed more readily, with open doors and clear explanations that are just out there (especially with the internet now in our lives) then the ability of those who want the power solely for themselves to enact that kind of suppression ceases.

And if the initiatory orders as they stand existed in a mileau whereby spirit contact was a regular thing, attainable through trainings (just like learning a new language or any other life skill), then their ability to inflict superstitious fear, or to decree who may and may not acquire power based on personal grudges etc., would also be diluted, whilst - this is important - not in any way taking away from the fact that true power is earned, and only falls into the hands of those who the spirits favour, and who’ve worked hard to get there.

The truest initiation into any level of power would be (will be) granted through the spirits and no longer a by-product of what social group, nation, or other arbitrary factor someone happens to be born into.

This is surely right and good, and something we all seek for ourselves?

And I hadn’t really though of it this way, but I do agree with E.A. that people who want magick kept secret - as a topic, like I said, I don’t mean necessarily every single working we do - are usually concerned about keeping other people from that power, and are less willing to slam the gates on their own continued education.

This is hilarious because the one thing every spirit I have so far come into contact with has tried to encourage, is the magickal and spiritual education and involvement of the human race, both individually (when I did a lot of healing work) and as a group, across and beyond ethnic and national boundaries.

They might guard some forms of work from those who can’t yet use them as the spirits think best, but overall I’ve never once in my entire life heard a spirit of any kind say to me, “This person should not do anything magickal/occult, let them eat cake and watch soap operas, and never once dare look outside the material realm.”

Risk

Finally, cars - the first ever fatality from a motor car in the UK was a Mrs Bridget Driscoll, and after her death, famously, the coroner told the inquest that he hoped hers would be the last death in this sort of accident.

Knowing what we do now about the increase in road-traffic fatalities in every nation since then, we can only laugh sadly at that comment - and then get in our own cars, assuming that while people die, it won’t be us, and while people kill, it won’t be us - it’ll be some other irresponsible or unskilled asshole. The cognitive disconnect comes about because we want for ourselves the vital freedom and power of being able to get behind the wheel and go where we wish, whenever we wish.

No-one I know who drives would wish, even if it saved thousands of lives per year, for humans to be denied access to motor vehicles, or for licences only to be awarded to some elite group of aristocrats, to save a little inevitable risk from creeping in.

But there’s another aspect to this - both in the UK & USA, after a steep increase to a high in the 1930’s and a similar peak in the 1960’s, road traffic deaths have fallen, on average, year on year.

These dangerous death machines we all selfishly want for ourselves but often assume “other people” can’t handle? “Other people” are getting better at controlling their vehicles, and the overall set-up of our society is making both cars and roads safer, because cars and the risks they bring are part of everyday life, so we vote with our wallets for safer vehicles, better training, better design of junctions, and so on.

The comparison with magick is plain - to hand a tool of power and freedom to people is to accept a risk, but having had that tool ourselves (like everyone who’s posted in this thread), our own actions state that we’ve judged that risk as appropriate for US, and I doubt anyone posting here would like it to be taken away just because a few people get burned - right? :wink:

Tl;dr version - initiations exist for various reasons, and are only completely invalid IMO when they stem from one person getting the power, then slamming the door on the next person coming up behind them.

Magickal power is innately self-limiting in most cases, to what the person is willing to put forwards by way of effort and sacrifice, and often requires the person leave behind dangerous and petty ways of thinking or acting that come from powerlessness.

No spirit has ever told me any human shouldn’t do magick.

People who think access to magickal knowledge is dangerous and should be limited should enact that ban on themselves first and foremost, if they wish to show integrity.

I disagree.
If we want to talk ATR’s, the primary reasons for initiation is the inherent social aspect of those religions (stemming from African society and manifesting there as the group celebrations and rituals whereby the spirits come down in full possession), the passing down of knowledge as well as humans can, and that certain people get initiated only because it is their “destiny” (for lack of a better word). A sincere, sane seeker will get no initiation if the spirits determine it is not their destiny. It’s not up to the priest to decide. It is the spirit’s choice, in EVERY ATR.

Aside from them, there are other traditions where initiation is necessary and not everyone is meant to get. Witchcraft, for example. The actual phenomena (not the general name for spellwork) of witchcraft is not meant for everyone. The thing nowadays to distinguish those who have the capacity for witchcraft and those who don’t is referred to as witchblood.

I don’t believe power should be arbitrarily turned away to anyone. Nobody is arguing that. Neither is anyone arguing that humans shouldn’t do magic. The basics should, and I will always argue this, always be available. That’s one of the few ways to get out the option to those who will take the journey find knowledge and power by their perseverance. What I don’t think should be exposed are the secrets and gnosis that are attained by the people who have gone beyond the basics, except where it is passed on from those trying to help and teach younger (I mean in term of years practicing and amount of gnosis achieved) occultists.
Magical knowledge IS dangerous. But it’s not humans, ultimately, who will limit it access to the secrets. It is the nature of the art itself. Those who can’t handle it will be led off (or even deceived) by the spirits or be victim to their own stupidity. And that’s what I was referencing in my initial post.

what do you mean by capacity? personality type? natural talent (or lack of it)? i seriously doubt anyone can look at a person or have a short conversation with them and see what that person is capable of with time and training. Personally i’ve seen no evidence that anything anyone can do is a “special gift” rather than them having a skill that can be learned by anyone else, sure some people are naturally more able in some areas than others but nothing is out of reach unless a person chooses not to gain the ability or they’re actively prevented from gaining that ability.

In reference to what, witchcraft? That is easily determined by the spirits, who are really the ones who grant initiation.

the criteria used for “deciding” if a person should be initiated or not, is it based on the person’s personality type? base level of aptitude? current level of intelligence? the mood of the spirit at the time? if it’s based on the level of intelligence/aptitude at the time then is it also subject to review at a later date to see if the person has gained the prerequisite abilities to be able to work in that system?

I have to admit this is the kind of knowledge, specifically the “gnosis”, that I feel the most protective of out of respect for the sanctity of the knowledge. I think an automatic safeguard is often present by default of the complexity of the knowledge itself. For example, someone with advanced mathematical skills in say, trigonometry, may be able to communicate and teach some of his knowledge and skills to someone with some working geometry and algebra knowledge, but the person who merely has basic addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division abilities is not going to have a clue with what to do with a trigonometry equation or even know what it means or symbolizes. In this case, the person with the trigonometry skills is the advanced mage, the lesser learned with algebra and what not is the advancing adept or mage but not as skilled or versed as the first. The last individual who can just do basic math is, of course, the muggle or the clueless wannabe who does not have the mental acuity to advance into the arts beyond the rudimentary trappings. I realize that magick and intelligence do not necessarily have to be mutually inclusive but it certainly helps. Furthermore, often the gnosis is unique information that is in turn processed by the person receiving it from his or her own unique perspective and filtered through his or her own knowledge bank, which makes the information itself wholly unique and possibly/probably original or one of a kind, which in turn potentially makes that piece of knowledge extremely valuable. . So to sum up my main point is I don’t necessarily see indiscriminately sharing sacred knowledge, or specifically the gnostic gold the fortunate seeker may receive, as being dangerous but just profane and sometimes disrespectful to the gift of information given in the transmission of the knowledge. But I know I’m preaching to the choir here as some have acknowledged there are things they have learned that they maintain essential secrecy with. For me it comes back to the “pearls before swine” metaphor, one of the few things Christ allegedly said that I actually like. “Pearls” of wisdom indeed.

In this case, the person with the trigonometry skills is the advanced mage, the lesser learned with algebra and what not is the advancing adept or mage but not as skilled or versed as the first. The last individual who can just do basic math is, of course, the muggle or the clueless wannabe who does not have the mental acuity to advance into the arts beyond the rudimentary trappings

Everyone starts out with no knowledge of anything, following your analogy calculus and trig are all based on those basics of addition subtraction multiplication snd division, the mental acuity of the student only decides the speed at which they can move from the basics to the advanced.

Thank you for elaborating and bringing more clarification to something I was trying to say. That also reminds me of another observation I meant to include in the last post and distracted myself from with other things I was saying. Yes, all of us start with the basics. To return to the math analogy, all of us have to learn numbers first, then how to count them. At that point we learn how to add and subtract these numbers and then once we have a grip on that we move on to multiplication and division. Those with the necessity or desire move on to higher math. Just for the sake of the metaphor let’s say algebra is the beginning of the higher math. Let’s call algebra beginner’s magick. There are going to be those who take to mathematics like fish to water, who seem to be naturally wired for it. Then there are going to be those who math does not come naturally to but they learn how to do the more advanced math regardless, again, for necessity or desire, through hard work and commitment. So most people probably could go higher up into the mathematical sciences if the WILL was there, even if it did not come easy or naturally, but they accomplished it through perseverance and dedication. I also think the same applies to magick, and that there are, like math, a minority of individuals who have a natural and innate ability and talent for it that the lion’s share of people do not and that these individuals are the ones who rise to become the specialists and best in the field because for whatever reason they have a natural advantage over the rest.